Apple Releases New PowerMacs

[edesignuk]

Actually, that system is $1,999 and gets the crap kicked out of it by the mid-level mac as it exists in the basic configuration. It also completely lacks the $200-300 in software you need to mac Windows remotely equal to OS X in features and security.

ok, it was $1899 on offer yesterday, but yes, now it's $1999, but there is still something about a $150 mail in rebate

 

[MrSugar]

So, I originally got a dual 1.8 low end machine with 4g max-- upgraded HD and gfx as well as AE and BT. But, then I saw the dual 2.0 refurbished today.. called apple, cancled my order, ordered the dual 2.0. Now I have extra ram, more bus, faster processors, and comparable gfx (slower super drive) for the SAME price.. plus more upgradability!

Should be here next week!!! yay

 

[Mav451]

1) He's talking about 9800 Pro's (presumably the cheaper 128MB ones as well):

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-268&depa=0
That's the Sapphire 9800 Pro (128MB version) @ $209.

...this is NOT to be confused with the even cheaper 128-bit memory interface 128MB 9800 Pro (which is only $169).

The 256MB version of the Sapphire is $275 (vs. $209 for 128MB version).

2) The $300 increase IS justified for the jump from an ATi (NOT Sapphire) 9600XT to 9800XT:

Newegg's pricing:
$168
$449
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=property&DEPA=0

I'd say $300 is not bad, considering it's Apple too. Plus/Minus $20 is nothing to cry about when your are already shelling out over 2-3 grand...

 

[zimv20]

Talk about making a big deal out of nothing. [...] As if it would be restricted due to supercomputers!!

it's happened before.

Apple Computer is trying to persuade the U.S. government to lift restrictions on exports of the new PowerPC G4 processor-based Power Mac systems, the acting head of the company said at Apple Expo on Wednesday.

"The Power Mac G4 is so fast that it is classified as a supercomputer by the U.S. government, and we are prohibited from exporting it to over 50 nations worldwide," said Steve Jobs, Apple's interim chief executive officer.

link

and from this august 99 article

Effective today, the United States has lifted strict controls from some countries and allowed others to import higher-performance computers. U.S. export controls seek to protect national security by preventing powerful computers from being exported for potential military or other purposes.

But the United States revised its guidelines because the pace of development has meant that export restrictions have increasingly applied to low- to mid-level machines.

High-performance computers are controlled through a four-tiered system in which countries that represent a low risk to national security, such as Canada, are allowed to import high-performance computers with few restrictions. Controls increase with countries that are perceived to be a threat, up to a virtual embargo on nations such as Iraq.

Also today, Hungary, Poland, the Czech Republic, and Brazil were moved into the low-risk category. Meanwhile, computer performance levels allowed in the next strata of countries--which include South Africa and South Korea--doubled. Higher-performance computers were also allowed into the next tier of countries, although there is a sharp distinction between what is allowed for civilian vs. military users.

The amount of computing power allowed is judged in Millions of Theoretical Operations per Second, or MTOPS. The range allowable for these third-tier companies, such as India, Pakistan, China, and Russia, increased from 2 to 7,000 MTOPS for a civilian end user to between 2,000 and 12,300 MTOPS. In six months, it is set to increase to 6,500 MTOPS.

A company must notify the Commerce Department if it plans to sell a computer with MTOPS in that range. After ten days, the company can ship the computer if the Commerce Department hasn't said not to.

did you think i was just making this stuff up?

 

[Bigheadache]

@Zimv20

This is Australia and NZ you are talking about with the agency approval. Unless the world has changed since I last checked, we haven't actually joined the axis of evil so I don't see how that applies. Also consider that Australia is participating in the Joint Strike Fighter project... so the US is willing to give us stealth technology, but not 2.5 G5s?

And thats laughable with the G4 restriction. I can't imagine many G4 owners running nuclear simulations.

 

[thatwendigo]

1) He's talking about 9800 Pro's (presumably the cheaper 128MB ones as well):

...which is irrelevant, since Apple isn't selling 9800 Pro cards anymore. To borrow a phrase that I've seen bandied about before: What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

To argue that Radeon 9800 Pros are now cheap (comparatively) is a bit ridiculous. Should we be upset that Rage 128 cards are under $100? It's about as reasonable as throwing in a random, useless thing like the costs of a card that's even further behind and not in the PowerMacs. If I were feeling charitable, I would guess that DHM means that all the PowerMacs should be on Radeon 9800 Pro or better cards. However, he should say that if it's what he means, and I seriously doubt that he was doing anything more than pointless, aimless whining.

