Apple Reportedly Cuts iPhone XS and iPhone XR Production Orders Amid Lower-Than-Expected Demand

[Baymowe335]

You cannot release a phone, the Xs, that really has zero meaningful advancements over the iPhone X...or this happens!

The camera is slightly better in the Xs, and it has Smart HDR and "Adjustable Depth of Field" which allows people with the Xs/Max to control the blur of the background in their Portrait Photos. I still believe that the iPhone X can do Apples version of "Adjustable Depth of Field" but they left it off the iPhone X so the Xs had one smaller "new" feature. I can do the adjustable depth of field with a third party app like Focos, which many say does it way better.

The A12 is a beast but it is nothing that you can really tell the difference in day to day apps and even with iOS 12. If they want to put these amazing chips (which are only going to get better and better) in the new iPhones, they need to have some sort of "Pro" apps that take advantage of that power or what good is it? We are all paying for something that we cannot even take 100% advantage of!

I could go on and on, but this is what Apple gets!

You are fundamentally missing the point. Apple doesn’t expect iPhone X owners to upgrade to the XS.

The XS is a HUGE upgrade over the iPhone 7, for example. People upgrade every 2-3 years and with a 1B+ installed base of iPhones, there are always people looking to upgrade.

That’s how Apple sold 218M iPhones in FY2018.

 

[98winds]

With IOS 12, Apple encourages their users to keep their phones with a minimum 2 GB ram longer. They believe most will remain in the ecosystem.

Word expressing Apple users sentiment
- 2010 : exciting
- 2018 : pricing

X-mas Q numbers should be fine.
Q2 (jan-mar)... that's where the cuts are aimed.

 

[mi7chy]

Just want to mention that I am currently debating going NUC vs Mac Mini as a plex media server + other things. I don’t mind Windows but I love MacOS.

However, I am weighing the pros/cons between value (NUC) or MacOS.

So yeah unlike some people in this thread, I never discount Windows out of the picture. It’s the solution that matters.

I've been researching this too. Unless you go higher end and more costly NUCs, Intel gimps the Apollo Lake, Gemini Lake, etc. by removing HDR capability to upsell. Leaning, instead, towards AMD Ryzen 5 2200G (~$80 at Micro Center) or 2400G which do support HDR and have much better iGPU performance for AAA gaming. And, going with Windows 10 for 4K Netflix/YouTube and next gen AV1 codec support.

 

[Elyzien]

Good. Time to bring prices down to a sane level.

Apple don't need no 500% markup! Get real!

 

[AZ63]

Good point.

The "low" end iPhone 6 with 64 gig was $749 USD out of contract. Exact same price as the 2018 iPhone Xr with 64 gig. Sure the iPhone 6 with 16 gig was $649.

No, the small iPhone in 2018 is the Xs and that is not $749.
Perhaps you are thinking of the 5c as the comparison to the Xr. Lower tier phone with compromises.
[doublepost=1542740763][/doublepost]

It was $949 in 2014. 6+ 128gb

But that is not the base model. Compare base to base otherwise it is not accurate. You are upgrading one phone without upgrading the other. You would have to max the storage on the Xs Max. Now you are at $1449.

 

[Radon87000]

Those companies have alternatives and Samsung will go down in flames if they cut their nose off to spite their face.

There are no alternatives to Samsung displays. Even Apple decided to not use LG displays and Apple hates Samsung. Its either go Samsung or go home.

Tim Cook has this under control. A lot of the past is not relevant in 2018. But there are those who will hang onto every word as if it’s a universal truth through the ages.

The reason he hid the sales is because he doesn't want to show a decline. The decline will be masked by the profit from the services division. He does not want the investors to know that the product line contributing to 60-70% of Apple's financials show a decline. He will continue to use descriptive metrics like "off the charts" though. I had posted before that the X design is here to stay a while and as people go tired of it, down quarters will begin. Now until the competition comes up with something new, Tim will continue to wait.

