Apple Releases New 15" MacBook Pro, Updates 17" MacBook Pro

[Evangelion]

Well, with the loss of the ExpressCard slot there is now no way to upgrade a machine that was already limited simply by being a laptop.

People who used the slot to upgrade their machines were few and far between. and you CAN still upgrade the machine. You can add RAM, you can add a bigger HD....

An SD card slot can be done with an ExpressCard reader or a USB dongle (who uses those anyway?

That's one additional gizmo to carry around. And using those gizmos and dongles eats in to the battery.

Now, instead of a versitile slot that....

....no-one used....

we get a small memory card slot most people really don't need to begin with.

I bet the card-slot gets 10 times more use than the ExpressCard-slot did.

Apple says we don't need Clones/OSX licensing and assures us they can meet the needs of their users, but look what happens.

So what exactly DID happen? A noisy minority lost a feature? Of course Apple can't cater to the whims of every single user out there. If you feel that their systems are not suitable for you, feel free to look elsewhere.

This reminds me of the switch to Intel. Some people vowed to never buy a Mac again. Fast forward a bit, and Macs are more popular than ever before. It seems that there is a minority out there that will complain about EVERYTHING. Every change is fatal and ensures the utter doom of Apple. Yet for some reason Apple marches from victory to victory.... Maybe, just maybe, Apple knows about laptops and needs of people more than Joe Q. Random on some website?

It IS funny to read the comments that basically say "I never used ExpressCard-slot, but you can pry it from my cold dead hands!"

 

[ortuno2k]

The biggest disappointment about these new MBP's is the lack of a dedicated video card on the 15" models and the removal of the express card slot. I've never used mine, but I'm sure there are more options with the express card slot than the sd card slot.
Anyways, still not exciting enough for me to upgrade my existing, previous-gen 15" MBP from early '07.
I'll be picking up 10.6 on release day, though.

 

[Anuba]

And what is it about the ExpressCard-slot? No-one used it. Well apart from the noisy minority who will keep on bitching and moaning about it for months to come. They act like the loss of the slot is the end of the world as we know it, when the fact is that the people who really need it are few and far between.

It's a disposable feature for most users, I agree. For the ones who do rely on it, it's essential. Laptop based musicians belong in that category, and here's why: Firewire audio interfaces own that market, and low-latency firewire audio is extremely sensitive. You need to have it on a separate firewire bus. If you try to run an external firewire drive and an external fw audio device on the same bus, the audio will start breaking up, stuttering, glitching and acting generally crazy. Plugging an extra fw adapter into the ExpressCard slot solves this. Especially if it has a Texas Instruments chipset (the AGERE chipset they've resorted to using on MBP's is notoriously crappy for audio work).

On the other hand... These musicians can still get an MBP 17" with ExpressCard. "But it's so big, it's not portable enough!" Well, your rig isn't very portable to begin with, is it? Let's see, you have a laptop, an external fw disk, an external fw audio interface, a thingamabob sticking out of the ExpressCard slot, a MIDI controller keyboard, headphones and/or monitor speakers -- that's a whole suitcase of stuff right there, and you're complaining about the MBP 17" being too big? Hey, at least you get more screen real estate. If you're working with DAW apps that eat pixels for breakfast on a cramped 13" or 15", you've got your priorities all wrong.

 

[Evangelion]

It's a disposable feature for most users, I agree. For the ones who do rely on it, it's essential.

If they really, really, REALLY need it, they could buy a 17" MacBook pro

On the other hand... These musicians can still get an MBP 17" with ExpressCard.

Exactly. ExpressCard is still available from Apple. This really is a storm in a teacup. people who REALLY need ExpressCard-slot, can buy a computer from Apple that has it.

 

[SeaFox]

People who used the slot to upgrade their machines were few and far between. and you CAN still upgrade the machine. You can add RAM, you can add a bigger HD....

That hardly does anything about missing ports. ESATA is taking over for external drives, and there's no way to hook one up to a Mac laptop right now. And haven't I seen a fiber channel expansion card somewhere?

That's one additional gizmo to carry around. And using those gizmos and dongles eats in to the battery.

Yeah, hence I just use my camera's USB cable. Camera powers itself for uploading, not the laptop. Now we have a slot even fewer people have use for (remember, since you can get a SD card reader for an ExpressCard slot, anyone who finds the SD slot useful had a use for the ExpressCard slot. The inverse, however, is not true.)

