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Frobozz said:
I have a news flash for the nay-sayers. They only rushed it out too fast if people don't buy them. Period.

People are buying them. Their success will, ofcourse, be determined a couple months from now. It's odd that people are upset about a couple points and they gloss over all the *major advantages.* It's insanity to me, but I'll let you have your point of view. You don't want one. That's fine. For me, it fits all of my criteria and I plopped down the cash for one.

When the G5 came out I didn't buy one. Why? Because of factors that had little to do with their power or features. Although people griped about a lack of this or that, it was about portability to me. So, I understand criticism on the part of people who this doesn't meet their needs ... but my feeling is that there's 1% of you out there and you're all in one forum. I feel like it's a skewed version of reality.

I just read the unsanity article and this guy doesn't "get it" at all. It's unbelievable. I guess he's just ranting but most of the points he says are negatives are positives to me. Oh well.

Henry Norr - no stranger to the world of Macs - in his review for Macintouch had just about the same opinion as the Unsanity piece.

http://www.macintouch.com/sf2006/day1.html

Having legit issues with this Rev A does not make one a "nay-sayer." It makes one an informed, discriminating buyer.

If you want to ignore all of this to justify your purchase of this Rev A -- I certainly can understand that. If I just plunked down $2k+ for a machine with so many obvious shortcomings I might be rather defensive as well. As they say, "Buy in haste. Repent in leisure."
 
SiliconAddict said:
*sighs* :rolleyes: Some people get it. Some people don't. You, obviously don't. As has been stated time and again this isn't a pissing contest. If you want your hummer go ahead and buy one. I’ll stick with Apple’s Prius.

It's not about a pissing contest... it's about knowing what you get for your money, and making a reasoned, informed choice. In the past we've never been able to make direct comparisons, and there have always been reasons for choosing PowerPC/Mac - faster for some things, cooler, lower power consumption, etc. Now that we are being forced into Intels (sooner or later), then we can and *should* make direct comparisons. Remember, these are TOOLS, it's not about what is the shiniest / glossiest, but what gets the job done.

As much as I deride Microsoft and Windows, as much as I hate OS activation and the registry and 'DLL hell', as much as Windows makes it easier than it should be to write malware, in all honesty, there isn't much practical difference between the usability of OS X and Windows.

On top of that, what about application support? How many major (or even minor) applications are available as universal binaries? How many major vendors have even announced intentions to ship universal binaries? How many won't involve significant upgrade costs? (And how many people are using latest versions already to incur minimal upgrade costs)?

You know what I want? I want a reason to stay a Mac user. Not just keep a Mac around (which I will do anyway), but to continue with Mac being my primary platform. I've been pleading for about 12 months for that to happen. They almost did - but at too high a premium to justify it. And unless you are intrinsically tied to the software, it's clear that it is.

Of course, if the badge is that important to you...
 
Peace said:
you're comparing the top of the line 20" Acer to the middle of the road 15" MacBook Pro right?

I mean we haven't seen the new 17" (or maybe even 20 ) MacBook Pro yet.

And I fail to see the WinXP point..

Well, it is the top of the line Acer, but it's the 15.4" Carbon Fibre cased, 2MB RAM, 120GB 2ghz Core Duo, compared to the 15" 1.83Ghz MacBook.

I fail to see the point about 17" MacBooks - I mean, they will be even more expensive (although of course, they would need to be compared to similar 17" PC hardware, which would also be more expensive than the Acer discussed).

As for WinXP Pro... it's a nice feature, has a few things over Home - but the point is that for most people, probably an unnecessary feature, and one that incurs a significant cost premium over XP Home. Just think how much cheaper the Acer would be if it had used XP Home.

And Apple sell OS X as a product at a price more equivalent to XP Home (a reasonable amount then to factor in as the 'OS X' cost of the purchase?).
 
Surreal said:
am i wrong in thinking that setting the scratch disk as a different drive than the drive protools (or final cut or cubase etc) is on is the best bet so long as the speed of the drives is comparable. and aside from speed it is better for stability...no?
in other words, regardless of the speed of the internal drive, external is the first choice for pro apps
o and lozion...your speculation about new audio interface cards is exactrly why i dont want to HAVE to use the slot for FW800 ... we'll see though.

I have succesfully mixed a 32 tracks, 16 bus, 40+ plugs song using my powerbook 15'' 1.33 on Protools 6.4 using my internal Hitachi Travelstar 7k60 drive (7200rpm). No glitch whatsover. Make a partition, keep your audio separate and defrag once in awhile using techtool pro and you wont have any problems.