It works beautifully with Apple solutions which is why it’s superior. Don’t have to argue about which third party solution. Plus I’m sure the implementation of Group FaceTime is superior to the competition.

And what do you plan to do when you meet a non Apple user which is 85% of the smartphone userbase

 

[I7guy]

There are no alternatives to Samsung displays. Even Apple decided to not use LG displays and Apple hates Samsung. Its either go Samsung or go home.

There are viable alternatives to Samsung displays. If I were Samsung I would be worried because their manufacturing oled displays will at some point become irrelevant.

The reason he hid the sales is because he doesn't want to show a decline. The decline will be masked by the profit from the services division. He does not want the investors to know that the product line contributing to 60-70% of Apple's financials show a decline. He will continue to use descriptive metrics like "off the charts" though. I had posted before that the X design is here to stay a while and as people go tired of it, down quarters will begin. Now until the competition comes up with something new, Tim will continue to wait.

A decline of iPhone sales are okay. Services and other sales will lessen the dependence on iPhones. Apple’s guidance is on track and next quarter will be a record breaker.

And what do you plan to do when you meet a non Apple user which is 85% of the smartphone userbase

SMS.

 

[Radon87000]

There are viable alternatives to Samsung displays. If I were Samsung I would be worried because their manufacturing oled displays will at some point become irrelevant.

I don't see any. MicroLED is vaporware. By the time its ready, Samsung will have refined OLED even more

A decline of iPhone sales are okay. Services and other sales will lessen the dependence on iPhones. Apple’s guidance is on track and next quarter will be a record breaker.

The services business will never come close to the iPhone's share in the profits

SMS.

And while you need to switch between 2 solutions, Skype works with everything

 

[I7guy]

I don't see any. MicroLED is vaporware. By the time its ready, Samsung will have refined OLED even more

Micro oled isnvaporware only because you are not privy to the status. You can have your oled.

The services business will never come close to the iPhone's share in the profits

Cook says otherwise.

And while you need to switch between 2 solutions, Skype works with everything

I don’t use Skype, facetime works with all iPhones.

 

[jts2]

Their greedy push for bigger profit margins was bound to bite them in the ass. I won't be surprised one bit if the new iPad Pro sees sales fall off as well. They can't continue to raise prices with this much competition.

I agree with the greed part. So, on the pretext of developing tech like faceID they are increasing the prices and squeezing their suppliers to improve their bottom lines. That's a red flag for me of something wrong with this. No wonder people don't want to spend their hard earned $$ on super speed processors and face unlock tech. Their customers probably don't want those features and are not ready to spend for this kind of tech. Although I like FaceID, the fingerprint scanner is much convenient for me. They are probably crossing a point where they are like the erstwhile Nokia and think they can do whatever they can as they are the 800 lb gorilla. Hopefully, some sanity prevails and bring their prices down. I am not going to spend $1K for my phone for sure. Maybe others but has been painful so far.

 

[iMcLovin]

We could speculate about it all day. What i do know is Apple has a bright future. I am 43 years old the year is 2018 and i look forward to laughing at this thread when I cash out when I am 63 or whenever.

I am the same age as you, and I agree. Though! I think Apple is pushing a bit hard on price increase vs. their current innovations lately. It will take some time for the buyers to catch up. I think many who buys phones and ipads every year now consider waiting a generation - to get more bang for the buck. Even though this is bad for the Apple stock, its nonetheless good for the environment -Apple will still be successful for a very long time.

 

[serpico007]

Just want to mention that I am currently debating going NUC vs Mac Mini as a plex media server + other things. I don’t mind Windows but I love MacOS.

However, I am weighing the pros/cons between value (NUC) or MacOS.

So yeah unlike some people in this thread, I never discount Windows out of the picture. It’s the solution that matters.

My co-worker was upgrading his Plex Server and waiting for the new Mac Mini. As soon as price was announced he went to Amazon and purchased an Intel NUC, SSD and ram for half the cost. He installed Ubuntu and the Plex Media server software and is very happy.

