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Apple Removes Civil War Games From App Store Over Confederate Flag Usage [Updated]
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You mean the year after the defeat and total disbanding of the only remaining vestige of the Confederacy - a unit that had a modified version of it as its standard? "Would have in 1866"
There's a big lie behind the rhetoric you two are spewing out, and I'm sick of it.
You're speaking as if this confederate flag was created in the 1950's, when it clearly wasn't. Just as the US flag went through many revisions in its early years, so did this. But this is the obvious, most common element from these flags. It is historic, from the Civil War.
I'm not talking about how good or evil various people are who like to display the flag today (and there are certainly both). I'm looking at the flag itself, as a factual, historic emblem. And that's all Apple should be doing too.
Hi folks.
I'm from Australia, so I'm have a bit of difficulty understanding this issue. Why was it deemed racist or offensive?
I would've thought that if it's a historical thing and in the games that it's used in context with this, then why is it suddenly a problem?
And it surprises me that Apple, being a very powerful and influentical corporation would take this action. Still, that's politics, I suppose and something that I clearly don't understand. Hope you folks can get a satisfactory resolution to all of this, as it's not going to go away. History never really does, does it? We're often condemned to repeat it.
I'm from Australia, so I'm have a bit of difficulty understanding this issue. Why was it deemed racist or offensive?
I would've thought that if it's a historical thing and in the games that it's used in context with this, then why is it suddenly a problem?
And it surprises me that Apple, being a very powerful and influentical corporation would take this action. Still, that's politics, I suppose and something that I clearly don't understand. Hope you folks can get a satisfactory resolution to all of this, as it's not going to go away. History never really does, does it? We're often condemned to repeat it.
Yes he is! In Germany showing ANY Nazi insignia (for example the swastika or the SS-Runes) usualy gets (non-educational) products banned and thus illegal to trade.
It may have to do with the fact that germans, as a whole, think that fascism was bad enough to warrant the ban of its symbols and by doing so stoping people to get all nostalgic about that era...which is a bit of a contrast to the US where thousands of people regularly celebrate the butchery of the civil war as a picnic-entertainment-event.
Maybe we Krauts are just to serious about those things...
The Civil War was fought over a number of issues. Eventually, slavery became the most prominent one (other than the succession attempt itself).
The South's agrarian economy had grown to depend on slavery, whereas the North's industrialized economy had minimal use for it. So abolishing slavery became one of the battle cries of the North, and when they won, the US Constitution was amended to outlaw it.
As we were on the cusp of the Civil Rights movement nearly a hundred years after the war (for blacks in the south, who were still largely segregated), some white racists used the flag as a symbol of how they believed blacks should still have lesser rights. And in the process, some white racist groups began to terrorize blacks and commit horrible crimes against them.
Because some of the images (and the reality) of that terrorism is so haunting, there are those today who want to eliminate the flag altogether, as if slavery (and this terrorism) is all it ever stood for.
This is ridiculous. Under the same logic they should remove all history books containing the confederate flag. What a bunch of mindless politically correct drones.
And I'm a big liberal, too. This has gone too far. A little political correctness in the right context, tolerance and respect of others, etc. is always a good thing. But this is just plain stupid.
I agree with removing the confederate flag in apps that use it in an offensive or derogatory way. But in video games depicting the confederacy? Come on now. Who in their right minds can be offended by a historical video game? The past is the past, whether you agree with it or not.
And I'm a big liberal, too. This has gone too far. A little political correctness in the right context, tolerance and respect of others, etc. is always a good thing. But this is just plain stupid.
I agree with removing the confederate flag in apps that use it in an offensive or derogatory way. But in video games depicting the confederacy? Come on now. Who in their right minds can be offended by a historical video game? The past is the past, whether you agree with it or not.
I think you've nailed a key difference. In Indiana Jones, the Nazis are "the badguys".
On the other hand, from the descriptions of some of these removed games:
lead thousands of soldiers in the famous Battle of Gettysburg as commander of either the Union or Confederate army.
Play as either Union or Confederate
play either the Union or the Confederacy in an hex based strategy/board war game.
which can be played as either side
Play the missions as either Union or Confederate
play either the Union or the Confederacy in an hex based strategy/board war game.
which can be played as either side
Play the missions as either Union or Confederate
You may feel it is your right to play games on iOS where you get to play as Nazis, or as the 9/11 terrorists (extra points for getting flight 93 to its intended target), or as the Boston Marathon bombers. I think it's Apple's right to exercise editorial control over the apps it sells in the App Store.
