Apple Releases Boot Camp Beta

[840quadra]

1. Apple switches to Intel CPUs
2. Apple allows dual-booting instead of adding some kind of "Virtual PC" to Jaguar
3. Microsoft delays Vista... yet again
4. There's talks about cross-platform Vista/Jaguar development tools/APIs/etc

5. ...

6. There's no "Apple Mac OS X Jaguar" and no "Microsoft Windows Vista" coming, folks. There's a new Apple-Microsoft product called "Windows Jaguar" coming, though.

Yes - in an effort to kill Linux, Bill has signed a deal with Steve: Windows Jaguar will be Mac OS X in disguise and will run old Windows apps in Virtual PC (which they already own).

So yes, say good-bye to Mac OS X, in name. But also say good-bye to Windows for real, because only the name will be left.

Note: what you have read may or may not be facts and/or reality. But it's all technically possible. Read it with a 1Kg grain of salt.

FYI, the next edition of MacOS is said to be called Leopard, Jaguar was a few revisions back.

s: 10.0 Cheetah", March 24, 2001), 10.1 ("Puma", September 29, 2001), 10.2 ("Jaguar", August 13, 2002), and 10.3 ("Panther", October 24, 2003) ....ETC....


Unless you are talking about something else, if so I apologize.

 

[ncoffey]

ncoffey, why does your sig say: "Mac Mini 1.25GHz, iPod Nano 4GB, MacBook Pro 1.67GHz"?

There is no such thing as a MacBook Pro 1.67GHz.

Because I never bothered to update it to 1.83Ghz. I figured most people would either realize it and move on or be mildly amused at my sig.

 

[840quadra]

1. Apple switches to Intel CPUs
2. Apple allows dual-booting instead of adding some kind of "Virtual PC" to Jaguar
3. Microsoft delays Vista... yet again
4. There's talks about cross-platform Vista/Jaguar development tools/APIs/etc

5. ...

6. There's no "Apple Mac OS X Jaguar" and no "Microsoft Windows Vista" coming, folks. There's a new Apple-Microsoft product called "Windows Jaguar" coming, though.

Yes - in an effort to kill Linux, Bill has signed a deal with Steve: Windows Jaguar will be Mac OS X in disguise and will run old Windows apps in Virtual PC (which they already own).

So yes, say good-bye to Mac OS X, in name. But also say good-bye to Windows for real, because only the name will be left.

Note: what you have read may or may not be facts and/or reality. But it's all technically possible. Read it with a 1Kg grain of salt.

::EDIT:: Beaten to it, but anyway..

FYI, the next edition of MacOS is said to be called Leopard, Jaguar was a few revisions back.

s: 10.0 Cheetah", March 24, 2001), 10.1 ("Puma", September 29, 2001), 10.2 ("Jaguar", August 13, 2002), and 10.3 ("Panther", October 24, 2003) ....ETC....


Unless you are talking about something else, if so I apologize.

 

[Yvan256]

PPl still know OS x is a superior opearting system. No way in hell will I use XP as my primary os on my mac.

This is good because I dont have to buy or have a pc in my house and the occasional times I find myself needing to use a PC.

No, most people still think a Mac is an overpriced computer and that OS X is a toy copy of Windows. Some only remember OS 7/8/9 too, which doesn't help things.

People have to use OS X (and iLife, etc) to really understand what a Mac is. Allowing people to dual boot will help bring new potential switchers, but the price difference is still there. And no, people don't count software when they check price tags. A 400$ Dell is still cheaper than a 600$ Mac, no matter what comes with it (hardware or software). Not everyone understand hardware and software values.

My only fear about this "Boot Camp" thing is the end of OS X programs (especially games). Here's hoping Microsoft will jump on the occasion to make a low-priced "Windows Gaming Edition" (Windows XP with no software whatsoever, just enough to have Direct X and Windows Update running). It should also result in an extremely stable Windows gaming system since they can own every possible Mac to test their OS on it (unlike the mixed hardware mess that a regular PC can be, especially with 3rd party drivers).

 

[Phat Elvis]

Well, guess what is going to be the next move from Microsoft, which
is after all not completely stupid (should I say dumb ?) ...
They re going to release a version of Windows XP specifically tuned/optimized
for the Apple hardware Then they can sell Windows licences to the remaining 5 % of the population which is using Apple.
Starting today, Microsoft doesn t care anymore (if it ever did) about Apple taking market shares. An Apple hardware owner is now as good a customer to sell OS and softwares to, as a Dell or Hp or whatever.

I 100% agree. Microsoft could have gotten rid of Apple at any time. Now Microsoft can concentrate on software and Apple can make the hardware - along with the best OS. Both companies win. I don't know if we won yet...