I wanted to upgrade my 2011 Mac Mini that is my Plex server currently but not any more. I'm looking at the NUC as well before this Mini dies one day. I was so looking forward to this new Mini but it starts at $1000 in Canada.

 

[magicschoolbus]

Lower the prices and make Mac’s great again.

 

[iMEric984]

You cannot release a phone, the Xs, that really has zero meaningful advancements over the iPhone X...or this happens!

The camera is slightly better in the Xs, and it has Smart HDR and "Adjustable Depth of Field" which allows people with the Xs/Max to control the blur of the background in their Portrait Photos. I still believe that the iPhone X can do Apples version of "Adjustable Depth of Field" but they left it off the iPhone X so the Xs had one smaller "new" feature. I can do the adjustable depth of field with a third party app like Focos, which many say does it way better.

The A12 is a beast but it is nothing that you can really tell the difference in day to day apps and even with iOS 12. If they want to put these amazing chips (which are only going to get better and better) in the new iPhones, they need to have some sort of "Pro" apps that take advantage of that power or what good is it? We are all paying for something that we cannot even take 100% advantage of!

I could go on and on, but this is what Apple gets!

The XS wasn’t meant to target X owners. Unless they wanted a bigger display.

XS and XR were meant more for owners of the 6-7 models. That’s a huge upgrade for them. Better chip, better battery life, better display, better camera, full screen design.

 

[ryanwarsaw]

I am the same age as you, and I agree. Though! I think Apple is pushing a bit hard on price increase vs. their current innovations lately. It will take some time for the buyers to catch up. I think many who buys phones and ipads every year now consider waiting a generation - to get more bang for the buck. Even though this is bad for the Apple stock, its nonetheless good for the environment -Apple will still be successful for a very long time.

I think Apple is expecting the cycles to become this way and this is a growing pain. Either that or they drop the prices later down the road after testing the waters. Just another day of averaging down for me. lol

 

[Mr. Skeleton]

No, the small iPhone in 2018 is the Xs and that is not $749.
Perhaps you are thinking of the 5c as the comparison to the Xr. Lower tier phone with compromises.
[doublepost=1542740763][/doublepost]
But that is not the base model. Compare base to base otherwise it is not accurate. You are upgrading one phone without upgrading the other. You would have to max the storage on the Xs Max. Now you are at $1449.

You are comparing a phone that is set to a different audiences. The $1000 premium phones didn’t exist until Apple created it. If you want to be fair, compare the same product.

The $899-$1100 price range is a fairly new market for smartphones.

If Apple created a iPhone Z at $2000, would it be fair to compare that to 2014 base model? Or even the iPhone X? Just because we are comparing ‘two smallest phone base modes’ doesn’t make it an accurate comparison
Compare it to the base iPhone 8.

 

[AZ63]

You are comparing a phone that is set to a different audiences. The $1000 premium phones didn’t exist until Apple created it. If you want to be fair, compare the same product.



The $899-$1100 price range is a fairly new market for smartphones.

If Apple created a iPhone Z at $2000, would it be fair to compare that to 2014 base model? Or even the iPhone X? Just because we are comparing ‘two smallest phone base modes’ doesn’t make it an accurate comparison

If you want to be fair, compare it to the base iPhone 8.

We will agree to disagree.
I see Apple put out a new/updated/improved phone each year. Apple has chosen to increase the price of their new/updated/improved phone.
You see it as a different product.
We disagree.

 

[Abazigal]

And while you need to switch between 2 solutions, Skype works with everything

Assuming they have Skype installed and set up.

At least with Apple, if I see them using an Apple device, I know that iMessage, FaceTime and airdrop work. At most, I just need to see that Bluetooth and WiFi are enabled, which is a lot easier than getting them to download another app and set up a new account all over again.

Then for the rest not using Apple hardware, I will cross the bridge when I get there.

 

[AZ63]

They are not mutually exclusive. You can be unhappy with Apple, and still word your response in a cogent and eloquent manner that adequately brings your point across. Rather than lash out like some wounded, spiteful animal.

