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I think it was a calculated move, Epic knew Fortnite would get pulled and is taking the short term money loss for what could be a PR win long term
Nah, cuz now people are realizing and spreading the fact that TENCENT Holdings, and Chinese company owns 40% of EPIC. And THAT is NOT a PR win these days. lol
This whole thing might never even go to court, and all companies with major Chinese investors like bytedance (TikTok) might get banned. If so, bye bye fortnite. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
This is actually a really smart move on Epic's part. They know that Apple is under fire right now, so they pushed out this update to cause calamity. They've made so much money from Fortnite, including on other platforms, that it's worth it for them to take this short-term hit to increase long-term profits. This is about to get quite interesting.
Or, it can bite them in the butt. Because while people look into it, I saw on the news this morning - now it’s spreading that Tencent (Chinese company beholden to the Chinese communist party) owns 40% of Epic. Sooooo....all this might be moot if Epic gets flat out banned from the AppStore unless Tencent sells its shares of Epic.
 
Epic knows what it’s doing... Baiting Apple during an antitrust investigation. Apple took the bait, and I’m sure it will catch the eye of lawmakers and investigators. Bravo!

But who owns 40% of Epic? Tencent...the next Chinese company on the governments radar. So, I think Apples Legal-Kung-Fu standing is stronger than Epic right now. lol
 
most of those costs are minuscule by comparison due to scale " the more u store the cheaper it is" apple is a hardware seller those developer costs like reviewing apps making API etc are all rolled into the high cost as those are incentives for people to buy those expensive devices. case in point people come to buy apple hard are because of the software that devs put out take for example if you have ever gotten an app that's on android and iOS and noticed that the iPhone version feels more fluid more put together.

that software experience is what drives sales which are apples bread and butter HW sales.

You know all of this for a fact huh? You don't know anything about Apples costs. You can argue all you want about what it costs Apple but the fact is they setup the market and every single developer knows about the 30% and agrees to the 30%. They sign a contract saying they agree to it. Suddenly deciding not to abide by that contract is not acceptable behavior. What Epic did was a breach of contract and a direct violation of the agreement they signed. I'm an app developer and know every rule Apple has in place and I abide by those rules happily. It isn't hard to do and Epic is just greedy because they want to have their own store to make 100% of the profit.
 
You know all of this for a fact huh? You don't know anything about Apples costs. You can argue all you want about what it costs Apple but the fact is they setup the market and every single developer knows about the 30% and agrees to the 30%. They sign a contract saying they agree to it. Suddenly deciding not to abide by that contract is not acceptable behavior. What Epic did was a breach of contract and a direct violation of the agreement they signed. I'm an app developer and know every rule Apple has in place and I abide by those rules happily. It isn't hard to do and Epic is just greedy because they want to have their own store to make 100% of the profit.
Apparently there's at least one who disagrees with it and I suspect there are many more. Agrees is probably the wrong characterization for it. I think resigned is more appropriate.
 
This is hilarious. I never even heard of Fortnight until this drama. It’s just advertisement for them. A planned marketing campaign, in planned videos, planned lawsuit.

I hope APPL keeps them kicked off the store forever, for wasting everyone’s time

The 30% cut to AAPL is completely reasonable. Hell, a brick and mortar retailer marks everything up like 50-100%.

Fortnight should have kept their mouth shut and raked in their millions/billions on the backs of AAPL.

I hope they go bankrupt now.
 
don’t think the annual $100 developer fee comes anywhere close to covering the cost of hosting and vetting and supporting the app. So the rest of the money has to come from somewhere (assuming we don’t want the App Store to be run at a loss).

It is ok for Apple to charge developers a fixed annual fee to be on the App store. Even if that fee is much higher like $1000. What is not ok is for Apple to think they should own 30% of your business, especially if you are offering services.
It is plain ridiculous and mafia style protection.

IN the old days many magazines that have reach to millions of users, and even online advertising, do not try to own 30% of your business when you advertise, YOu pay a one time fee.

Apple can charge a yearly subscription, but not "OWN" everything you want to charge from your business.

In any case, developers should be able to also offer their apps through their own websites, once the app is approved by Apple.
 
I guess I don’t understand Epic's stance completely.
It's about $.
So why do they go against Apple and Google system while lawyers fight it out?
Another words, anyone on an apple or google device wanting to DL or get updates are SOL while the fight is on.
Makes more sense to file the lawsuit and leave things as be until a 3rd party decides how things should be.
From a user POV the App Store seems very handy for updates and know that updates are as safe as time goes. What was safe 5 years ago isn’t safe now.
If left to 3rd parties, A) the user is responsible for updating.B) know that the app or updates are legit. C) left with security holes.
Coming from a music and computer background, even on Mac, that system is a complete mess.
Many different piracy systems in place, updates, the user has to hunt for them, on and on.
I'd like to be notified there’s an update and read quick and update From one place.
There are benefits that app makers are getting for this service.
I like my CC used in one place.
If it was 25% not sure they’d be happy, fight for 20%.
They are fighting for the sake of fighting, obviously this was thought out ahead.
 
