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Apple Removes Fortnite From App Store [Update: Epic Files Lawsuit Against Apple]
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Wait what? Apple provided a storefront and they do not want to pay rent? This is sacrilegious. A free to play game will not make any money without the storefront provided by Apple. True story. Epic games thinks they are popular and now is trying to get away with it. One thing they forget though. Apple App store is only one. Developers are dime a dozen. Just look at the games that were popular in the early iPhone days and where the hell are they now. The games no longer appeal to anybody but the iPhone ecosystem just get stronger. Bye bye Epic games, you're not missed!
Yes, they are the kind of person that likes to leave their options open, so they don’t tie themselves to any phone platform/ecosystem. Cross loading calendars and contacts has been old hat for a LONG time, that’s barely an inconvenience.
And you’re right, most people don’t have the unique type of intelligence required to make decisions based on what’s most important to them.
By the way, I looked this up since you politely asked.
Essential facilities doctrine - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Granted, something being “essential” has often been difficult to prove in court, but this is how Microsoft’s Windows platform was ultimately considered during its antitrust case. Just from observation, it seems phones are even more essential than PCs nowadays! I would say game consoles would not fall under the definition of “essential facility” at all, would you?
I hope this helps!
There is no way iPhone, which has minority market share and fierce competition, is an “essential facility.” Microsoft was on 90% of PCs. Big difference. I also don’t see essential facility being mentioned anywhere in the Microsoft court order. Do you have a cite for that?
46% iphone and 54% android makes apple a minority, yes. https://www.statista.com/statistics...by-smartphone-platforms-in-the-united-states/
And that’s assuming those numbers are right. It also assumes smartphones are the relevant market. And of course that’s just the US (and this fight is world wide) - outside the US Apple’s market share is much smaller.
Probably yes.
But Apple don't enforce the rules equally for everyone.
They cut some companies special deals.
In the same way the Netflix App is just a streaming app with controls which allow you to control the streamed content and to browse what content to stream (we all agree on that)
Yet the game streaming platforms/apps are exactly the same.
They are just a streaming app, with controls which allow you to control the streamed content and to browse what content to stream)
They don't allow, yet it's the same.
Their excuse which no-one buys (not even Rene Richie) is that they can't inspect/review every game which may be streamed for quality and safety.
Yet they don't apply that same rule on Netflix etc and say they must inspect/review every video.
We all know Apple are changing rule as they go as they don't want game streaming services as them people may use those and not Apple's own games.
They will lose this fight 100% guaranteed.
This "IS" the future. The future of all content is streaming.
Having a high power device doing all the hard work, and your lightweight hand-held device displaying the content, be it a movie, a game or some work related content is where we're going.
It could not happen before due to lack of broadband etc (which many still don't have)
But it's now at a point where enough people have it, that it's finally viable.
Again, Apple will lose this, and have to allow streaming content of all types.
If they don't they will lose customers, very gradually at 1st but that will grow to the point they will cave and accept it.
Right now people seem agree Apple don't know what to do.
They have build their whole model around a locked down system and as the rest of the world moves away from that, Apple will get left behind if the don't change.
So I'm sure they are trying to work out how to move forward.
They are desperately trying to be THE company to offer their customers everything. Music, Movies, News, Games, but with lack-lustre results.
The answer is easy really, they just need to loosen their grip a little. Allow things that are currently blocked for reasons which don't make sense. Perhaps lower their 30% cut or offer different levels depending on various details.
One thing is 100% for sure. How Apple runs the App Store today is going to change soon.
Either they will change willingly or they will be forced to change due to legislation against them.
And I'm sure we can all agree Apple would be wise to make the changes themselves to satisfy everyone than to have changes forced upon them.
Humm. PayPal offer the same easy pay experience without requiring 30% revenue share.
As far as easy install goes, don’t think Epic or others are arguing against that. You thinking in term App Store -> Easy Install
, Multiple App Stores-> Harder Install. When the correlation is not necessary.
One of the problems of Apple is that it goes way, way beyond the aforementioned benefits, to the point it harms customer and devs.
Take for instance the digital services Stadia and xCloud. These services don’t install games, they stream games. It’s even easier than installing games. Applies in app purchase policy blocking them.
The same thing for Books, Movies whatever. They do not install Apps!!!!
So we only conclude that Apple is not about the values you believe they are. They are about controlling the digital business market place in iOS and cut a 30% of whatever they feel like and using you has a bat ... that is what all this is about!!
The issues that Apple may have with devs should not have a thing to do with you. Yet if you are a Fortnite player you can no longer play and cannot have have access to Stadia or iCloud due to Apple policy.
These are things that being even more value to you device experience ... Do I need to remind you that you have payed a lot of $$$$ for the devices to be used as a bat?