2) The $300 increase IS justified for the jump from an ATi (NOT Sapphire) 9600XT to 9800XT:

Newegg's pricing:
$168
$449
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=property&DEPA=0

I'd say $300 is not bad, considering it's Apple too. Plus/Minus $20 is nothing to cry about when your are already shelling out over 2-3 grand...

The ATI 9800XT is clocked at 412 with a memory clock of 730mhz, as compared to the Sapphire's 445mhz and memory at 800mhz, with the Sapphire being the quietest 9800XT tested by anandtech. The Saphire wins by 5.2fps in Halo, 1.3fps in Jedi Academy, 4.6fps in the same game with AA/AF on, 6.9fps in Unreal Tournament 2003 with AA/AF off, and 15.1fps in the same game with AA/AF on.

While I still prefer the ATI board because they kind of own the chipset and are less likely to screw it up... What was your justification for saying that the ATI deserved more of a price increase?

 

[ccroo]

Old 2.0 v. New 2.0

What's the difference between the old 2.0 Dual and the new one apart from the speedier superdrive? Anything I should be concerned about before I buy an "old" one?

 

[thatwendigo]

And thats laughable with the G4 restriction. I can't imagine many G4 owners running nuclear simulations.

This was when the G4 was first introduced, and was one of the most powerful desktop computers ever seen. It's not so laughable five or six years ago.

 

[BakedBeans]

What's the difference between the old 2.0 Dual and the new one apart from the speedier superdrive? Anything I should be concerned about before I buy an "old" one?

just a worse graphics card (depends how you look at it) but when comparing new 2 against old 2 then just the graphics card (and whatever they have done to make rev 2 quiter ect ect.)

 

[zimv20]

@Zimv20

This is Australia and NZ you are talking about with the agency approval. Unless the world has changed since I last checked, we haven't actually joined the axis of evil so I don't see how that applies. Also consider that Australia is participating in the Joint Strike Fighter project... so the US is willing to give us stealth technology, but not 2.5 G5s?

And thats laughable with the G4 restriction. I can't imagine many G4 owners running nuclear simulations.

thanks for jumping all over my "i'm wondering if...". did you read the part about four tiers and canada, being favored, having few restrictions? implication -- there are still some restrictions.

i'm trying to educate you. thank you for making me feel like i've wasted my time.

 

[Bigheadache]

thanks for jumping all over my "i'm wondering if...". did you read the part about four tiers and canada, being favored, having few restrictions? implication -- there are still some restrictions.

i'm trying to educate you. thank you for making me feel like i've wasted my time.

You wasted your own time. If you actually read the material you linked to then you would probably classify Australia and NZ as tier 1 and realise they would not likely have a "supercomputer" restriction.

 

[.a]

talking about multiple processors.

i have heard that os X could easely manage up to 16 procs. why on earth does apple not use it (at least 4 procs in a box). they had one year to have some new machine and then they com with a dual 2.5 (for sure a very, very good machine) and airport express i mean come on...

if there would be a quad for $ 3999.- i would get one for my gfx/vfx-business.

otherwise there's only hope for xgrid.
.a

 

[dopefiend]

if there would be a quad for $ 3999.-
.a

No way in hell could Apple offer a quad system for that price

 

[rdowns]

You can think that pigs fly and cows jump over the moon - you'd be just as wrong.

Apple has 4 days of inventory according to their latest 10Q. 4 DAYS, not a year and a half.

It would be a felony for Apple to lie about something like that.

Define inventory. Are we talking about raw materials (chips, video cards, RAM, processors) or finished goods?

I think Apple's 10Q's refer to finished goods while DHM is talking about raw materials.

 

[stuBCN75]

huge price difference !! uk .v. spain

I moved from the UK about 10 months ago to live in Spain (Barcelona)

OK. just about to spend some hard earned cash and splash out on a new G5.

I think I will go for a new G5 Dual 2.0 | 1G RAM | upgrade the gfx card + airport extreme card + 20" Display (cant quite afford a 23" at the moment, i will probably add another 20" monitor later )

i have been looking at the Apple store in the UK and in Spain to compare prices.

wow, i was used to paying over the odds for everything in the UK ! but this shocked me. Take a look.

(new) Dual 2Ghz, 1GB Ram + 20" Display + Airport Extreme Card

UK total = £4126.00
SPAIN Total = £2952.48 (4480.67€)

its £1173.52 cheaper in Spain !! (1780.92€)

Just does not seem fair to me. Well, im happy because im going to buy it in Spain



OK. OK. sorry my mistake. i had 2 monitors selected when i checked the uk price. SORRY

 

[NicoMan]

I moved from the UK about 10 months ago to live in Spain (Barcelona)

OK. just about to spend some hard earned cash and splash out on a new G5.

