Apple Removes Civil War Games From App Store Over Confederate Flag Usage [Updated]

[Renzatic]

Question is, was he appropriating this symbol for his own sick uses, or was he living up to its original intent?

And your quip about symbols and modern society isn't exactly true. People have been grouping around symbols that represents ideals since mankind first formed civilization to make beer in larger amounts. Attach it to the right cause, surround it with the right circumstances, and they become powerful things. This is hardly a recent phenomenon.

 

[Gary03mw]

"A denial of reality" says the guy that raises the impossible straw man of a total banning of graphic depictions of upsetting things.

The prominent display of the full field rectangular Dixie Cross, today, has one central meaning. Recent events drove that fact center stage and a lot of people, including me, came to some realizations about the bigger meaning of the widespread acceptance of the symbol. The use of this specific symbol in a widespread context that is not actually particularly historically accurate is not acceptable, and that is why Apple made this particular call and why I support it.

I have no desire to debate the meaning of the flag with you. I'll concede whatever you want to say it means. I'm also perfectly fine with removing it from being flown on government buildings and whatnot.

Based on what I've read, I've gathered that you're answer to my question is that you would not ban those movies. So specifically why not? There are certainly offensive scenes/symbols in them so why would you not ban them?

 

[Jmausmuc]

Which in my opinion is sad. The proper way to handle "negative" imagery, etc, is to properly put them into context. MORE information, not less people!

It's not like that.
It is allowed in History books, historically accurate movies, documentaries and so on.
The German version of schindlers liste had the flag in it.
In games it's a different thing, because they often aren't historically correct or worse, you can play as the nazis in multiplayer.

 

[darcyf]

Guess we can't play WWII games that allow us to choose to be Nazis either.

I was going to reply with a nuanced explanation of my views on this but then I read your signature and, well... not going to waste my time there!

 

[Edd.Dantes]

Flags kill as many people as guns do . I don't know how to make that any more sarcastic...

Maybe we should stop buying Apple products that are made in China, which employs modern day slavery.

This country is so stupid. Apple has made 100's of billions off what many here would consider slave wages. Just because someone at Foxconn makes $1/day doesn't make it any less than slavery.

This country is beyond repair when people continue to blame guns and flags for their problems and never look in the mirror. Use a tragedy to push your own political agenda. The flag did nothing and should fly wherever it is wanted. To many it's heritage and represents freedom and state's rights. Maybe that's why it's trying to be removed. You don't punish a populace for the acts of one person. Race vs race has always been with us and always will be. Removing flags will only widen the divide.

If this country would stop teaching that the civil war was 100% racial, we could move on. Many of you are saying that the flag shouldn't be flown in 2015. I say that text books shouldn't be bending the truth to keep races divided in 2015.

Slavery was the issue of the time but state's rights were at the very core of our war, not slavery. Think about it, the battle flag had 13 stars... The original 13 colonies that stretched well out of the South. If it was merely a racial war, don't you think it would have been changed to show stars of only confederate states...

 

[Renzatic]

Based on what I've read, I've gathered that you're answer to my question is that you would not ban those movies. So specifically why not? There are certainly offensive scenes/symbols in them so why would you not ban them?

I'm not him, but I'll answer. For one thing, you don't ignore history, nor do you rewrite it for your own benefit. Banning a flag it represented something tasteless is doing just that.

For another thing, I don't believe in the right to not be offended. Some people find the flag offensive. That's not reason enough to remove it from the public eye. Quite the opposite, in fact. It needs to be there to serve as a constant reminder of the depths people can sink to in the right circumstances.

Thirdly, you have to consider the reactionary types. For them, a government banning something gives it even more legitimacy, and thus more reason to rally around it.

I'm all for removing it from the front of capital buildings. Considering what it originally represented, and even how it was used years later, it doesn't deserve that much respect. But that's the extent of it. Some stores can choose not to carry it if they don't want to, but the government shouldn't censor it, and people should think before they demand to have it removed wherever they see it.

 

[burgundyyears]

Question is, was he appropriating this symbol for his own sick uses, or was he living up to its original intent?

He certainly got us to collectively jerk our knees though (about a confederate flag at least). I loathe handing mass murderers influence like this (even influence they may not have intended to wield). It is a subtle inspiration to the next nutcase with a message to spread by any means necessary.

In what may be a news story itself, I have just discovered that the Rhodesian flags and old South African flags have also disappeared from Amazon after they were still there yesterday. I can still get a Saddam-era Iraq flag though, and the Japanese rising sun flag.

 

[Meister]

Dick move by apple!

 

[Gary03mw]

I'm not him, but I'll answer. For one thing, you don't ignore history, nor do you rewrite it for your own benefit. Banning a flag it represented something tasteless is doing just that.

For another thing, I don't believe in the right to not be offended. Some people find the flag offensive. That's not reason enough to remove it from the public eye. Quite the opposite, in fact. It needs to be there to serve as a constant reminder of the depths people can sink to in the right circumstances.

Thirdly, you have to consider the reactionary types. For them, a government banning something gives it even more legitimacy, and thus more reason to rally around it.