 

[rayz]

The BSOD is still there. You just don't see it because the new default in XP is to reboot the machine immediately on BSOD. I've seen plenty of hard crashes on XP.

No it doesn't, and no you haven't ...

But thanks for the biggest online laugh today.

Windows cannot 'hide' a BSOD because all your apps would still crash.

And don't you think people would get suspicious of the cartoons to distract them while it reboots on the quiet ..... ?

I'm sure they can restart certain parts of the OS, but a complete reboot?!

Jeez, I understand your desire to 'big up' the Mac platform but COME ON!

 

[encro]

There's still danger: A virus in Win XP should be able to format your Mac Partition.

[update] I am not fast enough.

Not only formatting the partition but also potentially damaging the EFI information. There is the potential for someone to write a Windows virus specifically targetted towards doing harm to a EFI based Mac that may or not include code to mount a HFS+ filesystem to destroy the files on the OS X side of things.

Highly improbable but still a possibility...

 

[Yvan256]

Also, this is great for pro users who use Macs, but need Windows no matter what - web developers, for instance, who need to test compatibility of their sites on Safari and IE.

Nobody's going to reboot to see if a website works in IE. Virtual PC or similar is what's really needed for such uses.

Dual-booting is really annoying, in day-to-day usage. "Windows-in-a-window" or "Dual Desktops" is better (kind of like user switching, but you switch to your "Windows desktop" instead).

 

[alywa]

Well, Apple has just ensured that CS3 and Office do not get ported to x86 OSX at all. Why spend the money? Just release an XP version that the whole world can use. Very bad news indeed.

Again, if it is running in a virtual windows environment, does it matter? Performance will be the same.

Granted, a dual boot situation isn't graceful, but I'm sure this is just the beginning. I predict widows apps running at native speed seamlessly with 10.5. Just like rosetta, but without the performance hit due to the underlying intel x86 hardware.

This is not a bad thing. No more whining / waiting for Adobe / MS / etc to release the mac versions of their products. No more complaining about the lack of games for the mac.

 

[ncoffey]

When I try I get the message "Boot Camp Assistant cannot be used. You must update your computer's firmware before using this setup assistant."

Yes, I had read the instructions and search apple.com/downloads for firmware beforehand. Nada. Where did you get the appropriate firmware for you MacBook Pro? Or did later shipments have the updated firmware out of the box?

I downloaded the firmware update at:

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/

They have the firmware updates for all three at the top of that page right now. (Though that'll change with time for anybody reading this in several months)

 

[lietsche]

and what if MAC OS X could be installed without any hassle on a Windows desktop or any other Laptop which are way cheaper?

 

[xUKHCx]

or we could have the new stickers

 

[Diatribe]

Again, if it is running in a virtual windows environment, does it matter? Performance will be the same.

I for one don't want ****** looking UI design.

 

[gauchogolfer]

I think this might be a bad thing. It's already hard to get certain websites, software developers, IT departments, etc. to support the Mac platform. Now they have no reason to support us at all. They can just say, "Install Windows on your Mac!"

I disagree with this argument, because nothing has really changed. Yesterday, they could just have said "Buy a Windows box!". If you don't like it, support software developers and others who support the OS X platform.

 

[Aaon]

I guess I share the same concerns as others regarding this pretty amazing news. Will is lead developers to cionsider not creating a Mac version of their programs? Also, what does this signal as a future direction for Apple?

On a more practical note, I wonder if the drivers on the Apple disk allow you to see the HFS+ partition on the drive, and access the files. It's possible someone already mentioned this, but I got lost about 8 pages into this forum...

 

[Cooknn]

I'm not sure what will happen to OS X, but whatever takes place I'll run it 'till the day I die. You can pry the DVD from my cold dead hands™

 

[joepunk]

With all the excitement around I should probably take the day or afternoon off from classes. That's easy since I only have one class today and that's at 10am on Dinosaurs and Their Environment.

 

[cyberddot]

Ahem...cough...gag....Dude! I think I'm gonna sell my Dell!

This is fantastic news, or will be in a few days when I hear some positive reports about performance. Working with Windows in an IT job, my wife's need for a Wintel box to run certain specialized school software, and moonlighting work on even more Windows boxes prompted me to purchase a Wintel laptop a few months ago. What luck to have someone cooing in my ear about buying this Dell from me! Sure I'll shave a couple hundred, and have to shell out more money to get a MacBook, but...YEA!

Lets hear the good news about performance!

​

 

[tk421]

I can't believe it!