This said, I can only imagine the performances of the new Macbook Pro with its SATA drive, dual proc, etc. Finally, laptop users will be able to mix serious projects thanks to these new specs.
And Expresscard as the potential to bring us external dsp a la UAD-1 or TC powercore with immensely faster speed thanks to the pci/e bus...
Speed, lower latency, more dsp... I'm drooling...:cool:
 
Randall said:
The good news is February is the shortest month of the year! Hopefully it will arrive on February 24 (My birthday) :cool:
I just put on on my credit card, and Apple sez ship on Feb. 15!! Whoop!
 
A Great Argument For NOT Getting Rev A

Basically, this confirms what we all know. The good Intel stuff won't be available until late this year. This Rev A Yonah is just a "placeholder" until then. If you REALLY need a new portable it's worthy of consideration. If you don't, it might be wiser to hold off for awhile. There are major- and very positive - changes ahead.

"Analyst Mark Stahlman today of Caris and Company reiterated an "above average" rating on Apple, but addressed some concerns for the company.

While Apple recently unveiled its new Intel-based MacBook Pro notebooks and iMac desktop models at the Expo, "Intel's own roadmap implies that much of the 'good stuff' won't appear until the end of calendar 2006, when next-generation 'Conroe' and 'Merom' are due to ship in volume."

"As impressive as the computer-intensive benchmarks offered by Apple might be, there is no way to avoid the fact that Intel's Core Duo processor is a 32-bit engine that is fundamentally obsolete in a 64-bit x86 world. As AMD ramps to ship its dual-core 64-bit notebook CPU's [...] we believe Apple may lose some of its premium luster."
 
I have a question about the power per wattage stuff that was mentioned in the keynote...

If I have a 1.67 MacBook Pro and set it to 1.67 PowerBook G4 comparable brightness, shouldn't I get 4x the battery life - so like 20 hours of battery life? :)

Too bad I guess you actually get less on the MacBook Pro - I think people are saying about 3 hours.
 
lozion said:
I have succesfully mixed a 32 tracks, 16 bus, 40+ plugs song using my powerbook 15'' 1.33 on Protools 6.4 using my internal Hitachi Travelstar 7k60 drive (7200rpm). No glitch whatsover. Make a partition, keep your audio separate and defrag once in awhile using techtool pro and you wont have any problems.

This said, I can only imagine the performances of the new Macbook Pro with its SATA drive, dual proc, etc. Finally, laptop users will be able to mix serious projects thanks to these new specs.
And Expresscard as the potential to bring us external dsp a la UAD-1 or TC powercore with immensely faster speed thanks to the pci/e bus...
Speed, lower latency, more dsp... I'm drooling...:cool:


Of course you'll have to wait a year for Digidesign to have any software that will work on them! I switched to Logic as it is so much more forgiving with software/hardware updates.

But I agree about the bright future for these books and music - they will make everything more fluidic and take away many of the walls that one is faced with recording with a G4 system. I am looking forward to bringing a Macbook to band prac & gigs :)
 
ailleur said:
Wow i cant believe all the whining about dl burner. Im willing to bet most of you people have never touched a dual layer media.

The system is faster, lighter, you get an iSight, you lose a modem and something for a technology that will never take off (dl media) What a tragedy.

Big deal, an iSight, wow. I have access to a few GL2s and I have no need for video conferencing besides sheer novelty. Thanks but no thanks.

Also, ummm, DL media is used EVERYWHERE! Nearly all commercial DVDs, although pressed, are dual layer. If you don't want to highly compress your video you need dual layer DVDs to fit good quality video on a single DVD.

And Surreal was right, I was talking about firewire 800. Thank you Surreal and ZorPrime :)
 
grahamtriggs said:
It's not about a pissing contest... it's about knowing what you get for your money, and making a reasoned, informed choice. In the past we've never been able to make direct comparisons, and there have always been reasons for choosing PowerPC/Mac - faster for some things, cooler, lower power consumption, etc. Now that we are being forced into Intels (sooner or later), then we can and *should* make direct comparisons. Remember, these are TOOLS, it's not about what is the shiniest / glossiest, but what gets the job done.

As much as I deride Microsoft and Windows, as much as I hate OS activation and the registry and 'DLL hell', as much as Windows makes it easier than it should be to write malware, in all honesty, there isn't much practical difference between the usability of OS X and Windows.