Apple is using you and saying it for your benefit. Stockholm Syndrome. Just because you don’t know you are becoming a victim of use without any pay it does not mean that you aren’t one.
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I am 100% clear of the place and role that I play in the greater scheme of things. By being a member of the ecosystem, Apple uses me as leverage to extract more favourable terms from third party stakeholders in exchange for access to me, the customer, as well as requiring them to adhere to a set of rules. In return, I trust that these terms benefit the ecosystem and by extension, the end user experience.
Epic knowingly broke the rules. They wanted to get kicked off the App Store (how else would they have a lawyer's letter and animated video clip ready to go so quickly?). What I also suspect (but can't yet verify) is that Tencent put them up to it, and wonder if this is part of a larger plan by a Chinese company (and the Chinese government by extension) to gain a foothold into the Apple ecosystem. Which would effectively make this a power play between two countries, and there is more at stake than just a cut of earnings or being able to sideload an app.
Regardless of the real reason, I blame Epic for the situation being what it is today. They knew the rules, they broke it, and I am not sure how you think Apple should have responded in such a situation. Is Apple supposed to just stand by and let Epic do whatever they want without repercussions? This is a pure PR stunt, plain and simple.
As for being unable to access Stadia and xCloud, I admit that it is a shame (even though I don't see myself using these services), but again, when I chose to embrace the Apple ecosystem in its entirety, it meant trusting Apple to do what's best, and it also means deferring to their interpretation of what a great end user experience entails. Maybe Apple will eventually come round, maybe they won't. It is what it is.
My device is far from being a bat (people who have been following my posts here know how I use them in my profession as a teacher and why I love my apple devices the way I do). I do use a ton of apps, and if any of them does try a similar stunt and knowingly and wilfully violate an App Store rule / guideline, I will expect Apple to boot them out of the App Store as well, and I have zero qualms about switching to another app.
Maybe the App Store is in need of an overhaul, but Tim Sweeney is absolutely the worst person to champion this cause.
One last thought before going to bed.
When we talk about consumer choice, what about managed (iOS) vs unmanaged (android). Does that not matter? I think this is an important area of consumer choice that often goes under appreciated by the more tech-savvy community.
I think we sometimes mistake the loudness of what tech Twitter wants for what the broader, vastly larger customer base/market wants.
When we talk about consumer choice, what about managed (iOS) vs unmanaged (android). Does that not matter? I think this is an important area of consumer choice that often goes under appreciated by the more tech-savvy community.
I think we sometimes mistake the loudness of what tech Twitter wants for what the broader, vastly larger customer base/market wants.
I’m not refuting your understanding of your role. Personally and I believe the majority of people that buy iPhones and iPad do so because they like the way the devices work and like that the ecossystem does not lack apps (value that devs bring). Should I also say, that personally as a customer I like the convenience of of having a simple mechanism (App Store) to downloaD, manage and for the apps I use.
Yet Nothing of these implies the requirement of Apple getting 30% revenue share of any kind of digital businesses that goes through the App Store. I have not bought into that neither have I believe the majority of customers paying thousands of dollar in Apple devices. Should I say that veting businesses such as the ones under discussion, harms their customers (you may not use them, but someone else might) and fundamentally has nothing to do with keeping the system neither secured or private (what is the security or privacy danger in a game or video being streamed?). Two values that Apple touts around ...
Sure the Apple needs to be payed for the use of their infrastructure and services: app review and directory, app hosting, app payment / billing. The 30% cut goes way beyond the market value of these services. The fact is that videos, books, audio, email ... and remote streaming aren’t apps and the App Store provides no infrastructure for the development of those businesses apart from hosting the app ...., this is all provided by the technology developed by these services. So when Apple taps the 30% revenue share, a value way beyond the market price of the services they provide, is indeed tapping into value provided by someone else, its lazy ... its a monopolistic practice.
Have fun.
PS: I like Apple technology and I want to pay for it as a customer. I do not like being used as a bat with no benefit as a customer, on the other hand I don’t like being denied access to digital services I might find useful because as I explained, the company feels that its in a position demand a 30% revenue share of things that aren’t even apps, not in the common sense of the word neither technically.
I have the the choice of choosing some other device. But me being also a business person, I do understand that digital businesses do not have such a free choice. Digital business need to be were their customer are. If one in two American customers are using a specific general purpose mobile device ... they need to serve their customers there.
