Apple Releases Mac OS X 10.6.1

[matticus008]

See, this is kind of the opposite of how the computer industry has operated for decades.

No, it's not.

There has never been any legitimate expectation for future upgrades unless explicitly promised at the time of sale.

Windows 95 didn't run on some systems less than 2 years old at the time of its release. Windows XP irrevocably broke plenty of up-to-date DOS-based applications (yes, they were still being updated, even in 2001). Symbian-based devices had all sorts of seemingly arbitrary cutoffs that didn't support devices still being sold at the time of a new release.

You have a selective memory. Backwards compatibility has never been anything other than a happy bonus, from any major vendor.

You CAN expect post-sale improvements, because of (bill gates voice)the magic of software.

No, you can't expect them. They often come, and companies make, unsurprisingly, a business decision about how much to invest in it. But that does not make a rational or legitimate expectation.

The computing industry has never conformed to your supposed MO. Hardware and software have always been at odds with each other in some way or another, because the "magic of software" can't overcome plain hardware limitations and changes.

People would pay a premium, expecting the computer to make it a little farther in to the future.

This statement makes absolutely no sense. Nobody paid a premium for future support commitments.

Or go Hackintosh.

...which wouldn't change a thing.

 

[AAPLaday]

Grrrrrr !


Installed ok, but Safari is now being a pain...

Was all running ok, I use bbc.co.uk as my homepage with my locale set it gives me local weather and news on the homepage. After the update It will not save my locale preference.. If I edit my locale it says that it is already set , but weather gives me London weather (300 miles away) and news just says "Set your location to receive local news". REALLY annoying !

Anyone know what might cause this? Was working perfectly well under Tiger, leopard 10.5.2 - 10.5.8 and Snow leopard 10.6.0..

Bri

This happened to me as well, i fixed it by going to BBC homepage and closing the weather section on it with the little cross at the top right. Then i selected reset homepage (at the top) and it now works for me

 

[50548]

Perfect example of the fanboi - dismiss the facts if they are not "pro-Apple", and attack the "troll" who dares to put facts on MacRumours....

Proof:

Ditto, you are the perfect example of a "fanboi" on the other side. At least Apple doesn't make you swallow 2 different kernels for the same OS or a billion different "marketed" versions like MS. And you what call "facts" is just your subjective appreciation of things, without any knowledge as to why Apple takes such technical or even business decisions for its consumer machines (the ones currently not able to use the currently-close-to-irrelevant 64-bit kernel).

So before you start spreading FUD and trolling your way around here again, here is some basic info from the very guy that released a freeware app to select the 64-bit Mac kernel:

Why would Apple do that?

The problem is compatibility with third-party drivers. Some programs are so deeply intertwined with the OS that they reach deeply into its bowels and modify its core, the kernel - these drivers are called kernel extensions (or kext).

Rule

A 32-bit processor can only run 32-bit stuff.
A 64-bit processor can run 32-bit and 64-bit stuff.
(stuff can be system, kernel, applications, drivers, etc)

So you need a 64-bit processor to run 64-bit anything

On a 64-bit processor:
A 32-bit Kernel can run both 32 and 64 bit applications.
A 64-bit Kernel can run both 32 and 64 bit applications.

A 32-bit Kernel can load only 32-bit kexts (kernel extensions).
A 64-bit Kernel can load only 64-bit kexts (kernel extensions).

If a program uses a 32-bit kernel extension (like the PC emulator VMware Fusion) then that extension will not run in a 64-bit kernel. So until they update their kext the program will not run if you start the kernel as 64-bit. However the program will run fine if the kernel stays 32-bit, even if the application itself is 64-bit)

The ability to start up with a 64-bit kernel (by holding 6 and 4 while booting) is meant for developer so they can start developing 64-bit kernel extensions. The average user never really 'needs' to be in 64-bit kernel - in fact, you wouldn't want to have a problem with your 32-bit kernel extension, would you?

So Apple leaves the kernel at 32-bit for now but includes the ability to start the kernel in 64-bit mode.