I'm all for removing it from the front of capital buildings. Considering what it originally represented, and even how it was used years later, it doesn't deserve that much respect. But that's the extent of it. Some stores can choose not to carry it if they don't want to, but the government shouldn't censor it, and people should think before they demand to have it removed wherever they see it.

Agreed

@maelstromr apparently doesn't agree. Apple just banned a bunch of civil war games that use the confederate flag. If a civil war game can't use it then I'm not sure where it's acceptable.

 

[Four oF NINE]

No, people kill people.

And they kill them with guns. Pretending the proliferation of handguns in the US isn't a problem is intellectually dishonest.

 

[Renzatic]

He certainly got us to collectively jerk our knees though (about a confederate flag at least). I loathe handing mass murderers influence like this (even influence they may not have intended to wield). It is a subtle inspiration to the next nutcase with a message to spread by any means necessary.

I kinda agree with you on this. Not only do we heap way too much attention on these people, but we overanalyze their motives to ridiculous degrees, and start passing blame around on anything that currently makes people uncomfortable.

If it were up to me, I'd pay attention only to the victims, and no one would even know the name Dylann Roof.

 

[thewap]

The proliferation of the criminally minded and the pharma drug induced insane is a problem in the US, not the handguns.
Violence is a societal problem which the government and anti-2nd amendment rights group conveniently ignore to push their agendas.. a disarmed society is slave to government , government violence...and police brutality.

Making the confederate flag the issue after an obviously disturbed individual goes on a rampage, is agenda driven deflection at it's best... and IMO a distasteful way to promote a corp image.

 

[Rogifan]

And they kill them with guns. Pretending the proliferation of handguns in the US isn't a problem is intellectually dishonest.

If somebody is evil and wants to kill someone they will find a way to obtain a gun somewhere. Prohibition didn't stop people from drinking. Perhaps we should ban movies, television shows, music and games that glorify violence. I would argue that's a bigger contributor to crime than any gun is.

 

[Ploki]

Oh bollocks. What's next, removing WoT Blitz for being able to play as a nazi?

PsSST, don't give them ideas.

anyways, this is a "historical manner" for all its worth

 

[noodlemanc]

I wonder why it's still perfectly fine to display hammer and sickle commie flags? Why aren't those banned too?

 

[Edd.Dantes]

I wonder why it's still perfectly fine to display hammer and sickle commie flags? Why aren't those banned too?

Why isn't rap music banned from Apple? Why did Apple pay 3 billion for a company owned by an "artist" that built his empire on perpetuating the "N" word and calling women "bitches and ho's" and talked about hating the police and killing them?

No one really wants to touch that. It's just so easy to jump on white people. I'll find my way to prison or interrogation for saying half of what rappers or Dre says (in his music).

I say rap music has contributed more to race oppression than crack or malt liquor.. And even FLAGS!

Maybe Taylor Swift should ask Apple to ban/remove rap music.

Idiot country. PC has killed us all.

 

[Lancer]

This reminds me of after 911 when some TV show reruns they started to remove the twin towers from them. I'm all for them removing the Confederate Flag from buildings and Amazon not selling products and such with it but are they trying to pretend it never existed now?

 

[tomwvr]

And they kill them with guns. Pretending the proliferation of handguns in the US isn't a problem is intellectually dishonest.

Sorry but if you look at EUROPE - Excluding RUSSIA where there are far stricter gun laws there have been almost as many killings by guns per thousands of people in mass shootings then in the USA

 

[Candlelight]

Nine people die from gun shots. America bans a flag.

 

[Benjamin Frost]

Tim Cook's rotten Apple thought police:

A game displaying a certain flag is intolerable.

A game in which you can murder lap dancers is fine.

 

[allanfries]

This is just getting plan stupid already!!

 

[Benjamin Frost]

This will bet the first and probably last time I ever say this, but Steve definitely wouldn't have allowed this.

Injecting personal politics into a company weakens the brand and risks those involved looking foolish, like the recent hypocritical statements by Tim Cook on Indiana.

It's ok to have strong political beliefs and even hypocritical ones - we all do - but best not to involve them with your business, because there is nothing to gain.

Bingo.

This is the biggest difference between Steve Jobs's Apple and Tim Cook's Apple.

Jobs relied on the strength of their products to bring Apple to new heights. He never let his political views infringe on the company.

Cook has not brought out a single good new product. He has turned Apple into a vehicle for his own political propaganda.

I preferred Jobs's Apple.

 

[Benjamin Frost]

And if the Confederate flag can be banned then what about music on iTunes that contains explicit lyrics like the b and n words. Should Apple force that to be removed too? If they did a lot of rap and hip hop would be gone from iTunes store.

You don't understand.

Highly racist swearing is fine as long as it isn't from white lips.

Thus decrees the liberal thought police.

 

[firewood]

This is the biggest difference between Steve Jobs's Apple and Tim Cook's Apple.

Jobs relied on the strength of their products to bring Apple to new heights. He never let his political views infringe on the company.

Jobs even employed some good ole' boy right-wing redneck types... as well as commies. They all worked together to build great product for Apple.

 

[shoulin333]

Let's just let obama (not capitalized on purpose because he doesn't deserve it to be) censor everything he wants. I am with the folks here that are deeply disturbed by this for history sake.