Apple Releases Mac OS X 10.5.8

[HyperZboy]

ALL they've done is rewrite the code to give a solid platform for their hardware platform going forward. That's it. It really doesn't affect your existing setup. About the only thing I can think of is latest software releases might not work but when you're talking a machine over three years old then compatibility of the latest software is always a little bit questionable. And considering that along with this update Apple have also issued security fixes for Tiger I'd suggest you have at least another year of support coming to you, if not more which would take you to your five year self-imposed limit.

Let me repeat what you said in simpler terms...

Major Bug Fixes for INTEL users who paid $129 for Leopard for just $29.

End of Major Bug Fixes for PowerPC users who paid $129 for Leopard at the same time.

But continued security fixes for Leopard just to prevent lawsuits basically.

And lets not get into the whole "new features that won't work on PowerPC" thing.
That's already been thoroughly debunked and some of Snow Leopards new features won't even work on INTEL graphics machines.

A previous poster summed it up best... There's no reason to upgrade your computer every 2-3 years anymore. We've topped out at 3Ghz basically. A new computer is not always significantly faster than the previous one. My Powermac G5s that are 3 years old are probably still faster than most of the Mac Minis ever made and will continue to be quite sufficient to do not just simple tasks, but even some complex ones.

Apple is abandoning at least one quarter to one third of their user base with Snow Leopard.

By the way, I didn't see any of the PowerPC issues I've had in the past few months addressed in 10.5.8. I file Safari 4.0.2 crash reports every couple days, so I doubt 10.5.8 is going to help, but we'll see. Firefox crashes too, but much more rarely and I use both at the same time often, so its a fair comparison.

 

[Arnenys]

All the code you need to make the OS work on PPC is just too much for an OS that wants to be fast and lightweight.

 

[Eidorian]

All the code you need to make the OS work on PPC is just too much for an OS that wants to be fast and lightweight.

You aren't using your PowerPC code when you're on Intel under Leopard. Lightweight? You mean lets take out the binaries for PowerPC and extol how much space you're saving?

 

[Blaat Mekker]

Installed 10.5.8 ok but now Time Machine has given up.
Displaying "preparing backup" for last 60 minutes.

Restarted iMac and TC with no effect.

As stated by me and others a couple of times you just need to let it go. It has to inspect your entire backup to figure out where it is and what to do next.

 

[HLdan]

Whoa whoa whoa....where is all this hate coming from...I was just making an analogy...

SL will actually run faster on older hardware than Leopard because of the refinements they've made to the code...I was just pointing out that Windows 7 with it's bloat will still run fine on my 7 year old hardware because 7 years is not THAT old for a computer...still better to upgrade than to run 7 on old hardware but I was just making an analogy.

Ha ha, no hate at all, I was actually defending your statement however if you want counter my defense to your post then by all means, you're hurting your own case.

But you sure like piping off information that is not remotely true. Electronics degree or no, it seems as if you are going off of knowledge you got back in college and are applying it to everything since then.

Thank you. Couldn't have said it better myself. HLdan is clearly missing the whole NT kernel switch... (i.e. 95/98/2000/ME ≠ NT, XP, Vista, Win7)

I see you like attacking people, good for you. You can't keep a civil argument. Oh, just to be clear, I was wrong when I mentioned that all versions of Windows since 95 have the Registry, Disk Defragmentation (automatic or not), DLL file system and ridiculous restrictions for file names?? Heck, I can't even create my own file name with a punctuation in it without Windows telling me to take a hike cause it won't accept it. If I'm wrong that those "FEATURES" mentioned exist I will accept you showing proof otherwise. I didn't mention anything about the NT Kernel. If you feel the need to defend the Windows honor on a Mac forum, by all means knock yourself out.

 

[satcomer]

I noticed a small instance of when I power on my Mac Pro the Time Capsule (also a connected USB drive) mount now with a Finder window open, after they 10.5.8 Combo update. They have never did that before through all the other updates. I know this is small and they mount fine but I just think this is odd.