So what exactly DID happen? A noisy minority lost a feature? Of course Apple can't cater to the whims of every single user out there. If you feel that their systems are not suitable for you, feel free to look elsewhere.

I already did. I got a new computer a couple months ago, I could have bought a Mac, instead I built a Core i7 tower. When OSX starts supporting the Core i7 I'll prollly make it a Hackintosh. I'll have a Mac faster than anything Apple will be offering at that time (knowing how Apple is slightly behind the time in hardware) and have spent a fraction of the price for a Mac Pro.

It IS funny to read the comments that basically say "I never used ExpressCard-slot, but you can pry it from my cold dead hands!"

You never know what you'll need until the day comes sometimes. That's what "buying for the future" is about. It's a fairly common idea in computer buying, might want to look it up. Lots of people don't have an immediate use for their extra memory slot in their laptop or PCI slot in their desktop. Using your logic we should just remove those slots and let them buy an entire new PC when they realize they need more RAM or need a NIC card because their motherboard's port went out.

 

[Evangelion]

That hardly does anything about missing ports. ESATA is taking over for external drives, and there's no way to hook one up to a Mac laptop right now.

Yes there is. 17" MBP still has your precious ExpressCard-slot....

Now we have a slot even fewer people have use for (remember, since you can get a SD card reader for an ExpressCard slot, anyone who finds the SD slot useful had a use for the ExpressCard slot. The inverse, however, is not true.)

Card-readers cost money and they are additional gizmo to carry around.

You never know what you'll need until the day comes sometimes.

So, by that logic the MBP should have every single port and expansion imaginable in it? Why aren't you whining because it doesn't have RS-232-port? Hey, you never know when you might need one.... It also does't have dual-ethernet, VGA, DVI, S-Video, RCA, HDMI... I mean, you never know when you might need one of those, right? We have to "prepare for the future".

Using your logic we should just remove those slots and let them buy an entire new PC when they realize they need more RAM or need a NIC card because their motherboard's port went out.

Using your logic we should be whining here because Macs don't come with every single port and expansion imaginable.... I still remember the whining when people realized that iMac didn't have a floppy-drive in it....

 

[Esrb99]

Yes there is. 17" MBP still has your precious ExpressCard-slot....

well, I was all up and ready to preorder a 15" mbp- stoked about the new ram limit, and additional sd port, till I noticed the lack of expresscard. I recently joined the Apogee camp with the Mobile Symphony- 32 track ad/da conversion in one simple slot, and it's been perfect with my current 15".

what I need is portability and power, and the ability to use this thing- fw doesn't get me less than 2 ms delay when tracking, expresscard apogee does. the way my rig is set up now for mobile, I would need to upgrade my mobile laptop desk, external monitor cable, and still not be able to get as good a performance delay-wise from a new machine versus my '08 old mbp.

 

[xhambonex]

Yes there is. 17" MBP still has your precious ExpressCard-slot...

But its a limited use feature. That's all really. It hurts because Apple isn't exactly adding features to their PRO notebook line, they are simply generalizing for what the average consumer would want. And that's fine from a business point of view, but it sucks for those of us who still want to buy high end Apple notebooks. Its not just the expresscard slot either, its a pattern Apple has started. And it began with the glass in front of the screen.

My printer has all the media card readers in it, I still have yet to use any of them when I can simply plug my camera into my computer. I don't use an expresscard slot either. But if I was going to want one card reader in this laptop I would probably want the one with the most versatility.

None of it matters anymore, its done. But notice how everyone complained enough about no FW on the 13" UMB (now UMBP) and it has that feature now. So I will just sit back and wait until Apple makes a different notebook.

 

[Anuba]

It IS funny to read the comments that basically say "I never used ExpressCard-slot, but you can pry it from my cold dead hands!"

Then again we don't know if the chicken or the egg came first. In other words, are features redundant because Mac users don't use them much, or are they not using them much because people who need a wide spectrum of connectivity/expandability have long since moved on from Macs?

I mean, Apple make really nice hardware from an aesthetical point of view, and the build quality is above average... but the range of options, ports and other things that many people expect from professional machines is quite laughable. For example, if you look at Dell's professional 17" laptop offering, the Precision M6400, you have a choice of 4 different screens, up to 16 GB RAM, 2 hard drives (optional RAID 0 or 1), dual or quad CPU, discrete GPU with up to 1 GB RAM, optional docking station, fingerprint reader, ExpressCard and PCMCIA and 8-in-1 card reader for all memory card flavors including SD, 4 USB ports, firewire, eSATA etc etc etc etc. In order to find a Dell with as few build to order options as you have on the flagship MacBook Pro, you have to look at an entry-level netbook in the sub $500 range. I guess that's what Schiller means when he says the MBP's are "sooooooo far ahead of everything else on the market".

