No I'm not. The naysayers, nervous nellies, and lack of role models did not stop the men who invented the aviation industry. Women should do no less.
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Yup, I agree with you on that, but at the end of the day it's still their choice. There is a difference between discrimination and harrasment at work and females not having proper role models.
As an airbulance pilot I worked with male nurses and they would always get teased about their profession. First time I met one he called himself a murse but he never complained that he was discriminated against.
How can you have a role model for something that didn't exist?
I understand your point, but I think Earhart said it even better when handling a complaint about her attire the other day:
https://twitter.com/Amelia__Earhart/status/633390043206291456
She was even at a pilot's convention in Switzerland, in which while people were taking pictures of her next to the Pilatus PC-12 she flew around the world (recreating Amelia Mary Earhart's flight), a male pilot came up to her and said, "hey.. would you like to have a pilot in your picture?" She replied that "there already is a pilot in the picture."
The guy proceeded to look throughout the entire aircraft trying to find the pilot, not believing once or getting the hint that SHE was the pilot.
That's what she's had to deal with, just like women in IT have had to deal with the equivalent in the field from men.
BL.
"Really upset a lot of folks by wearing a dress while flying today. If I can drive in a dress, I can certainly fly in a dress, am I right?"
I would not want a Pilot flying in a dress IMO, in a car is there is a emergency you can pull over and get out. If there is a cockpit fire the results could be catastrophic. If your legs get burned before you can use the hand extinguisher, all the peoples lives on the plane could be in jeopardy. If someone was in a dress with sandals, I would also not think she was a pilot as only an irresponsible pilot would fly an airplane in those kinds of clothes. What kind of pilot would put their passengers lives in danger for fashion? A PC12 is a single engine airplane, if the engine fails you are going to crash so dressing appropriately is very important.
SJW just blindly believe that it would be discrimination to have a dress code for pilots either formal or informal.
I should have prefaced that. The day she tweeted that, she was flying (actually, getting a checkride in) a Cirrus SR22:
Keep in mind that she isn't flying commercially (read: Part 121), as she is also a business owner and professional speaker. But with what you just said, you just repeated the exact thing she's railing against. She is trying to get women, especially young women/girls interested in aviation, not to be a jetsetting fashionista in a plane.
BL.
Maybe pilots should wear racing driver suits when flying, as clothes could catch fire in a crash
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Why should people get teased about their profession, I'm not really sure that's OK.
This is interesting and relevant - http://blog.stackexchange.com/2015/08/why-stack-overflow-is-a-good-workplace-for-women/?cb=1
I should have prefaced that. The day she tweeted that, she was flying (actually, getting a checkride in) a Cirrus SR22:
Keep in mind that she isn't flying commercially (read: Part 121), as she is also a business owner and professional speaker. But with what you just said, you just repeated the exact thing she's railing against. She is trying to get women, especially young women/girls interested in aviation, not to be a jetsetting fashionista in a plane.
BL.
Still not a reason to wear a dress, if there is a fire or some other emergency you need to be dressed appropriately. When I flew in northern Canada, I refused passengers, nurses and doctors boarding if they were not dressed for the weather. If something goes wrong in an airplane, you must be prepared.
As a student pilot, my flight instructor refused to fly with me when I showed up in shorts and sandals. I asked why and he cited safety reasons.
They do in the military and in the the civilian world the uniforms will be made out of natural materials which have better fire characteristics
Shouldn't we all wear racing suits or special fireproof clothes when we drive, as I'd have thought a car was more likely to catch fire than a plane.
Not teased from his co-workers, teased by people outside if healthcare.
And that's my point. Because people have generalized and gone with the stereotype of what a 'typical' nurse should look like or be.
Just like we've generalized and stereotyped who and what:
- a pilot should be,
- a software developer should be,
- a systems analyst/engineer/administrator should be,
- an army bushranger should be.
BL.
Yes to a degree, but that's not the fault if those industries. And for the pilot one, a professional pilot should not be in a dress. Wear a pink flightsuit for all I care but a dress should not be worn.
Why do you need a role model at all? I view that complaint as an excuse to cover for the speaker's lack of dedication and ambition.
You see lots of press about girls being dissuaded from tech careers. What you don't see is the truth about why. It's not the boys pushing them out, it's the other girls and non-tech boys socially ostracizing them as geeks/nerds.
Why does "drop tech" really gain steam in the early teens? Because that's when puberty hits and girls start realizing their sexual power. That severely diminishes if you get labeled an undesirable, so naturally many girls drop tech.
The other reason you see a lot more men in heavy technical positions is there are simply a lot more of them in the higher IQ ranges. Go a couple of standard deviations out and it's easily 2:1 or more.