I
A Question.

If I made an App, let's say a game, and made it free on the App Store.
So, ok for far.

Then I allowed people to buy expansions, skins, all sorts of in-app things via my website.
But I did not mention this at all in the app.

But spent a ton of money all over the Internet, social media and the news to tell people how to come to my site and buy all the stuff (no 30% cut)
Then is Apple still going to allow the free app to remain?

Remember I'm not putting any in-app purchases actually in the game, nor any payment options in my App.
Or any mention of payments in the app.
isn’t this how Netflix works ?
 
Games come and go. Apple will still be around by the time fortnite becomes just another footnote in the history of gaming.

Epic has dug their own grave. They chose to blow up this matter in the most public way possible, and since they are no small-time developer struggling to make ends meet, Apple doesn’t have to pull any punches when retaliating.

And retaliate with overwhelming force Apple must. Epic broke the rules visibly and willingly, then they tried to garner goodwill in the press and tech punditry world by having people focus on Washington going after Apple, while relying on straw man arguments to back up their position.

They wanted a fight, now they have one. Don’t go disappointing me now, Apple.
Epic didn't dig anything. iOS is just one of the many avenues Fortnite is available. Again, Apple needs Fortnite more than Fortnite needs Apple. "Hey kids! Wanna play Fortnite? Great! You can play it on literally any device other than an iPhone or iPad right now." It just makes Apple look bad. One of the most popular games in the world isn't available on your App Store? #applefail [edit: should have read "download it on literally any device." The app still works just fine if already downloaded on the iPhone or iPad]

It is going to take large companies like Epic, Microsoft, Facebook, Spotify, etc to stand up and fight Apple for anything to change. Small businesses and developers can't because they'd be out of business in less than a week. This is a very calculated attempt to change the system for everyone. The amount of times I saw people calling Epic greedy yesterday was insane. They are, but Apple isn't?! A 30% commission on an in-app purchase is ridiculous. Hell, even 15% would be on the high end. Every business or developer is in it to make money so to argue they're in the wrong going up against the richest company in the world is just plain asinine.
 
Apparently there's at least one who disagrees with it and I suspect there are many more. Agrees is probably the wrong characterization for it. I think resigned is more appropriate.

I am an app developer and I work for a Fortune 500 company with a lot of tother developers that have no problem with it at all. I am part of a large community of developers who really don't have an issue with it.

Yes there are some that don't like it. A lot of people hate paying bills and taxes as well but that doesn't make it wrong.
 
Everyone is missing the point. Epic is forcing this issue because they understand Apple’s policies damage talent cultivation and end up shrinking the talent pool companies like Epic need. Specifically, Apple’s policies hurt small developers and thus creates a “barrier to entry” for developers who think of the “crazy off the wall” ideas that won’t emerge from a corporate cubeville.

Apple even knows this, but unfortunately Apple doesn’t know they know it. Apple is desperately seeking participation in their developer feedback survey - so much so that they plaster the survey link on just about every developer program web page. Developers used to get invited to participate in a survey about every 2 years, so this change is very telling. Developers are abandoning Apple platforms like rats from a sinking ship and Apple can’t figure out why. Duh. Apple was too arrogant to listen to “small” developer feedback over the last 10 years - now no one bothers to participate in their survey.

In 2020 there is NO reason App developers should be forced to distribute on ANY platform via a single captive store. Letting App developers sell directly to customers, or distribute through 3rd party App stores does NOT hurt Apple in any way. Yes, it forces Apple to compete for developers, but competition is a good thing! Customers can choose to just stick with the Apple App store and ignore 3rd party stores, so 3rd party stores don’t harm customers. Again, competition is a GOOD thing!!
 
In 2020 there is NO reason App developers should be forced to distribute on ANY platform via a single captive store. Letting App developers sell directly to customers, or distribute through 3rd party App stores does NOT hurt Apple in any way. Yes, it forces Apple to compete for developers, but competition is a good thing! Customers can choose to just stick with the Apple App store and ignore 3rd party stores, so 3rd party stores don’t harm customers. Again, competition is a GOOD thing!!

Opening it up means having thousands of apps filled with malware and scraping data like they do on Android. It means all kinds of other issues.
 
Opening it up means having thousands of apps filled with malware and scraping data like they do on Android. It means all kinds of other issues.
Nope, 3rd party stores can offer the same security services as Apple, and even innovate in other areas that Apple shows no interest in. And as I said, customers can choose to stick with Apple's stores if they want. Again, BOTH developers and customers will have the power to choose the stores they use. Competition.
 