 

[HLdan]

Apple is abandoning at least one quarter to one third of their user base with Snow Leopard.

Leopard is way too bloated as it is lot of other software Apple makes, Snow Leopard is a great move forward without the PPC code. 10.5.8 got Leopard running at it's best. Snow Leopard can only be better.

 

[satcomer]

After I installed 10.5.8 through software update, my screen resets to full brightness every time I restart. I have an iMac CD2 White Mid-2007. Anyone else having this issue right after the update?, I tried resetting the P-RAM but that doesn't work. Please help!

You posted this same info on many other web forums like AppleInsider. Do you realkly have a problem or are you just a spammer?

 

[satcomer]

hey guys how can i fix this problem, I updated to the new 10.5.8 last night and ever since that my macbook keeps disconnecting and sometimes reconnecting to the network ( sometimes i have to connect it again)

Boot into Safe mode and in there use Disk Utility and Repair Permissions. Then boot back into you regular account and it should be fixed.

 

[Eidorian]

I see you like attacking people, good for you. You can't keep a civil argument. Oh, just to be clear, I was wrong when I mentioned that all versions of Windows since 95 have the Registry, Disk Defragmentation (automatic or not), DLL file system and ridiculous restrictions for file names?? Heck, I can't even create my own file name with a punctuation in it without Windows telling me to take a hike cause it won't accept it. If I'm wrong that those "FEATURES" mentioned exist I will accept you showing proof otherwise. I didn't mention anything about the NT Kernel. If you feel the need to defend the Windows honor on a Mac forum, by all means knock yourself out.

Please tell me where your time machine is so we can go back and prevent this cruft from ending up in Windows in the first place.

Sadly, bills have to be paid and we can't really change what has been done. Users abandoned ship in OS 9 to OS X. I still see print shops and recording studios holding onto Mac OS 9 on the last Mirrored Drive Door on earth to keep using their Mac OS software because it won't work just right under the Classic environment.

The only real option Microsoft has today is to drag Windows forward with some more consistent release schedules with no more XP to Vista gaps. Developers need to be dragged kicking and screaming forward to let go of cruft and deprecate what they can. With their marketshare they can't decide to tell everyone too bad like Apple did.

Leopard is way too bloated as it is lot of other software Apple makes, Snow Leopard is a great move forward without the PPC code. 10.5.8 got Leopard running at it's best. Snow Leopard can only be better.

I'd like to know why Leopard is bloated. We live in the age of 500 GB notebook drives and multi terabyte desktop ones.

I mentioned it before but I don't see how you can extol dropping the PowerPC binaries and the space it saves. It's not terribly interesting to keep hearing the same Apple phrases parroted back.

300 new features!
64-bit this time!(Maybe)
h.264 on your Mac!

 

[nookster]

I've already noticed better memory management in this update.

Can you state an example?

After around 15 hours of uptime, Activity Monitor reports 160K worth of page outs and 5.11 MB worth of swap file, my swap file alone would normally be in three figures by now.

 

[Povilas]

You aren't using your PowerPC code when you're on Intel under Leopard. Lightweight? You mean lets take out the binaries for PowerPC and extol how much space you're saving?

That is not entirely true For one every time UB is executed the system checks for what code to execute and second even if you slim all application in the /Applications the Core System is still UB and there is a latency because of that.

 

[Eidorian]

That is not entirely true For one every time UB is executed the system checks for what code to execute and second even if you slim all application in the /Applications the Core System is still UB and there is a latency because of that.

I want those milliseconds back!

Even so I'm seeing many more applications go Intel-only and if you're lucky you get a PowerPC binary.

 

[HyperZboy]

That is not entirely true For one every time UB is executed the system checks for what code to execute and second even if you slim all application in the /Applications the Core System is still UB and there is a latency because of that.