EDIT: This is a very important cornerstone for the future of the digital marketplace. Way beyond you can imagine. If Apple is given a green card by the Gov, I’m sure Mac on ARM will also be Apple Store only (I have lots of Macs). There will be no way to stop other tech conglomerates to do the same at such a big scale and the tech world will be even more eschewed into the way of a few powerful orgs ... and believe that will be very bad for all new digital businesses ... the MARKET WILL BE PRIVATE BUT NO LONGER FREE!!!!!!!! Why, ... well we will be given a green card to market policies and practices that in a way very similar to a Communist State ... well you wanted to be safe and convenience at any cost right? Communist kinds of Policies, even if practiced by private orgs are to be broken ... you know free meals at the expense of others efforts by mandate ... don’t you agree? The workarounds to avoid the 30% shared revenue required by the Policy are akin to a black market within the iOS ecossystem and I suspect soon the Mac ....
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Apple have become that which they were created to be the opposite of.
They are now the modern day “Big Blue”.
I don’t play Fortnite, but this on top of the xCloud stuff (which I do care about) isn’t a good look for Apple.
The walled garden has long since become Alcatraz.
They are now the modern day “Big Blue”.
I don’t play Fortnite, but this on top of the xCloud stuff (which I do care about) isn’t a good look for Apple.
The walled garden has long since become Alcatraz.
I don’t think you understand what the problem with “big blue” was.
iMore article absolutely slams Epic games.
Don't let Epic's tragic PR stunt distract you from its true intentions
Don't let Epic's tragic PR stunt distract you from its true intentions
All the arguments people make about the value of the current model/benefits of Apple and the App Store break down when you consider most of the apps on the App Store are free. And it’s not like big companies with large revenues are subsidizing smaller, indie developers. Heck some of the biggest companies pay nothing (outside of the annual developer fee). And the whole discussion around payment security breaks down because Apple’s payment system only applies to digital goods. So when I buy goods with the Target app I’m not using my Apple ID and credit card information associated with it. I’m using whatever payment information I have set up with my Target account. I don’t hear anyone arguing all transactions via an app should use Apple’s payment system. Nor do I hear of security risks because Apple’s IAP isn’t being used.
Seems to me there are different discussions to be had. One is about the current system: is 30% IAP the correct percentage or should it be less? Who should be subject to this commission? Can apps offer their own IAP if they so choose? Should every app be allowed to follow the reader model where users sign up outside the app? Another discussion is app stores: should the App Store be the only place you can download apps or should alternate app stores be allowed? Should side-loading be allowed with maybe a system similar to gatekeeper on the Mac? To me these are separate things and one can argue the current model is outdated/broken without supporting alternate app stores/side-loading.
My compromise would be: First, allow developers to offer their own IAP if they so choose and cut IAP to 10 or 15 percent. But any developer payment option must also allow users to choose Apple’s IAP. Apple can tout all the benefits of why using their IAP is better and why you’re paying more. Developers can show a slightly cheaper price. Users get to decide which they prefer. And developers who don’t want to deal with implementing their own IAP can choose to only offer Apple’s. Second, work with developers to make Apple’s IAP and customer relations really good. Find out from developers what they need to make the experience better for them and their customers and then implement it. I guarantee you a large number of developers would choose Apple’s IAP. And ones that don’t probably aren’t using it right now. In those cases it would just make the consumer experience better (like being able to purchase a Kindle book right inside the app). As far as Apple and services revenue: let services revenues be more about actual services Apple is selling to their install base instead of the rent seeking it is right now.
It’s classic short term pain for long term gain.
If Epic gets their way, they not only get to keep 100% of all revenue from their games in the future, but also 12% (or whatever they decide to increase it to) of any software sold through their App Store to iOS users.
Compared to this, they certainly can afford to take the hit in the short run, especially with Tencent bankrolling them.
Do you really think that's all they do with their App Store? Apps are reviewed by humans, that need to get paid. The store needs a huge server infrastructure to host all the apps, all versions, their updates etc. This stuff doesn't just run itself for free.
Apple provides iOS as a platform, OS and then provides the hardware upon which people use and develop apps in a space which is generally considered more secure and more profitable (on a per customer spend) than Android.
In contrast, Epic charges 12% but to my knowledge, they provide the barest of bones functionality for their store. Their search function lacks even the most rudimentary options. The client lacks any meaningful way to manage your games. Hell, until recently, you didn’t even have email receipts for your purchases.
It’s very easy to charge less when you’re doing literally nothing to earn that.
I think there's plenty of room to debate just how much of a cut is appropriate for Apple, but Apple is clearly doing a lot more than just a glorified payment processor for their App Store.
They don‘t want to pay because there are other apps using the storefront that get special treatment with reduced pay or no pay (using their own payment processing, completely ignoring the 30%) at all with Apple still hammering „no, everyone plays by the same rules!!!“ message.
If Apple didn‘t have the whole amazon prime etc special treatment deals, this whole conversation wouldn‘t exist, nor would Epic pull a PR stunt like this.