And there also seems to be an increasing percentage of people on Macrumors forums whom I suspect don’t even use Apple products and never have or will. They just like to rant and rave about why. The bigger Apple gets, the more of those people there appear to be. It’s thankfully a vocal minority even at its current volume, but I think that’s still bad enough.

I think it says a lot when Appleinsiders is seeming more and more like the voice of reason these days.

I have to disagree. I think the posts come from Apple users.
I think nothing is as angry and mad as a Mac user scorned. Macs have devoted fans who have a deep relationship for years with the products Apple makes. People have strong feelings about what they care about. When the company, that has for years produced loved products begins to go against these users long held relationships to their products they lash out in anger or frustration that their beloved company has turned such a blind eye to the Apple community they have long been a part of. I have been using Mac products since the 80s. My first Mac was the LCIII. Then the Performa 550. Then the CRT iMac. Next the 24 inch iMac followed by the 2012 MacBook Pro. iPhones- the 5, the 5s, and the 6s. I bought the MacBook Air for my son to use at school.
Not to mention have owned three iPads. The original, the one before the Air, and the refresh after the Air. And let's not forget about the original, no volume buttons, iPod touch I owned along with its predecessor. I used to be an Apple promoter, in that I would sing the praises of their products. Maybe I grew up to the ways of big business. Maybe Apple changed. Whatever the case, after the second graphics card blew in the 24 inch iMac I was done buying iMacs. After Apple pulled the headphone jack from the iPhone I haven't upgraded. Just too important to the way I live and work. I also don't want or need a bigger phone. Apple could have left the SE with the jack but no. I was ready to buy the Mini in 2014 but Apple put out a down grade. So I sat and waited. Happy to use the 2012 ssd MacBook Pro as the home computer for years and years.
Now I am called a hater because Apple is asking $799 for the i3 with a paultry 128 of storage. I would have kept my mouth closed had it been $499 or even $599 but no way now. i5 should be starting at $799.
I did not have a problem, in the past, buying Apple products but, the way I see it, Apple is the one to change, to go big business. I will buy the Mini but I won't be happy and I won't sing Apple's praises any more. My purchases are no longer because I want to, it is because I have to. If my sentiment is wide spread it means less money for Apple and a diminishing fan base. Now, I tell people buy what works best for them. I even brought myself to buy an Android tablet for my inlaws. For me, the shine is off the Apple.

 

[exchguy]

At nearly $1000 a pop, the average consumer doesn't want or need to spend that every year for a shiny new toy er phone. I've been loyal to the every year upgrade but didn't see enough new to warrant spending that or taking on a new installment plan for the Xs when my X was paid in full last year.

The price has gotten to the point of a full laptop, how often does the average person buy something like a new MacBook. It's usually every 3+ years.

 

[RebelOU812]

It was slashed because they weren’t selling. The market wants bigger and bigger phones.

The reason why it failed was because Apple never gave the iPhone SE a chance to fight against the 6S on even footing.

The iPhone SE was released in March, after the iPhone 6S debuted the previous fall. I, like many others, upgraded to the 6S because we believed that Apple was not going to make another small iPhone with updated specs. Always upgraded every two years on the spot for carrier reductions. So I bought the 6S because I wanted the 2GB of ram capacity and the A9 was light years ahead of the A7. Plus I wanted to get the next upgrade window clock ticking again.

When March came I was so angry at Apple. I think I wasn't the only one, and that is where the snowball began my friends........

Plus, why on earth would I carry a 8 ounce brick 5,000 miles with me instead of a 4 ounce brick that does 97% of what the brick that weighs double can do. It is stupid and insulting to the public and everyone I talk to shares the same sentiments. We have our pitchforks and we have spoken.

Don't even get me started on the audio drop from the 6S/SE to every iPhone since then. If you want to listen to the highest bit rate of audio quality, you have to go back to the A9 chip. It is insulting to stick a bayonet at our backs and force us to walk over a cliff into audio mediocrity....