When it is her profession and working for an airline, she needs to wear what would be needed to represent the airline. But on her own, in her own aircraft, she's bloody well entitled to wear whatever she wants, as it isn't the attire that makes the pilot, it's the person.
With the ceremonial cutting of the shirt after passing your first checkride, did you wear a pilot's outfit or suit? Should she have worn one throughout the entire recreation of Earhart's flight? In her own plane?
or are you questioning her all around professionalism, seeing that she was also a news anchor and traffic reporter for one of the major stations in Denver, CO?
randian said:
Yet she was the one that flew around the world, completed her dream, on her own, and symbolically closed a 76 year old flight plan. That, she did, after getting questioned all of the time about if she was a pilot, just based off her name alone.
I really hope for your sake that you are not asserting that men are and always will be smarter than women. If so, you're opening a can of worms that you sure as hell don't want to open.
BL.
If we constantly see men and women in certain gender dominated jobs, thats what we are use to seeing. It happens a lot. But I don't think generalizing or stereotyping is being the primary cause. Because most of us realize there are male nurses, female doctors and so on.
I cannot say if wearing a dress while flying might be a safety hazard. I don't think pilots should be wearing high heels, sandals and flipflops on a plane or even a motor vehicle. Or any clothing that may be a safety hazard.
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Some jobs women shouldn't be doing, and that's one of them. It's simply impossible that any woman would be a top candidate. Sexual dimorphism guarantees it. Size and strength means you can break through walls, carry heavy (and more) gear, hold high-pressure hoses, and carry people without dragging (and most likely further injuring) them. A one in a million woman wouldn't rank among the top 500 men in physical abilities. Same goes for soldiers and cops. Some will reply "but women can carry guns too". Yeah, but I'm one of those weirdos who thinks that subduing criminals without having to resort to lethal force is a desirable thing, as is the ability to physically intimidate someone into submission without combat. I don't like criminals, but I don't like needlessly hurting them either.
People who die because a firefighter couldn't break down a wall or move heavy debris aren't written up as murdered, but they're just as dead, and the damn fools who hired that weakling have blood on their hands. The quest for unicorns gets people killed.
Then let's open it, shall we? Men aren't on average smarter than women, but tech companies do not hire average. There are a lot more smart men than smart women and the gap widens the higher up the IQ curve you go. The same is true (in reverse) going down the IQ scale. Way more really dumb men than really dumb women. "You go girl" campaigns, in their many varieties, change nothing because this will always be so barring major genetic changes in humans.
Nope. Women skew almost exactly the same as men across the board on IQ tests. There are some cognitive processing differences between the genders. Men tend to have better spatial reasoning, while women tend to be better linguists, for instance. But overall, you're going to have just as many smart women as there are men in any society that provides co-education.
edit: Here's an interesting read.
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General aviation is more dangerous than driving a car, way more dangerous. Racing cars would be more dangerous than both of them. If your engine stops in car, your can pull over, if it happens to be in the winter in an isolated area, I hope you are dressed for the situation.
In a small single engine airplane its critical that you are prepared for a forced land in case of an engine failure. If you are lucky you crash near a populated area and you can be reduced within a few hours. There is a reason that pilots both male and female wear flight suits, as it will increase their chance of survival. Why does Danica Patrick not race in a dress? Is it the patriarch opressing her to wear a race car uniform?
I wore my Canadian Forces issued flight suit, nothing was cut but I was put into a bathtub filled with water and ice after my first solo flight. For a flight around the world in a single engine aircraft I would have worn some type or flight suit or comfortable clothes like running shoes and jeans. I would have had life rafts and other survival equipment on board, but it really depends on the flight you are doing.
A Russian pilot just recently crashed in the arctic and was well prepared, he landed on an ice flow and waited 2 days before being rescued.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north...nanov-grateful-to-return-to-iqaluit-1.3171730
At a minimum when I go flying I wear loose jean and a cotton jeans. Natural materials will not melt and stick to the body if there is a fire. I make sure I have a good pair of shoes on which will not restrict my ability to use the rudder pedals.
Yup there are some A##hole pilots for sure, this guy reminds me of a joke I heard.
You know how to tell who is a pilot in a bar? no.
Don't worry, he will tell you.
Then people like Brenda Berkman would really piss you off. Not only because she was a female firefighter, but worked at the FDNY for 25 years, including during 9/11. Her company was called up to help at the WTC.
You'd also be pissed off at the two women who passed the Army Ranger training and test - a feat that most MEN tried and FAILED. in fact, 400 people tried for it, with 19 being women. that got narrowed down to 96, with the two women included. so that makes 94 men to pass it, with 306 failing. take out the 17 other women, and that leaves you 289 men that tried and failed this year.
I also note that unless your name is announced on Friday, that you aren't one of those 94 men.
So please, spare us the machismo act, because that act is older than the Rolling Stones, who are older than most stones on the planet.
BL.