None of these excuses or comments are valid reasons why Apple cannot compile a pretty similar version of Snow Leopard for POWERPC minus maybe 1 or 2 features. The idea that Snow Leopard could not possibly run on PowerPC Macs has been thoroughly debunked by tons of people smarter than me.
Some of SL's new features won't even run on many INTEL Macs!

Also, if history gives us any lessons, Apple most likely already HAS a POWERPC version of Snow Leopard. They had internal versions of MacOS X running for years on INTEL going back to Day 1 and nobody even had a clue about it!

Apple is just choosing not to test and release a PowerPC version and screwing over its longest most loyal customers, some of whom spent a small fortune on Apple equipment and won't be buying new computers in this bad economy as much as previously. I'm not replacing my G5s in this economy at this time. They are faster and more powerful than many INTEL Macs!

This idea that everyone is going to be tossing computers in the landfill every 3 years has got to end. Computers are slowly getting to point of being like cars and people will be increasingly keeping them longer because improvements are becoming so much tinier from year to year.

Apple should have stuck by its PowerPC customers who paid $129 for Leopard for one more version.

Making all these Snow Leopard BUG FIXES INTEL-ONLY is insulting to a large part of the Apple user base.

If Leopard is already so bloated, then Apple should fix it for BOTH INTEL and POWERPC!

We ALL paid the SAME $129!​

If 10.5.8 is the end of the road for Leopard, I think lots of Mac users are going to be pissed, not just me.

 

[Povilas]

I want those milliseconds back!

Even so I'm seeing many more applications go Intel-only and if you're lucky you get a PowerPC binary.

Milliseconds turn into seconds and those into minutes And it's not milliseconds by the way. The more space on the hard drive app takes the more time it takes to load it into memory, so leaving only Intel binary gains speed also

 

[HLdan]

That is not entirely true For one every time UB is executed the system checks for what code to execute and second even if you slim all application in the /Applications the Core System is still UB and there is a latency because of that.

Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself. That's exactly my point about Leopard being bloated. It's an excellent OS that runs good but not GREAT. Stacks in grid view is so poor in terms of how smooth it runs. I have a very fast Mac with an excellent GPU and in order to use Stacks without the jerkiness I just use List view. A friend of mine is a developer, he has the Developer preview of Snow Leopard installed on his iMac with a okay GPU, Stacks in grid view runs smooth as silk.

 

[Povilas]

Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself. That's exactly my point about Leopard being bloated. It's an excellent OS that runs good but not GREAT. Stacks in grid view is so poor in terms of how smooth it runs. I have a very fast Mac with an excellent GPU and in order to use Stacks without the jerkiness I just use List view. A friend of mine is a developer, he has the Developer preview of Snow Leopard installed on his iMac with a okay GPU, Stacks in grid view runs smooth as silk.

On my iMac 20" 2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM and 1 TB HDD Leopard runs great and stacks are smooth.

 

[Eidorian]

Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself. That's exactly my point about Leopard being bloated. It's an excellent OS that runs good but not GREAT. Stacks in grid view is so poor in terms of how smooth it runs. I have a very fast Mac with an excellent GPU and in order to use Stacks without the jerkiness I just use List view. A friend of mine is a developer, he has the Developer preview of Snow Leopard installed on his iMac with a okay GPU, Stacks in grid view runs smooth as silk.

That's PowerPC's fault, right?

 

[gusious]

Ok sorry about the time machine issue. As kbmb said it wanted a little more time than other times (1.5h) to proceed the "preparing for backup" step and back up 2GB confused:) of data.

 

[pprior]

Making all these Snow Leopard BUG FIXES INTEL-ONLY is insulting to a large part of the Apple user base.

If Leopard is already so bloated, then Apple should fix it for BOTH INTEL and POWERPC!

We ALL paid the SAME $129!​

If 10.5.8 is the end of the road for Leopard, I think lots of Mac users are going to be pissed, not just me.

