Apple Releases New PowerMacs

[SpamJunkie]

...the reality is that in order to make a video card for the Mac, you have to make it talk to Open Firmware.

So you're saying that the big edian - little edian difference between macs and PCs isn't a problem? I always thought that was why things were so difficult.

 

[agreenster]

I'm not sure about the relationship between GPUs and 3D graphics rendering beyond how important they are for games, but I do know that with some very few exceptions, the GPU is not used for film or even video-level 3D rendering.

Yep, you're right. But dont forget, for animators, rendering speed is nice and all: but for me, when I'm animating, I need a fast GPU (and CPU) so I can interact with my puppets faster. The more polys it can handle, the faste I can animate. Imagine wanting to move a characters face and you have to wait a second or two for the puppet to update. Very hard to animate. Playblasting relies on the GPU as well.

The biggest thing I'm suprised about is just how long everything is taking (as far as updates on hardware goes). A whole year to get past 2ghz, and only 500mhz instead of 1000 as promised? Suprising.

But hey, 2.5 is still fast, and at least its available in a month.

 

[Papercut]

Fandango!

This site is poppin like corn!!! Doesn't everyone have to go to work? And where is thewendigo? If I had the scratch I'd buy one of the 2.5's right now. I'm sittin in Thaiwan eatin guava and chocolate. BTW as of three days ago the Imacs were on sale at an Apple store. 😛

 

[media_jedi]

Remember though jedi, these systems will have to be good for a 6 month to year period or so.

The 3 ghz isn't coming out for a while, (said by apple official) and opterons will continue to climb and get cheaper 😉

True, we might be waiting awhile before the next upgrade (then again things might be quicker from here on in), but if your buying a computer now/next few months you would be quite well off with the Dual 2.5 compared to anything out there. If you buy this computer or the Opteron at this time do you really care what is happening in the next 6 months, because your more then likely not buying another computer in that time frame.

I agree with your statement completely, Apple still does need to pick up the pace, but for anyone actually needing a new system now (whichever they choose Apple or Opteron) it doesn't really matter how fast Apple or AMD can get to 3GHz.

take care

 

[Caezar]

Upgrade graphics card?

I am a PC user who would want to switch to the Mac uder certain conditions, notably be able to play games in good conditions.

First, I would need a decent graphics card. Wouldn't it be possible to upgrade the graphics card on the entry-level Power Mac to a Nvidia 5950 for example?

Also, is there any hope that Counter Strike Source (the next version of CS based on HL2) will be playable on Mac?

Another solution for me would be to buy an inexpensive eMac for daily use and rely on the upcoming Phantom gaming console ($200, to be released in November by Infimium Labs) to play PC games such as Couter Strike.

 

[PRØBE]

Consumer grade? With dual 1.25 GHz frontside bus? And dual G5/2.5?

You people bitching about the video card have gone from being simply annoying to being absolutely ridiculous.

A video card isn't the only thing defining a machine. By any standards, these are exceptionally powerful desktop systems.

Yes. the SAME exceptionally powered desktop systems we had a YEAR ago.
(Except for 1 model). Plus the guy you quoted said they would be consumer grade if they were SINGLE processor which I would have to agree with (again with the exception of the 2.5)

 

[HiRez]

I don't know if anybody pointed this out yet, but:

3D hardware accelerates two things: games and QuartzExtreme.

Uh, no. They also accelerate professional 3D graphics apps such as Maya, Cinema4D, and Lightwave, plus much scientific simulation software (protein folding, molecular modeling, weather and aerodynamic simulators, architectural walkthroughs, MRI/CAT visualization). Not only that but many "2D" apps are now using OpenGL to accelerate previews, such as After Effects, Final Cut Pro, and Motion. Soon some 2D and 3D apps will actually be using GPUs to do final renders. And the uses to which GPUs are being put to are increasing all the time. Even the iTunes Visualizer and many screen savers are OpenGL-accelerated.

 

[3-22]

I am a PC user who would want to switch to the Mac uder certain conditions, notably be able to play games in good conditions.

First, I would need a decent graphics card. Wouldn't it be possible to upgrade the graphics card on the entry-level Power Mac to a Nvidia 5950 for example?

Also, is there any hope that Counter Strike Source (the next version of CS based on HL2) will be playable on Mac?