If things like that matter to you, chances are you skipped Macs altogether, and therefore you're not a Mac user, and neither are people with the same priorities as yours... I mean, you could acquire any result with that method. Apple could remove the keyboard from all their laptops, then say "our numbers show that only a handful of our users (all three of them) want a keyboard, so we're now removing the keyboard from all our computers".

 

[abergou]

Sorry, just can't understand why you'd pay a premium for a Bluray disk and then watch it on a laptop... With many HD disks offering the iTunes version of the movie for download w/ code or DVD in the case, I'm even more at a loss as to why so many people (not just you mdntcallr) see this as an issue..

As far as burn/authoring support, yes, I'm shocked that Apple hasn't offered support..

Because only a very small subset of movies offer a digital copy or a DVD with the purchase and I don't want to purchase movies twice and yet I want to watch them on the road.

 

[akakillroy]

Being a long time windows based PC user I have had a number of laptops (lost count actually), and now I am a 3 year Mac user. I use windows based workstations and administrate windows based servers at work. With that said I have to say I can see where not having the Baskin Robbins options on the Mac can be a turn off for some, but in all reality how much do you use them. I can count on one had how many times I needed a "special" type of connection on my MacBook Pro and I found a USB version and was set. I am beginning to believe that those who complain about what the Mac's are and are not, are those who either have never own a Mac, or would rather have a Mac but didn't buy one for one reason or another. Or they are observers criticizing something they have never put their hands on. I am on my 2nd MacBook Pro and I have all Mac's in my home now and have turned others to Mac as well, never heard a single complaint for them. In the end, it is preference and need, in either case there are always options and solutions, Laptop/notebooks were designed and built to be portable don't forget that.

 

[macshill]

WHy? what is the point having bluray on a 15" laptop that doesnt support the screen resolution 1080p that would take the most advantage of bluray, your better off ripping or re-encoding a bluray movie and putting it on your hd for when you are traveling, who wants to carry around 3 bluray discs, when you can reencode them at the highest quality and put them on your hd, there is a reason that mac isnt going to bluray and that is cause the future is digital media not discs of any kind....

I think it's the incredible amount of data storage that makes Blu-ray better to adopt sooner rather than later.

 

[jmpage2]

You may have better luck if you called Apple's customer relations department.

Do you have a number for them?

 

[DoFoT9]

I think it's the incredible amount of data storage that makes Blu-ray better to adopt sooner rather than later.

yes people seem to forget that BD is also a STORAGE MEDIUM and in the near future will be able to store 200gb on a single disk (imagine burning that all at once but haha, would take a few days). makes for great backups - simple and easy to transfer.

 

[macshill]

So, I was completely and utterly right. I wrote this back in February.

All kneel before me

Will have the option of spit or swallow.

 

[polaris20]

The only reason Apple's % of laptop sales within the company ( laptops vs desktops ) is the highest in the industry is because Apple doesn't even SELL an affordable midrange tower. If they did, I'd buy one.

Nice logic there. Someone's looking for a desktop, Apple doesn't offer it, so they buy a laptop? That makes no sense whatsoever.

If anything they'd buy an iMac (which is a laptop with a desktop screen and hard drive) or a Windows PC.

If they're looking for a non-portable, they're not going to buy a portable unless there's a special sale or deal on one.

 

[LelandHendrix]

I was just on a conference call this morning about a shoot next week, and we need to take a fw400 cable from a camera, to the mac, and write off to a a firewire 800 drive. Well thanks apple for making sure that the new way of production being done on set must be done with a laptop 2 generations old. Oh I mean sure I guess I could lug around the 17-inch, but that's a desktop replacement, not a true laptop, and not nearly as convenient to use as my old 15 that has all the connection I need. Looks like no new laptop for ma again!

I honestly cannot understand all the bellyaching about the firewire!

The need you described has a very easy solution. I work in production audio / video (mostly audio) and was uneasy at first but for absolutely no reason.

You can go from the drive to the camera, and camera to mac with daisy-chaining--which IMO was the greatest thing about firewire in the first place.

But, barring whatever problem you may have with that, you can easily grab a firewire hub.