On top of that, what about application support? How many major (or even minor) applications are available as universal binaries? How many major vendors have even announced intentions to ship universal binaries? How many won't involve significant upgrade costs? (And how many people are using latest versions already to incur minimal upgrade costs)?

You know what I want? I want a reason to stay a Mac user. Not just keep a Mac around (which I will do anyway), but to continue with Mac being my primary platform. I've been pleading for about 12 months for that to happen. They almost did - but at too high a premium to justify it. And unless you are intrinsically tied to the software, it's clear that it is.

Of course, if the badge is that important to you...


Did you include the backlit keyboard and the sudden motion sensor in your comparison?
 
kenstee said:
"As impressive as the computer-intensive benchmarks offered by Apple might be, there is no way to avoid the fact that Intel's Core Duo processor is a 32-bit engine that is fundamentally obsolete in a 64-bit x86 world. As AMD ramps to ship its dual-core 64-bit notebook CPU's [...] we believe Apple may lose some of its premium luster."

32-bit processors are far from obsolete - most people haven't got anywhere near using 4GB RAM yet. The only reason to get 64-bit chips is that it runs the 32-bit stuff great... but there is no reason why a 32-bit processor can't be design to perform at least as well.
 
rugonnaeatthat said:
Did you include the backlit keyboard and the sudden motion sensor in your comparison?

They've got the motion sensor. Fair point that they haven't got the backlit keyboard, but then some of us don't actually like it (and don't have any use for it).
 
jbouklas said:
Why do I say this? Because that 1.8GHz Duo chip in the MacBook Pro is faster than the fastest desktop P4 in everything but graphics rendering, where it is very close.

Heh....you might want to check up on that. The 1.8Ghz Duo isn't the fastest out.
 
grahamtriggs said:
It's not about a pissing contest... it's about knowing what you get for your money, and making a reasoned, informed choice. In the past we've never been able to make direct comparisons, and there have always been reasons for choosing PowerPC/Mac - faster for some things, cooler, lower power consumption, etc. Now that we are being forced into Intels (sooner or later), then we can and *should* make direct comparisons. Remember, these are TOOLS, it's not about what is the shiniest / glossiest, but what gets the job done.

As much as I deride Microsoft and Windows, as much as I hate OS activation and the registry and 'DLL hell', as much as Windows makes it easier than it should be to write malware, in all honesty, there isn't much practical difference between the usability of OS X and Windows.

On top of that, what about application support? How many major (or even minor) applications are available as universal binaries? How many major vendors have even announced intentions to ship universal binaries? How many won't involve significant upgrade costs? (And how many people are using latest versions already to incur minimal upgrade costs)?

You know what I want? I want a reason to stay a Mac user. Not just keep a Mac around (which I will do anyway), but to continue with Mac being my primary platform. I've been pleading for about 12 months for that to happen. They almost did - but at too high a premium to justify it. And unless you are intrinsically tied to the software, it's clear that it is.

Of course, if the badge is that important to you...


The badge isn’t that important to me. I’ve been dealing with Windows since the 386 days. Hell I have the box for Windows 1 sitting on my shelf. I’ve worked with Dell’s, IBM’s, Toshiba’s, Gateway’s, Acer’s, Alienware’s, voodoo’s among other systems. I support a site of 160 users with another site of 50. In my free time I practically run a PC support business out of my house. I deploy Dells and IBM’s ever freaking week. I KNOW this platform inside and out.
I’m getting a Mac for one and only one reason: Apple knows how to put a computer together right. And when I say right that doesn’t always mean the uber top of the line hardware. As I said in my previous post that you obviously missed Apple considers the entire system. Do you really think they didn’t have good enough connections to get 2Ghz chips from Intel if they wanted them? Do you really think that a .17Ghz difference is going to make that large of an impact? Or do you think Apple didn’t consider this when they were designing it. Consider the power requirements? Consider what is needed for a 1” laptop. If you think this is all about badging you are sorely mistaken and again don’t get it.
This is about the entire system from the OS down to the CPU down the battery being integrated into a package that just works. Again I can tell you as someone who has deployed these systems in the office I work; people treat these things as commodes. There is no attention to detail anymore. As I type this I have 3 laptops under my desk:
The workhorse: A Toshiba Satellite 15”, 800Mhz, 384MB RAM, GeForce2Go 32MB, 40GB, XP
The Wardriver: A Dell Latitude CSx 13”, 500Mhz, 256MB RAM, NeoMagic 16MB, 30GB, XP/2K
The Business PC: An IBM ThinkPad X31 12” , 1.4Ghz, 512MB RAM, ATI 32MB, 40GB, XP