Another solution for me would be to buy an inexpensive eMac for daily use and rely on the upcoming Phantom gaming console ($200, to be released in November by Infimium Labs) to play PC games such as Couter Strike.

Video cards will be the least of your problems playing games on a Mac. Getting a Mac port of the game is the hard part. If you are a big gamer and always want the latest game, a Mac might not be the best choice. Sad but true...

 

[Steven1621]

with the 1.8 and 2.0 models appearing to be unchanged, i would expected that we might see another update sooner than usual, perhaps in the fall...

 

[LaMerVipere]

Apple Desktops and specifically Power Macs look ever LESS attractive to consumers with this update. I hope sales sink to even lower levels than before. This is absolutely unacceptable for Apple to produce this kind of downgrade in terms of the dual 1.8, and raise the price of the higher end even further.

Do they love their 2% marketshare? I guess it doesn't bother them since they have the iPod selling so well. 😡

 

[Solver]

How many other systems can take 8 gigs of memory

Nice, although you have to add $4650 to the base price.

 

[Hattig]

But the reality is that in order to make a video card for the Mac, you have to make it talk to Open Firmware.

Ya know what? The AmigaOne PPC motherboard, and I suspect the Pegasos PPC motherboard, being made in the thousands, not hundreds of thousands, can use bog standard PC graphics cards because the firmware (UBoot and Open Firmware respectively) on these machines includes a simple x86 emulator (and on the Pegasos, special code to handle certain graphics cards) for this reason.

There is no excuse for Apple not to have something similar in their firmware.

 

[gregorypierce]

I'll say one that people missed

Why oh why aren't these machines based on PCI-Express (which is not PCI-X). The future for these machines and the industry as a whole is PCI Express, the high end video cards are headed PCI Express - PC architecture is becoming PCI Express. Apple usually leads the way in this area, but they're kinda looking on from the sideline with some of their decisions here.

 

[jocknerd]

The 1.8's did change

with the 1.8 and 2.0 models appearing to be unchanged, i would expected that we might see another update sooner than usual, perhaps in the fall...

They are now using the motherboard from the 1.6's previously. You can't upgrade above 4GB's of memory with them now. Crippled. I was set to buy one until I noticed that.

I wish somebody from Apple would explain why they do this on the entry level PowerMacs. If they really want to bump you to the middle tier one, just drop the entry level one all together. Otherwise, just have one and let us choose the cpu, graphics card, hard drive, and memory.

 

[Captnroger]

Some above said compare: (I'm not a PC fanboy, please don't flame me). Pricing from NewEgg.

Tyan Dual AMD Motherboard - $480
Two AMD Opteron 246 processors (2ghz) - $922
1GB DDR400 RAM - $184.00
ATI 9800XT - $450
WD250mb SATA 7200rpm - $178
DVD/CDR Burner - $149
Case/PS/Keyboard/Mouse - approx $250

Total without OS $2613

 

[klaus]

I agree about the type of card, but asking for a €330 premium (in Belgium) for the 9800xt is way out of line.

Yes indeed, but I guess that has always been the case for apple-addons (like the memory)

Here's what I will do: i'll buy the 2.5 as it is (stock), buy some ram (1gb), and if the new radeon's or nvidia's are ported to mac, than i'll buy one and upgrade them.

that'll give me some 3 years of use of this powermac. Then there will be something else 🙂

 

[sfwalter]

OLd 1.8 vs. new 1.8

Would I be better off finding an original 1.8 dual processor or the new one? From what I gather the new 1.8 is a step backward, becaue it's on the old 1.6 motherboard.

 

[mac-in-fool]

Glad I bought refurb 1.8 two weeks ago

I thought that i would wake up enraged by my stupidity in buying a refurb 1.8 dual two weeks ago for 1,999, I just could not wait any longer. Turns out, the new 1.8's are less of a machine for the same dough. Less standard memory (256gb) and 4 less ram expansion slots and a hard drive that is half the size.

 

[macnews]

has anyone else noticed ADC is here to stay? at least for now. Well this update certainly makes me happy I didn't wait, and makes every owner of a dual 1.8 or 2.0 laugh at all the waiters. Me and my Rev C 12" are pointing our fingers at you. What happened to Gigabit Ethernet!?!?!?!?!?