If the 2015 Bugatti Veron had 999hp, and the 2016 Bugatti Veyron had 255hp....which would you choose..... sheep....

 

[wallysb01]

The reason why it failed was because Apple never gave the iPhone SE a chance to fight against the 6S on even footing.

The iPhone SE was released in March, after the iPhone 6S debuted the previous fall. I, like many others, upgraded to the 6S because we believed that Apple was not going to make another small iPhone with updated specs. Always upgraded every two years on the spot for carrier reductions. So I bought the 6S because I wanted the 2GB of ram capacity and the A9 was light years ahead of the A7. Plus I wanted to get the next upgrade window clock ticking again.

When March came I was so angry at Apple. I think I wasn't the only one, and that is where the snowball began my friends........

I don't know how many times I've tried to make this point about how the SE was doomed to small sales numbers just from the release date, and then of course lack of updates as well, but so few people seem to get it.

And to be honest, I've been holding out on buying a new phone at least in part because of what Apple did with the SE. When the X comes out, I think, "hey, maybe there will be an SE2 in march!" Now the Xs and Xr come out and I think, "Hey, maybe we'll see an Xr mini in the spring?" Its probably irrational, but I'd be pissed as heck if I dropped $750-$1000 on a phone I thought was a little too big (or a lot in the case of the Xr) and little too expense (or a lot in the case of the Xs) or has a few too many compromises (the iPhones 7/8 at this point) only to have the phone I want released in a few months.

 

[RebelOU812]

I don't know how many times I've tried to make this point about how the SE was doomed to small sales numbers just from the release date, and then of course lack of updates as well, but so few people seem to get it.

And to be honest, I've been holding out on buying a new phone at least in part because of what Apple did with the SE. When the X comes out, I think, "hey, maybe there will be an SE2 in march!" Now the Xs and Xr come out and I think, "Hey, maybe we'll see an Xr mini in the spring?" Its probably irrational, but I'd be pissed as heck if I dropped $750-$1000 on a phone I thought was a little too big (or a lot in the case of the Xr) and little too expense (or a lot in the case of the Xs) or has a few too many compromises (the iPhones 7/8 at this point) only to have the phone I want released in a few months.

Wally, you really think that if the SE, 6S & 6S+ were all released at the exact same date...to the exact same population, that the SE would get canned....

Wake up dude, you are in the bushes.... I have climbed from Georgia to Maine and from Mexico to Canada with an Apple device as my sole tool and weapon. I have gained a sense of mental clarity from being with PEOPLE, not GROUP THINK. I guarantee you that the iPhone 6S would of been sqeezed out and the SE & 6S+ would of flourished....

Most on the 5S would of upgraded to the SE

It was never about the size of the screen, it was the width of the screen...

If you can't pick up what I'm puttin' down....
Keep hanging in the bushes.... I'm on top of the mountain

 

[jeremiah256]

I still feel this is Apple playing 4D chess while Wall Street is playing checkers.

Tim Cook is an acknowledged supply chain guru. He knows how to forecast supply requirements based on projected demand. Right now, everyone is getting jittery as we get closer to the massive increase in tariffs on China, due in January. If the funky stuff hits the fan, Apple will be in the position of not having to worry about any excess supply if consumers start becoming more bearish in their spending habits. If they are wrong, they can spin back up and with only a minor hit to their bottom line.

And I think this also goes hand in hand with Apple become less transparent with their product line. Depending on how things work out, if Apple needs to cannibalize a product, or pivot drastically, it's easier without having to worry about investors and analyst second guessing them.

 

[The Game 161]

At nearly $1000 a pop, the average consumer doesn't want or need to spend that every year for a shiny new toy er phone. I've been loyal to the every year upgrade but didn't see enough new to warrant spending that or taking on a new installment plan for the Xs when my X was paid in full last year.

The price has gotten to the point of a full laptop, how often does the average person buy something like a new MacBook. It's usually every 3+ years.

Well with yearly upgrade programs it gives people more reason to upgrade.