I think I will go for a new G5 Dual 2.0 | 1G RAM | upgrade the gfx card + airport extreme card + 20" Display (cant quite afford a 23" at the moment, i will probably add another 20" monitor later )

i have been looking at the Apple store in the UK and in Spain to compare prices.

wow, i was used to paying over the odds for everything in the UK ! but this shocked me. Take a look.

(new) Dual 2Ghz, 1GB Ram + 20" Display + Airport Extreme Card

UK total = £4126.00
SPAIN Total = £2952.48 (4480.67€)

its £1173.52 cheaper in Spain !! (1780.92€)

Just does not seem fair to me. Well, im happy because im going to buy it in Spain

Your UK price is wrong!!!
It's £3077.

 

[stuBCN75]

Your UK price is wrong!!!
It's £3077.

sorry !!! just realised i had 2 20" displays in the quantity when i checked the price.

still cheaper in Spain (ok, not by much)

 

[dopefiend]

Wow, thats insane!

**well now my post doesn't make sense....lol**

 

[edesignuk]

You have 2 x 20" displays in your basket

edit: never mid, you spotted it!

 

[stuBCN75]

wish i could afford to get 2 monitors !! wish full thinking

anyway. the dual 2.0 with the better gfx card and 1GB sounds like a good set up to me. i cant quite stretch my budget to the 2.5. i think the dual 2.0 will be quick enough for me.

i am a motion graphics and interactive designer. i have produced broadcast quality sequences on much slower macs before. i think i will get another monitor later on and more disk space when needed.

anyone else going for the dual 2.0 ?

 

[sambo.]

um, dual, dual 2's actually.....

i've always found the one-from-the-top in any apple line-up to be the best bang for buck. with a graphics card upgrade and some ram, they'll do nicely.

now i'm just waiting to see if 30" monitors are on the cards in for a penny and all that.

can't wait! actually, have been waiting for nearly a year now........

time to get M$ off my desktop and out of my workspace..... and headspace, and wallet space..... (first time it's been on my desktop actually, but thats what happens when you take over a company.... you have to live with the previous owners decisions which included celeron 500's with 64 Mb of ram in my case, not enough for pagemaker, illustrator, photoshop and web apps all at once really......)
now i can get a system that will work....

 

[.a]

No way in hell could Apple offer a quad system for that price

okay, your're right - $3999.- wouldn't be an apple-price $4499.- as low-end quad and $5999.- as highend. pixar would buy some for sure - i would think over them twice ...

waiting for the wwdc (and i am sure, there will be no new workstation) and after that, i'll order a pmac dual 2.5 and a pbook 17".
.a

 

[joelc73]

Did I screw up? I ordered an old 2.0 an on-line dealer before I noticed the refurbs in the Apple store. I paid $2494 but got an extra free gig of ram. I thought I was spending the same money as a new 2.0 but getting a better graphics card, but now I'm thinking I may miss out on other improvements like noise level, etc. My machine arrives today. What do you think?

 

[jragosta]

Nice move

So, I originally got a dual 1.8 low end machine with 4g max-- upgraded HD and gfx as well as AE and BT. But, then I saw the dual 2.0 refurbished today.. called apple, cancled my order, ordered the dual 2.0. Now I have extra ram, more bus, faster processors, and comparable gfx (slower super drive) for the SAME price.. plus more upgradability!

Should be here next week!!! yay

Probably a good move. Apple's refurbs are essentially new computers. So you're getting more computer for less money.

 

[jragosta]

@Zimv20

This is Australia and NZ you are talking about with the agency approval. Unless the world has changed since I last checked, we haven't actually joined the axis of evil so I don't see how that applies. Also consider that Australia is participating in the Joint Strike Fighter project... so the US is willing to give us stealth technology, but not 2.5 G5s?

And thats laughable with the G4 restriction. I can't imagine many G4 owners running nuclear simulations.

You may not be able to imagine it, but at the time the G4 was released, it was an enormously powerful computer - for tasks that could use Altivec. Remember that the first nuclear weapons were designed with pencil and paper calculations. A G4 could to it quite nicely.

I'm not so sure that you're not part of the axis of evil. You did send us the Crocodile Hunter, didn't you? That was a pretty nasty thing to do. ;-)

Anyway, it was considered reasonable at one time to try to restrict high end computers from export. Shortly after the G4 was released, they raised the level dramatically.

That said, I doubt if that's the issue here. Most countries have safety rules on consumer products. They require certification before the product can be imported. For example, automobiles (at least in the US, presumably in Australia, too) must be shown to meet relevant safety and environmental standards before they can be imported. All electrical products (including computers) must meet relevant electrical standards. Computers must meet specific standards for emission of radio waves. My guess is that the delay is for testing and approval of something like that. Purely routine.