I think people are freaking out because Apple offers a BTO option for an ADDITIONAL gig ethernet port via a PCI - X slot. My guess is this goes to the networking options they are pushing. If you check out the white papers for the new releases you will see Apple STILL has the standard 10/100/1000 base T ehternet. For those who don't know 1000 base T IS gig ethernet. Apple has lead the way for years by including gig ethernet - an WOW does it increase speed! A year ago upgraded our internal network to gig ehternet on our main production machines and talk about quick file transfer times to the server. 10MB file you don't even notice anything happened. 50MB file - blip. 100MB takes a few seconds.

That also leads me to some bitching about the lack of hard drive space. 160GB hard drive? Are you nuts? That is a lot of space! More than enough for any apps, os, fonts, special effects plugins, and so much more! If you anyone whines saying "well video eats up so much space" yeah- it does! Get an external. Professionals will and are using RAID systems with TERABYTES of space. Oh, if 160 MB isn't enough upgrade to the single 250GB HD or two 250 drives for 500MB (half a terabyte) of space. IS THAT ENOUGH?!?!

I don't need more space for hard drives given the storage space now available. Even in the future this will be MORE than what I would want on a personal machine. If I needed more space I would put it on an external - or maybe two externals for backup and reliability, not to mention portability.

 

[dr.Zoidberg]

Zoidberg is happy!

Zoidberg is happy!! Now Zoidberg can make movies....Dual 1.8's are good enough for me...What only 256MB Ram??? Ahh, they just want more money from me, $2000.00 isnt enough!? I'm still buying one right now!
Wuuuubbbb wub wub wub wub wub wub

 

[iriejedi]

FINALLY!!!!! I did it!

🙂 🙂 🙂 Why July - my theory - they come WITH Tiger installed!!!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

I ordered mine YEAH TEAM - 5 gigs of power......my advice - enroll in a 1 unit course at comminity college - get the educational discount $300 off ($2699 for dual 2.5g) and then turn around and buy the X800 card once it hits the streets! (DO NOT PAY THE $270 for the 9800 upgrade... the X800 is only $470ish at Mac Mall (probably cheeper elsewhere) it just $200 more for a HUGE booste of gaming uh I mean graphics power!!!!! 😛

Now off to crucial to buy the big memory boost!
😱
2.5 gigs or ram and 2.5 X 2 gigs of speed - I'm so high now I feel like a crack baby entering the world - I just hope that I'm not let down like they are!

boo yeah! 😀

Apple has released the new PowerMac G5 revisions.

The new machines are as follows:

Dual 1.8GHz - $1999
Dual 2.0GHz - $2499
Dual 2.5GHz - $2999

 

[dr.Zoidberg]

oh no!

Now Zoidberg is confused...is the New 1.8 really WORSE than the OLD 1.8???? Oh i spoke too early again!!!!!

 

[displaced]

Please try reading the whole thread before you post; this was already addressed. The primary problem of Mac graphics cards lagging behind PC ones is that the ROM on the card needs to be re-written to interface with the Mac's Open Firmware, which is significantly different than PC's BIOS.

--Cless

*blush*

Sorry about that. When I clicked reply, the message I was responding to was the latest message. However, my pesky job kept interrupting me so by the time I submitted it, some time had passed 🙂

Thanks for the info regarding the firmware changes required. I'm going to try to find out some more low-level info on this...

 

[rog]

1799.00 Educational Pricing on the 1.8 Dualie.

Must.Put.Credit.Card.Down.

Well I thought about taking that approach. Need to add $45 for the upgrade to the barely usable ATI 9600, Will need to spend another $200+ on 2 512MB chips to bring the RAM up to 1.25 GB. Personally, I'd also have to buy 2 internal SATA drives. The 80GB they ship can hold my music, the OS, and a few programs and documents but not much else. So there's another $300 I'd need for a 160 GB drive and a backup drive. Then I'd still have to give up having 2 opticals and 52X CDR speeds on my DP 867. Nope, for me no temptation to spend that kind of money. And there is no way I am going to spend $2000 in 2004 for a 1.8GHz machine. I don't care if it came with 4 processors.

 

[HiRez]

the X800 is only $470ish at Mac Mall

The X800 is available for Macs? Really? I thought it wasn't yet. ATI just announced a new 9800 Pro for Mac today.