Unlike how other vendors have approached 64-bitness Apple's implementation will just work without worrying about whether you have 64-bit everything or not - just install and go ;-)

So if you really mean to be less of a hypocrite when participating in this forum, come back here when you have something positive to say about Apple. Otherwise just assume you enderlesque trolling position and stop pretending to have a "neutral" or "objective" approach to things.

 

[MrCrowbar]

Safari on Snow Leopard still gives me headaches. After a few minutes of surfing it's like the internet connection is interrupted. Reloading the page doesn't help, can't even open google in a new tab or anything. Always have to restart Safari.

Guess I'll have to use Firefox now :-(

 

[AidenShaw]

Apple doesn't make you swallow 2 different kernels for the same OS

The discussion is about the two different kernels for 10.6 - the x86 and x64 kernels....

...(the ones currently not able to use the currently-close-to-irrelevant 64-bit kernel).

Is a 15% performance boost between 10.6 x86 and 10.6 x64 "close to irrelevant"?

This graph is one of many from Mac OS X Snow Leopard — Performance, where they reach the conclusion that:

Apple’s decision to default Snow Leopard into 32-bit-kernel mode is a losing proposition for most photography related applications: boot into 64-bit mode if you don’t have any hardware/software that precludes it.​

The only FUD is that the x64 kernel is "close to irrelevant". The performance benchmarks are showing that claim is false.

 

[*LTD*]

Hehe . . . I can tell I'm in 64-bit mode by the fact that my mouse is so slow. Steermouse isn't 64-bit yet. 64-bit version scheduled for sometime this month. I haven't tested other aspects yet. Printer is working fine, though.

 

[mrcmosx]

anyones update for 10.6.1 like 10 megs? i have the newest mac mini and had done all updates prior to new release

 

[*LTD*]

anyones update for 10.6.1 like 10 megs? i have the newest mac mini and had done all updates prior to new release

~ 9mb here, for an early 2008 MacBook Pro, 15-inch, 2.4ghz, w/4gb RAM.

 

[*LTD*]

The discussion is about the two different kernels for 10.6 - the x86 and x64 kernels....




Is a 15% performance boost between 10.6 x86 and 10.6 x64 "close to irrelevant"?

This graph is one of many from Mac OS X Snow Leopard — Performance, where they reach the conclusion that:

Apple’s decision to default Snow Leopard into 32-bit-kernel mode is a losing proposition for most photography related applications: boot into 64-bit mode if you don’t have any hardware/software that precludes it.​

The only FUD is that the x64 kernel is "close to irrelevant". The performance benchmarks are showing that claim is false.

FWIW, here's the conclusion. To be fair, booting into 32-bit by default was a decision made, it seems, from a drivers perspective. Although I'm not sure the average user can easily figure out that they're in 32-bit mode, or that you need to hold down 6 4 during reboot. In any event, moving from 32-bit to full 64-bit was a tricky propostion all around. Shades of the move from OS 9 to OS X. Not every app will take advantage of 64-bit (a quick glance at the Activity Monitor will show this), and not all drivers will work right away (such as Steermouse.) Thankfully, printing seems unaffected (Brother laser printer using Leopard drivers from the Brother website. Fully-featured, too.)

I find it a bit odd, though, that access to 64-bit is achieved via such an obscure method. Why not a simple prompt at boot-up that can be toggled on/off via the Sys Prefs once the user has settled on their environment of choice? Why all the holding down 6 4 hocus-pocus?

Is there anyway to automatically boot into 64-bit all the time?

----------------------------------------


Conclusions

Snow Leopard booted into the 32-bit kernel is always faster than Leopard, with fair to substantial gains, depending on the application.

But Snow Leopard booted into the 64-bit kernel shows a consistent performance advantage over Leopard, and even more advantage over 32-bit Snow Leopard as well. Performance gains of up to 30% were observed, making Snow Leopard by far the best value for the money in a long, long time. At about $25 , you won’t find a more compelling upgrade of any kind, anywhere.