No, if they used the SAME logic (helpfully spelled out in the article above), they would only remove books that "use the Confederate flag in offensive or mean-spirited ways, which is in violation of our guidelines."
Much as it may disappoint you, the logic they're applying would not apply to books "that display the Confederate flag for educational or historical uses.
I really wish the Nazi's didn't use the symbol of peace as their party emblem...
Well, it's evidently Apple's right to approve or disapprove apps on their own store, but that's also a none argument in the context if it's a good decision or not. Meaning, just because Apple can approve or disapprove doesn't automatically mean that it's not arbitrary, open for discussion so to speak.
Then, what's bad and what's not is often in the eye of the beholder. Is it bad to play the roll of a Nazi? More then to play an Arab soldier instead of an US soldier? It all depends on the context. In games that context is by any means pretty vague. In fact, to play a nazi character in a game is nothing more then some bits with another logo attached to his or her shoulder. It's for the person playing it to decide what to make of it. There is no scientific proof that playing a "bad" person or side within a given game results in bad ideas about society or people in general. Therefor I'm not convinced that Apple's decision makes any relevant difference.
I don't think many would dispute that Apple has the right to exercise editorial control. The issue is how overzealous they're being in exercising that right. It does ruin Civil War-themed video games, which is unfair to both their fans and developers, who are virtually all not violent people.
Because the shooter in the recent South Carolina shootings wore a Confederate flag.
Both republicans and democrats don't know what they are talking about most of the time. Fox? CNN? Seriously..... -__- Honestly, the only smart party left is the Libertarian party.
If you're not convinced that it makes any relevant difference to the players, then what's wrong with Apple choosing not to be associated with games where you get to play on the "badguys" side? Is there scientific proof of a benefit to playing Nazis in video games?
Was never a symbol of slavery. Was and is at symbol of segregation and racism 100-150 years after the civil war.
These are games about the Civil War so I don't know how a developer can skirt the issue of the Confederate flag since it IS the symbol of the Confederates. Unless those games (and I've never played or seen any of those games mentioned) portrayed the Confederates as the heroes and the flag was venerated, I don't know how one can not include the flag in a Civil War game. What about WWII games? Will they remove those because they use the Nazi swastika?
I miss the relevance in your reaction. The question should be turned around, "if it simply doesn't matter which "side" you're playing, why removing it then? " it's just a game and if there is no evidence that seeing such symbols results in matters which could be harming Apple, why removing it then?
It's a rhetorical question, the answer is of course because Apple is vulnerable for public opinion. See the outcome of Greenpeace criticism about Apple's lack of attention towards environment issues, now, few years later, Apple is praised for it's policy towards environmental policy. Well that's a good turn around in my opinion, drive partly by public opinion. But this decision to remove apps doesn't have any benefits aside to please those who "think" showing emblems is a bad thing.
so you're proposing that you guys only ban bullets?Guns don't kill people. Bullets do.
What if the next shooter wears the stars and stripes? Now that's going to be a lot of symbol removing in the american society and app store.
Historical context.
Do I really need to explain that?
Germany also has swastika banned in most contexts.
It will ease up eventually.
Utter nonsense, hate Nazism yet have built dozens of models of German aircraft, ships and tanks. Soviet, UK and US as well...and I have moral issues with all those states as well. Played numerous games in addition.
Sometimes the people that Apple is trying to please are the people within Apple. Apparently, you are not pleased with Apple's decision, so they're not trying to please you.
With any decision Apple makes (or any entity makes) those who agree with the decision tend to think it was a well-reasoned, logical decision, and those who disagree tend to think it was done for specious or superficial reasons.
Also, Apple has stated that these games were not removed for "showing emblems". A simple search for "civil war" in the app store returns many results, some of which include the flag in question, so the idea that "showing emblems" is the criteria for removing the games listed doesn't hold water.
So far, Apple has NOT removed all Civil War apps or even all Civil War games from the app store. Do a search in iTunes, and you'll see that they have not. Many even have the Confederate Battle Flag in their icons, but still Apple has decided to let them stay. Apparently "displaying the flag" was not the reason the games above were removed. Apparently there were issues that went beyond "displaying the flag".
So no. We should not shut down all civil war museums, or remove all WW2 games that display a swastika. We shouldn't even remove all apps that contain depictions of the Confederate flag.
You play the south to see if you can win by making the right decisions I would play Lee in a civil war game just like I'd play Rommel in a WWII game.