I came late to the mac party - been a user for only 3 years and so was always on intel mac. I'm just wondering however - it seems to me that the number of PPC mac users at this point must be pretty small. If I had to guess, I'd guess maybe 10% of installed base. Anyone have a more specific number? just curious.

To me, I think ongoing support for an obsolete system is too much to ask past this point. Intel code should be optimized and resources martialed to that end, PPC is over, that's a simple fact.

 

[macintoshtoffy]

Same old arguments "get with the future hippy, PPC is for crustys" and crap like that

I have both Intel and PPC machines, and yet I'll be pissed off if SL is Intel-only. Why? Because it'll be a purely marketing decision*, a cynical exercise* to give a particularly loyal and existing customer base a kick up the backside that is neither deserved or warranted.

Thing is, there's no reason they can't make SL universal from a practical point of view. I could understand it if SL delivered the much-anticipated (why? I'm not sure) Marble interface or utilised Core Image in some new way, something that meant a PPC version was just not viable.

However, Snow Leopard is essentially just a streamlined version of Leopard, a leaner meaner greener OS (machine, sorry Mr Foreman please don't sue). Something you could argue that PPC users would benefit from more than Intel users in some respects.

That said, I expect it (Intel-only) because it reeks* of Apple 2009.

And your expertise in IT, Business, or programming is what....?

I suggest you read some of the absolutely stupid posts that were made 4 years ago - people with G5/G4 PowerMac's adamant that they were going to buy a new version with marginally better performance instead of waiting for the Intel Mac Pro.

Yes, there were some sane people who said, "no, I'm going to wait till the Mac Pro comes out, I don't want to be left with a lemon" but a large number insisted on purchasing PowerMac's.

How is it Apples fault that you and your ilk ignored conventional wisdom? Why does it make any sense for Apple to support a product that doesn't help their bottom line - they're a hardware company, not a charity. If they're selling a product, developing a product, improving a product, for computer that is dead - its a waste of resources and I'm sure their shareholders wouldn't be to happy.

Again, Apple is a business, not a charity. They aren't like the average US farmer who is swimming in agricultural subsidies because they can't run their business properly.

 

[macintoshtoffy]

I've had major problems with Safari 4 on my macbook pro. I first downloaded the beta and it just wouldn't work. I'd open the browser and the home page would load up fine, after that is when the problems would come. If I opened any other tabs and loaded a page, any page the browser would freeze. I couldn't close a tab and the tab I was on was completely unresponsive, if I tried to scroll, the bar would move but nothing would happen. tabs would freeze half loaded and in general it was pretty annoying.

I thought this was just a beta problem, but safari 4 ran fine on my mac pro.

I was still on 3 and pretty happy. But 10.5.8 has now upgraded my safari to 4 and it has the exact same problems. I've found an old dmg for 3, and I'm going to reinstall it after I take this MBP to the apple store (I also have a problem with writing DVD's so I figure I can have safari looked at then too)

What plugins or other 'enhancers' do you have installed? if 99% of people aren't having problems with Safari and you are - then what you should be doing is working out why it is happening rather than resorting to the installation of an unsupported version of Safari.

 

[macintoshtoffy]

Just expect some mayor problems due to gaping security holes. You have been warned.

I assume he wants the 'tabs at the top' - From what I have seen so far, Chrome apparently has plugin support, so it is just a matter of time (possibly months) before we see an official stable version released for Mac OS X.

 

[HLdan]

That's PowerPC's fault, right?

RIIGGGHHHT! That's exactly what I said. Okay, well I won't be replying to you anymore. I notice this in several posts across MR, I mistakenly get started with what seems to be a civil and fair argument only to be caught in your tangled web of fights.

 

[macintoshtoffy]

I have noticed slower speed with WiFi when running from the battery.

You've noticed and yet you haven't taken a hint one page back from a user who repaired is permissions, rebooted, and now working properly?

Does anyone read anyone elses post or is it just a giant echo chamber for people to yell into?