Apple’s decision to default Snow Leopard into 32-bit-kernel mode is a losing proposition for most photography related applications: boot into 64-bit mode if you don’t have any hardware/software that precludes it. See the software and hardware compatibility pages. Remember too that you can reboot to switch between 32-bit and 64-bit mode should you have programs or hardware that you need only sporadically.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Proof:

Likewise, Unibody Macbooks from last fall have the same motherboards as the Unibody Macbook Pros, but Apple won't allow normal Unibody Macbooks to boot into 64-bit mode. I hope 10.7 isn't 64-bit only, because Apple might be telling me right now that I'm screwed. And for those of you saying "64-bit doesn't matter," I would appreciate all the performance gains I can get to extend the life of my hardware. It's why I have my RAM maxed, an Intel SSD, etc. I also do some graphical design, which could always use a little boost, no matter how great one's hardware is.

And one thing I would like to correct about my problems with 10.6.1 that I posted yesterday: It's activating Spaces that makes all the windows fly off the screen, not Expose. And all my problems are fixed by unplugging and replugging in my Mini-Displayport cord every time my computer wakes up from sleep. Annoying, but worth it to get things working again.

 

[pizzacake]

Installed 10.6.1 on my 2.4GHz C2D iMac ~70 MB and on my 1.8GHz CD MacBook ~ 8 MB. Can't say I've noticed any performance difference on either since 10.6.1 from a clean install of 10.6. The only regression I've noticed since 10.5 is expose being choppy with 8 or more windows and other rare minor graphical glitches on my MacBook with Intel GMA 950 graphics, no problems noticed on my iMac with ATi 2600HD. Expose is still choppy on my MacBook with 10.6.1.

 

[AidenShaw]

Conclusions

Snow Leopard booted into the 32-bit kernel is always faster than Leopard, with fair to substantial gains, depending on the application.

But Snow Leopard booted into the 64-bit kernel shows a consistent performance advantage over Leopard, and even more advantage over 32-bit Snow Leopard as well. Performance gains of up to 30% were observed, making Snow Leopard by far the best value for the money in a long, long time. At about $25 , you won’t find a more compelling upgrade of any kind, anywhere.

Apple’s decision to default Snow Leopard into 32-bit-kernel mode is a losing proposition for most photography related applications: boot into 64-bit mode if you don’t have any hardware/software that precludes it. See the software and hardware compatibility pages. Remember too that you can reboot to switch between 32-bit and 64-bit mode should you have programs or hardware that you need only sporadically.

This is the complete "conclusions" section of the Mac OS X Snow Leopard — Performance article, which I quoted a sentence from earlier....

(*LTD* didn't make it obvious which part was quoted...)

Is there anyway to automatically boot into 64-bit all the time?

Check out the article Mac OS X Snow Leopard — Booting into 64-bit mode for a couple of ways to do this. This is a link in the performance article.

 

[*LTD*]

This is the complete "conclusions" section of the Mac OS X Snow Leopard — Performance article, which I quoted earlier....

(*LTD* didn't make it clear which part was quoted...)




Check out the article Mac OS X Snow Leopard — Booting into 64-bit mode for a couple of ways to do this. This is a link in the performance article.

From the same article, near the end:

If this makes you nervous, it should. This is the method I use, because I can leave it set the way I want to; having to hold down '6' and '4' keys at startup is absurd, it’s ridiculous that Apple did not provide a system preference pane for this.

As much as I love Apple and as much as I understand their concerns about drivers and the welfare of the average user, I have to agree with this. We've got a fully 64-bit OS, the performance gains of which far outclass the previous iteration of the OS, as well as the 32-bit mode of this OS, yet Apple has rendered the accessibility of all these gains a real pain. It's easy to hold down 6 and 4 but why should you? Give the user some graphical representations in the form of on-screen options at boot or at least a prefs pane, with some simple options to choose the operating environment of preference. This isn't "experimental" 64-bit. It's mainstream. Isn't that the whole point?

 

[Eric S.]

. . . Apple won't allow normal Unibody Macbooks to boot into 64-bit mode. I hope 10.7 isn't 64-bit only, because Apple might be telling me right now that I'm screwed.

And if that is the case, don't complain on MacRumors unless you're prepared for a ton of comments like this: "Stop whining. You knew this day was coming. You shouldn't expect a system to last more than three years. Get over it. You can't live in the past forever. You should have been saving up for a new system anyway."