You know what differentiates all three of these other then age? Not a damn thing other then specs. All PC’s are cut from the same cloth at the end of the day. What makes Apple different, even after this transition is the willingness to say what should stay and what should go. What is the best ratio of speed when it comes to CPU, battery, GPU, screen resolution, etc. I’ve seen it too many times with Dell systems, and even my Toshiba. They throw in the best hardware paying no attention to detail. Of course this sounds like a ***** deal. Look you have these wonderful specs. What’s not to love? How long is it before you simply don’t care anymore about the system itself. You simply want to DO something. That is the point where specs stop becoming all important and that is the point where Apple systems and their attention to detail becomes more important then specs. Does it sound like a BS excuse? Sure. But it’s the god honest truth.
If I didn’t believe it I wouldn’t be purchasing my first Apple since I owned my Apple IIe. If you didn’t get it yet I will spell it out one last time, it’s late.

Bang for your buck does go beyond specs. Yes specs factor into it but for those who have worked in the industry long enough we know it’s not the end all be all of qualifications for a good computer.
Again stop complaining and go by the Acer. It seems as if you are hell bent on getting one and hell bent on convincing everyone that Acer is a better deal. Deal is in the eye of the beholder.
 
kenstee said:
The truth sometimes stinks!

uh, yeah. great comeback... :p well dude, 25 posts on MR now, 21 of them negative. lucky we have your "anything negative apple news clipping service" to stop the mass delusion. :eek: :rolleyes:
 
Mr Maui said:
Forgive me if this question has been asked, but has anyone said anything about the heat issue of these new books? Additionally, will the Apple stores have display models in house for pre-ordering before general shipping?

Your first question: Not yet (For what I know of, but I hope there isn't).
Your second question: Doubt it, the MacBooks will only be displayed after the release (I could be wrong...)
 
zync said:
Big deal, an iSight, wow. I have access to a few GL2s and I have no need for video conferencing besides sheer novelty. Thanks but no thanks.

Also, ummm, DL media is used EVERYWHERE! Nearly all commercial DVDs, although pressed, are dual layer. If you don't want to highly compress your video you need dual layer DVDs to fit good quality video on a single DVD.

And Surreal was right, I was talking about firewire 800. Thank you Surreal and ZorPrime :)

I don't know what I said but you're welcome. :eek: :)

Once again, I totally agree with you. :cool: In addition to what You and Surreal have accurately stated, I have yet to meet a Video pro that would prefer SL over DL DVD capability. I got my 17" PB with a DL a couple of months ago, specifically because I didn’t want a Rev A intel Mac, and it has already paid for itself over and over.

I was on a 4-day business trip, to meet with a new client who wanted some promotional video postproduction done, culminating in a DVD they could package for a product launch. To make a long story short, with my "out-dated" G4 PowerBook and my client's "useless" FW800 hard drives enabled me to produce a demo two hour enhanced Standard Definition DVD with multiple angle tracks, subtitles, dolby audio voiceovers in three languages, that was just shy of 8.5 gigs. I secured the contract worth just under $10k USD from that one business trip. My "obsolete" G4 with its Dual Layer DVD made me some nice "Gs" (aka $$s), so I guess it's not completely useless. :cool: If I had a MacBook Pro, I wouldn't have been able to burn the DL DVD that won me the contract and a new client. :D
 
kenstee said:
Basically, this confirms what we all know. The good Intel stuff won't be available until late this year. This Rev A Yonah is just a "placeholder" until then. If you REALLY need a new portable it's worthy of consideration. If you don't, it might be wiser to hold off for awhile. There are major- and very positive - changes ahead.

"Analyst Mark Stahlman today of Caris and Company reiterated an "above average" rating on Apple, but addressed some concerns for the company.

While Apple recently unveiled its new Intel-based MacBook Pro notebooks and iMac desktop models at the Expo, "Intel's own roadmap implies that much of the 'good stuff' won't appear until the end of calendar 2006, when next-generation 'Conroe' and 'Merom' are due to ship in volume."