What made me switch in the first place was being able to use my motu firewire equipment with 48v phantom-powered mic preamps while running ONLY on the laptop's battery. The firewire bus's power is enough to give me 24 channels of audio i/o and that power keeps coming when the power is unplugged.

NOTHING could be sweeter.

 

[Setsuna F Seiei]

Sold!!!

I'll buy one for my Technical Management degree coursework this summer and fall.

 

[niuniu]

Why? What would getting the used laptop give you, as opposed to getting anew one? It seems to that you are thinking that the 15? MBP lost the dedicated GPU entirely. it didn't, only the low-end model did.

Before this update, the cheapest 15" MBP cost $1999 and it had a 9600M GT. Now, you can spend the exact same amount of money and get a 15# MBP that has 9600M GT, along with host of improved specs. IN ADDITION, there's now a cheaper model available, that only has 9400M.

So what exactly am I missing here? before, it cost you $1999 to get 9600M GT, today it costs $1999 to get 9600M GT. What exactly has changed?

In the UK the MBP with the GT was 1,399 GBP, now it's 1,499 GBP..

 

[LelandHendrix]

well, I was all up and ready to preorder a 15" mbp- stoked about the new ram limit, and additional sd port, till I noticed the lack of expresscard. I recently joined the Apogee camp with the Mobile Symphony- 32 track ad/da conversion in one simple slot, and it's been perfect with my current 15".

what I need is portability and power, and the ability to use this thing- fw doesn't get me less than 2 ms delay when tracking, expresscard apogee does. the way my rig is set up now for mobile, I would need to upgrade my mobile laptop desk, external monitor cable, and still not be able to get as good a performance delay-wise from a new machine versus my '08 old mbp.

I want to hold back my belief that <2 ms delay is impossible except when live monitoring, in which case my MOTU offers 0ms delay in use with my 15" MBP's integrated FW controller for monitoring (because it's an on-board analog summation of incoming audio), so can you point me to any information that suggests this?

I, BTW, am a big believer in expresscard because of the audio production hardware advantages.

And for other reasons... because you can turn an expresscard slot into a card reader, but you can't turn a card reader into anything.

Oh, and for whoever it was that said a USB dongle for an SD would use up the battery--thanks for the belly laugh! SD reader dongles DO NOT USE BATTERY, and really neither would a card reader! What that poster neglected to realize is that Apple ADDED A CARD READER, which would pull the same amount of current whether it is located inside the computer or external.

 

[mach0024]

which one to buy

Guys,

I need your help. I plan to buy a MB or even a MBP. But since this upgrade yesterday I am completely unsure what to do. I am not too familiar with that 9400 graphics issue and I don't care about the SD, Express slot or whatever.

I like to have 4GB of Ram and I don't care if it is 13 or 15 inch display. I would use it for office stuff, surfing the web, website creation, mp3 and pictures....

So which one would you pick? What's the best deal?

I know, not an easy question but just hit me with some ideas.

Thanks in advance
m

 

[AidenShaw]

I...but you can't turn a card reader into anything.

Oh really?

 

[Setsuna F Seiei]

Guys,

I need your help. I plan to buy a MB or even a MBP. But since this upgrade yesterday I am completely unsure what to do. I am not too familiar with that 9400 graphics issue and I don't care about the SD, Express slot or whatever.

I like to have 4GB of Ram and I don't care if it is 13 or 15 inch display. I would use it for office stuff, surfing the web, website creation, mp3 and pictures....

So which one would you pick? What's the best deal?

I know, not an easy question but just hit me with some ideas.

Thanks in advance
m

I'm in the exact same situation as you are--I don;t plan on playing games on my MBP either, this will be mainly for my college courses, iTunes, iPhoto, email, Safari, and probably Office (since I am studying to become an IT Manager). Go with either the 13 or 15 inch MBP and add more RAM--4GB will be great, especially once Snow Leopard comes out. And don;t forget your student discount if you can use one.

 

[xonomox]

Nice

The 15" MBP with the 9600 went up $100 here in Canada, up to $2299 from $2199, thanks apple! (idiots)

 

[mus0r]

Firewire devices can be daisychained, so one port is plenty.

You obviously don't know that most digital audio gear aimed at portability is BUS POWERED or has only ONE PORT, making daisy chaining impossible or buggy as hell.

I use an Apogee Duet. One port.
I also use a Focusrite Liquid Mix, which requires its own bus (per the manufacturer) because it draws a low of power.

If I bought a new 15" MBP, I'd be SOL.