Nope, 3rd party stores can offer the same security services as Apple, and even innovate in other areas that Apple shows no interest in. And as I said, customers can choose to stick with Apple's stores if they want. Again, BOTH developers and customers will have the power to choose the stores they use. Competition.

They CAN offer that security but many don't. And that's the issue. That's the problem Android experiences, with malware running rampant in many places. And that's an issue Apple wants to prevent.
 
Epic Games makes nearly all of their Fortnite revenue from gaming consoles. All of the console platforms charge the same 30% that Apple does. If they sue the console makers, they lose most or all of their revenue, and may not get the contract changes they're looking for, depending on what the courts say. That would be a really stupid opening salvo.

When going to war, one always starts with the enemy who can cause the least harm in response.
 
They CAN offer that security but many don't. And that's the issue. That's the problem Android experiences, with malware running rampant in many places. And that's an issue Apple wants to prevent.
Again, customers would have the choice to avoid any 3rd party store, and only buy Apps from the stores they choose. Why is this so hard to understand?
 
For those defending Apple, so you willingly paid premiums for a phone just so that Apple could extract more money by controlling what apps you get to install?
The fact is simple: developers would charge less if not for Apple's tax. If you want to send your money to Apple for nothing, buy their pricey HomePods and Watches.

That's a straw man argument. I willingly paid a premium for an iPhone...one of which is the single point of contact for my credit card details across apps, music, video, cloud as well as for family sharing and parental controls. The fact that it's better built, gives a more seamless experience, lasts longer AND gives better resale value is just icing on the cake.

Apple would never have been able to fund the transition to their custom silicon for iPhone, iPad and now Mac without the cash that their business plan brings in, amongst a myriad of other things. As a developer, I am happy to pay that 30% because it is a pretty good deal and saves me a lot of headaches down the line.

People mistakenly think that the "developer fee" pays for all the costs of the App Store. This is incorrect. The developer fee provides access to Xcode and all the other development tools, instructional videos, support forums, beta software, certificates, ID's and profiles, technical support and the tools to distribute to the App Store.


App Store costs such as hosting (including electricity), global CDN, payment processing, fraud prevention, handling of refunds/ chargebacks and fraud, product discovery, reviews and ranking, different pricing for different markets as well as rate exchange, privacy tools, business analytics, security & quality review etc are all handled by the 30/15% model when a developer charges for the app.

To make it a little easier on smaller developers, a tiered model where those that make the most, pay the most would be the only thing that I may consider. That means Epic would still end up paying the 30%.

What gives people the right to impose the idea that because a company is making a profit, that they should give away goods and services? The consumer sets the price that they are willing to pay. If a consumer isn't willing to pay for an Apple product, they will purchase another device (and many do). If they aren't willing to pay for an App, they won't pay.

Apple's customers continually show that they are willing to purchase Apple products, at a premium and the App Store is by far the most successful (ranked by actual paying customers). Apple consistently gets the highest user satisfaction rankings worldwide. Given the fact that Apple has NO majority in any market it does business, charges MORE for it's products and services and there are CHEAPER options elsewhere, I can't possibly see how Apple is misusing it's position in the market. Users CHOOSE to buy into the Apple Ecosystem due to the ADDED Value over the competition.

Getting ahead due to offering a better product/ service isn't classified as a monopoly. That's the very definition of competition.
 
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I do think there is a simple fix for this.

A setting in iOS that allows for side loading apps. this setting could be something like "Allow Unsecured Apps", with a warning : "This puts your iPhone at risk, Apps downloaded through the App Store are secured by apple and verified safe, if you turn on this setting, you can install unverified apps that may be dangerous, steal your personal data, or damage your data on your iPhone. Are you sure you want to continue?"

This is what happened with Android with Epic initially only selling Fortnite by the side loaded option to avoid paying Google. Problem is, most users wanted it on the official Play store. Epic relented and that is where the bulk of downloads come from now. Now, even with the option of side loading the app, Epic are still suing Google.

Here's another question....despite there being multiple App stores available on Android, why isn't Fortnite available on them all? Why is it only available on the Official Play Store? Why is Epic still complaining and suing Google when they have the ability to place their products in any of the other stores? The reason is....most users ONLY use the Official App Stores.

This is the situation that Apple would be in if they allowed side loading/ alternate app stores. The vast majority of users would prefer the Official App Store and Devs would have to sell their Apps there.
 
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The App Store is, IMO, a monopoly and therefore something needs to be done about it.
It’s no different than your favorite brick and mortar store or any other digital store. They are well within their rights to receive a cut for the services and audience they provide developers.
 
Epic should allow external devs to create products that can be sold within the game. They technically do run a store themselves, but don't allow anyone else to sell on it...
 
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