"As impressive as the computer-intensive benchmarks offered by Apple might be, there is no way to avoid the fact that Intel's Core Duo processor is a 32-bit engine that is fundamentally obsolete in a 64-bit x86 world. As AMD ramps to ship its dual-core 64-bit notebook CPU's [...] we believe Apple may lose some of its premium luster."

Sorry, if there is one Apple computer which is NOT Rev. A, it's the new MBP. The technology is fully taken from tested and proved PB G4s and there is nothing else really groundbreaking, apart from the camera and the magsafe connector.

From all Apple launches in the recent era, the Intel iMac and the MBP are probably the most "no-brainer" of all, in terms of overall reliability, simply because they don't represent new designs or totally new architectures.

As for 64-bit DC, the Quad more than covers AMD offers...for mobile computers it's totally useless right now, and I see no reason for people to complain over what exactly has been their reason to complain in the last years - performance of the G4.
 
SiliconAddict said:
I’m getting a Mac for one and only one reason: Apple knows how to put a computer together right. And when I say right that doesn’t always mean the uber top of the line hardware. As I said in my previous post that you obviously missed Apple considers the entire system. Do you really think they didn’t have good enough connections to get 2Ghz chips from Intel if they wanted them? Do you really think that a .17Ghz difference is going to make that large of an impact? Or do you think Apple didn’t consider this when they were designing it. Consider the power requirements? Consider what is needed for a 1” laptop. If you think this is all about badging you are sorely mistaken and again don’t get it.

You know, that's what I used to think. I've been using PCs for nearly 15 years, mostly building my own (desktops). But for the last 3 years I've been using a Mac (well 2 Macs) as my primary devices. Why? Because 3 years ago, quiet PCs were largely in their infancy - the machines were making just too much noise. And the laptops had a battery life you could measure in seconds even though the processor was throttled back to about a tenth of what it is meant to be capable of.

Yes, Macs were built 'right' - but that was largely down to actually being different. Being PowerPC allowed them to be 'right' at a time when x86's couldn't match. The G4 was capable of being run at a decent rate without killing the battery.

We don't live in those times anymore though. Sure PC manufacturers are still mostly putting out crap desktops, but I can easily build a nice, quiet one myself. Whilst I can't make a clear judgement on quality of laptops without actually seeing/using them, it should be obvious that being on the same architecture means that anything Apple achieves with it's hardware COULD be matched by a PC manufacturer.

I don't have a problem with the specs of the MacBook - of course they could have faster processors, etc. but that doesn't really matter. Look at the list prices of the components, and they've actually made a sensible price/performance decision - good performance without ridiculous price premiums. It's just that it isn't reflected in the price of the laptop. The Acer comparison isn't just to say look at how much more you get for the same money, it's to point out that you are actually getting something like $600 worth of extra hardware. That's $600 that would be taken off of the price of a similarly specced PC laptop, and therefore a pricepoint that the MacBook should be a hell of a lot closer to (a premium of about $200 to $300 would be reasonable). Hell, I can get a Dell that is almost identically specced to the MacBook for about $400 less - albeit with a much higher res 17" screen (in fact, that appeals to me more than the Acer, apart from it being a Dell).

OK, the iBooks are still to come, but the current range has too small a screen (or rather, too low a res). Unless they up that into the territory of the MacBooks (and that may be unlikely, as it could cannibalise the MBP sales), then my choice would be between a consumer line that doesn't fulfil my requirements, and a pro line that is vastly overpriced compared to identical PCs.

Three additional points:

1) I do accept that the backlit keyboard is a nice feature for some, and it costs money to do it. But if it is adding that much of a premium to the price, then it should be optional.

2) You talk about power requirements. I realise that extra performance means extra battery drain. Here's the rub - the Acer has better performance (and no sacrifices on DVD, HDD, connectors, etc.), but it also has a bigger battery AND a better (claimed) battery life than the MBP. It seems that Apple have 'sacrificed' performance and battery life for a thinner (lighter?) machine. IMHO - thinner and lighter isn't the be all and end all... if I was that concerned about size and portability, I would get a sub-notebook.

3) I was reading a review of the Acer last night. They scored it 99% - one could conclude from that not only does it have excellent specs and price, it's pretty well engineered as well. Basically damn near impossible to find fault with. So where exactly would that leave the MBP?
 
hi,

we dont know how long the new macbook performs on a battery charge. I think (I hope) it will be the same time or even longer than the old g4 pbook. I have ordered one in the apple store. I hope the battery will perform longer than the acer book, too.
 
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