 

[DMann]

Is there anyway to automatically boot into 64-bit all the time?

There's an app for that: 32 or 64 bit Kernel Startup This is much more convenient than aforementioned solutions, as it functions as well as a Preference Pane.

 

[Eidorian]

There's an app for that: 32 or 64 bit Kernel Startup This is much more convenient than aforementioned solutions, as it functions as well as a Preference Pane.

It really should have been a radio button in the Startup Disk System Perference pane. A nice little warning about what you're about to do would be nice.

Of course it would only be available on machines that are capable. Still Apple should have made it capable on all 64-bit machines.

 

[DMann]

It really should have been a radio button in the Startup Disk System Perference pane. A nice little warning about what you're about to do would be nice.

Of course it would only be available on machines that are capable. Still Apple should have made it capable on all 64-bit machines.

One would imagine that they soon will, once most, or all, of the driver issues have been solved.

 

[Eidorian]

One would imagine that they soon will, once most, or all, of the driver issues have been solved.

I don't have much hope but I know it's possible. The new GMA X3100 driver under 10.6.1 is a mess.

 

[djellison]

The one and only benefit I'd had with SL, was that with a nice clean install, Safari had stopped crashing several times a dat.

Now - with 10.6.1 - normal Leopard performance has been restored and it's crashing again.

AWESOME.

 

[*LTD*]

There's an app for that: 32 or 64 bit Kernel Startup This is much more convenient than aforementioned solutions, as it functions as well as a Preference Pane.

Aha! Thank you!

 

[AidenShaw]

I hope 10.7 isn't 64-bit only, because Apple might be telling me right now that I'm screwed.

I would be very surprised if 10.7 isn't x64-only. Microsoft has stated that Windows 7 client is the last version of Windows that will support x86 systems (Windows 7 Server, formally known as "Windows Server 2008 R2", is x64 only). Apple can't be perceived as being behind Microsoft in cleaning out old cruft.

I would also be surprised if the outrage over the lack of 64-bit support in 10.6 for x64-capable processors doesn't force Apple to update all C2D and Xeon systems with EFI64 firmware (after all, the "E" in "EFI" means "Extensible") and/or provide x64 driver support. It's simply inexcusable for Apple not to support the x64 kernel on Apple systems with x64-capable processors.

By the way, for all the people who criticize Microsoft for having an x86 DVD and a separate x64 DVD - for the next version of Windows it will be very simple for Microsoft to go x64-only - they don't need to make the x86 DVD. Since x86 and x64 are co-mingled on the Apple DVD, it won't be as simple to drop x86 support.

 

[Eidorian]

By the way, for all the people who criticize Microsoft for having an x86 DVD and a separate x64 DVD - for the next version of Windows it will be very simple for Microsoft to go x64-only - they don't need to make the x86 DVD. Since x86 and x64 are co-mingled on the Apple DVD, it won't be as simple to drop x86 support.

Windows 7 has x86 and x64 on the same disc. We've been over this.

 

[PurrBall]

Windows 7 has x86 and x64 on the same disc. We've been over this.

No, it doesn't.

 

[Eidorian]

No, it doesn't.

Can you provide proof?

 

[AidenShaw]

Windows 7 has x86 and x64 on the same disc. We've been over this.

No, it doesn't.

Can you provide proof?

We'll need to wait until later in October to answer this one....
_________________

The current .ISO files for the final Windows 7 kits on the Microsoft web sites have separate .ISO files for x86 and x64. Each easily fits on a single layer DVD.

Microsoft has shipped "combo" DVDs in the past that have included multiple DVD releases on one disc (the disc uses something like hard links so that only one copy of a file is on the DVD, even though each of the several kits on the DVD seems to have its own copy).

Whether it is shipped on one physical disc or two - it's logically two discs, there would be a boot-time menu to select the x86 or x64 kit.

While it seems clever that Apple is able to select x86 or x64 at boot time (whereas Windows requires one to install both systems and dual-boot between different partitions), the Windows approach is cleaner. There is no need in Windows to compromise anything for 32-bit compatibility - Windows x64 is true 64-bit top-to-bottom.