Well, I personally know three people I can talk into getting a Mac now. This is going to be interesting, to say the least.

 

[Diatribe]

As I said, I am not worried about speed or anything if they can truly virtualize Windows software in OS X 10.5 but what about the crappy UI most Windows apps have?
It'll feel and look like crap using those apps.

 

[milo]

Actually, the topic is Apple Releases Boot Camp Beta" not "Current Apple Stock Status" .

And the boot camp beta caused the price of apple stock to spike. There's a public reaction to the boot camp beta. That would be on-topic.

You're blaming the poster for not predicting that Apple would officially sanction running Windows on the Mac. How was he supposed to know this? And how can not predicting the future correctly make his decision "dumb"?

He chose obsolete hardware over the new stuff. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows there will be things down the road that will only work on the newer hardware. Even without this announcment I'd consider buying a G4 a dumb decision.

Well, I don't see BSOD's nor do I see spontaneous reboots, and I administer about 40 machines here. Am I doing something wrong?

Either you're lucky or you're just not seeing the reboots (users aren't telling you about them). Just because you haven't had crashes doesn't mean nobody else has them.

When I try I get the message "Boot Camp Assistant cannot be used. You must update your computer's firmware before using this setup assistant."

Yes, I had read the instructions and search apple.com/downloads for firmware beforehand. Nada. Where did you get the appropriate firmware for you MacBook Pro? Or did later shipments have the updated firmware out of the box?

It's all here: http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/

Versions for all three macs. I'd make sure you burn a firmware restore CD before doing anything, just in case.

if they were all smarter, how come they only have 5% market share?

Because of the stupid previous management. The market share drops were the result of bad decisions years ago. In the last year or two, market share has been going up, and this will likely help. Just look at all the non-mac boards discussing this. See all the "hey, now I can buy a mac" messages?

They can just say, "Install Windows on your Mac!"

To which you respond, "Screw you. You just lost my business to a competitor who supports OSX." They'll find this harder and harder to swallow as mac market share goes up.

Really? I am glad you said "Mac market share", not "OS X market share"...Mac MACHINES will sell like hotcakes...but I am not so sure about PROSPECTIVE Mac software...

I am still waiting for reasonable counter-arguments to my theory here...

Honestly, I don't think you are. They've been presented and you ignore them. Here's one. As Mac market share goes up (an assumption you agree with), people will buy OSX options whenever available. If company X only has a windows version, they will lose market share to company Y who has versions available for both platforms, assuming the apps are just as good.

When there's a balanced choice between versions, mac users will ALWAYS buy the OSX version. And when there's an OSX app that does everything the windows app does, mac users will generally buy that instead of booting into windows. If a company drops mac support or doesn't get into the mac market, they're just opening a big opportunity for another company to come along, release an OSX app and steal that part of the market from them.

Well, Apple has just ensured that CS3 and Office do not get ported to x86 OSX at all. Why spend the money?

Because customers will buy the OSX version, if they don't ship it they're throwing away sales.

 

[Haoshiro]

Service Pack 2 only........ What can you do if your PC came with XP SP1 on a CD? Nothing I guess?

You make a slipstream copy of your Windows XP CD with SP2 already applied!

It looks more complicated then it is... I've done it several times.

 

[duffman9000]

No it doesn't, and no you haven't ...

But thanks for the biggest online laugh today.

Windows cannot 'hide' a BSOD because all your apps would still crash.

And don't you think people would get suspicious of the cartoons to distract them while it reboots on the quiet ..... ?

I'm sure they can restart certain parts of the OS, but a complete reboot?!

Jeez, I understand your desire to 'big up' the Mac platform but COME ON!

By default, XP automatically reboots when a BSOD occurs. In fact, you don't even see the BSOD, but you know that it occurred because of the automatic reboot.
And yes, i've seen plenty of XP crashes. Heck, i've seen plenty of OS X kernel panics.

 

[MacQuest]

and what if MAC OS X could be installed without any hassle on a Windows desktop or any other Laptop which are way cheaper?

Then those people will just end up hearing that if Mac OS X is unstable on their peecee, it's their own fault since Mac OS X is designed for Macs.

Mac S X will undoubtedly still be far more stable than winBlows on that same peecee though.

I can see it now, "2 computers for the price of 1. A stable Mac and a crapeecee."

We'll let them choose which one is better.

 

[adroit]

I don't know if this question came up before and the thread is really long so I didn't bother going through the whole thing.

I find that Apple's solution in installing XP and the previous Californian hackers seems very similar (especially with pressing the down button thing when boot up). Does anyone also think that Apple might just buy out the hackers' solution and add drivers to it?

Anyhow, just a thought.