Apple Reportedly Shifted Billions of Dollars to Small Island of Jersey Amid Tax Crackdown [Updated]

[petsounds]

Apple is using the law, if lawmakers are not smart enough to create comprehensive tax laws, it's their fault not Apple's, however ...

Apple loves to paint itself as a "champion of goodness", a moral, caring, sensitive company ... in reality, they are as greedy and crafty as any other company, but they have the world convinced otherwise. Case in point, ask a young person who is the more evil/greedy company, Apple or Exxon, Apple or IBM, or Apple or Boeing. I bet every time the person would say Apple is not a greedy company, they have all those young, cool, hip, long hair, tattooed employees at their stores who wear cool Apple t-shirts and say dude a lot.

It's all crap, Apple price gouges its customers for a much as they can get away with and then they spend millions on tax lawyers and accountants to exploit every loophole they can find. All this while their public relations department convinces the world of their so-called altruism.

There's nothing wrong with a public corporation wanting to create as much profit for its stockholders as they can. You can call that 'greed', but I'd just say it's capitalism. Apple tries to maximize its profit within the letter of the law, but so does every other big corporation.

But there's a big difference between that 'greed' and being unethical or outright immoral. There are many companies that have gone that latter path, but I'd say Apple is still an ethical company, as evidenced by their dedication to improving their footprint on the environment, their dedication to making their products accessible to people of all levels of physical ability, and their dedication to protecting the privacy of users and not using this information to unethical ends.

 

[Plutonius]

Thank heavens for the brave individuals who risk their own safety to reveal these secrets.

It's not like they are revealing the secrets of Hillary and the DNC. Then their lives might be in danger .

 

[ToroidalZeus]

If governments want them to stop doing this they should close the door on the laws that allow them to do to it. Every government in most 1st world countries uses the same speech of how we are going to tax the rich more. You know what that leads to? More of the rich using loopholes in laws to pay less tax, limit their exposure in those countries and as a result everyone looses because they stash their cash in these heavens instead of investing it in said country.

if governments want more of these super rich individuals and companies to keep their cash in country, they need to make their laws in favor of the rich to encourage them to do so. Stop with the inheritance tax, the absurdly high income and corporation tax and then maybe they would be more inclined to keep their money at "home".

Political parties play of this stance of lets tax them more to get more votes but realistically its a false economy. All it does is encourage them to move more of their money away and instead of getting 40-50% of their money they get 0%.

Uk is a prime example of it due to inheritance tax. Because of it most wealthy people form trusts or offshore companies so that when the leader of the family dies their family isn't burdened with finding 40% of the value of the estate to pay the taxman. Who gets caught our by most taxes? People like us the common people.

So your solution is to remove taxes because rich people don't pay taxes? brilliant. no taxes for the rich and the common people still need to pay.

 

[miniyou64]

Hah I hope all these people upset over Apple not paying what’s “fair” are willing to pay more voluntarily.

Taxes are inherently unfair.

 

[Speedy2]

So these companies ended up using their own money for whatever they wanted? Crazy, huh?

That was not the point. The point was that companies claim that repatriation tax holidays supposedly are beneficial for the greater good and the taxpayer, which of course they are not.
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They do pay what is due.

The EU begs to differ.

 

[KPandian1]

Perhaps if companies like Apple and others paid their fair share of taxes you might be able to fund a single payer health care system. What does Tim Cooke keep saying we pay all out taxes. everywhere.

Nonsense!

The single payer HCS does not exist in the USA because of the lack of political will, not money!

Too much money is made by the middlemen in Health Care - the insurance companies.

Too much money is made by the lawmakers from the lobbyists of these companies.

Too much money is made by the pharmaceutical companies unethically, paid for by you and me, the consumer.

Too much money is given to the lawmakers by these pharmaceutical thugs, whose research is mainly done by NIH.

Political will is a phenomenal power, controlled by the greedy few.

 

[Jambalaya]

Immoral and utterly disgraceful.

Apple is without a doubt the world’s largest tax avoider. What’s the total dodged $150bn ?

We should all remember that Apple execs are rewarded based upon share price performance and paid too in those shares. Nothing drives up your share price like a low rate of tax paid.

Taxes pay for schools, hospitals, roads and our security. Apple is stealing this infrastructure from us all.

 

[whiteonline]

I look forward to seeing you both on the ballot and supporting your future tax reform bills...
What's that, not running?

Oh then, creating a grass roots movement to get actual tax reformers on the ballot...
Not that either?

Complaining about politicians won't change Washington, but that's all most people do.
Some vote for the slightly lesser of two evils every two (or four) years, but that won't change anything either.

Based on your condescending reply, I assume you're more than happy with the existing tax code and corporate influence in our government. Good for you; it's a free-ish country.
I've actually written letters (not email) to my representatives. That's how it works too.

 

[Huntn]

This is the kind of loop hole that needs to be erraticated along with not dropping their tax rate.

 

[davidoloan]

Thank heavens for the brave individuals who risk their own safety to reveal these secrets.

I haven’t read how this leak happened yet, but in principle everyone involved in leaking confidential information they have presumably been entrusted with or stolen should be arrested and prosecuted.

 

[hipnetic]

I just thought of a great original series for Apple to produce:

Jersey Shore 2017: With Tim Cook & Snooki

 

[Naraxus]

Why? Your telling me that if you had the opportunity to avoid paying large amounts in tax that you would pass up that opportunity! I seriously doubt anyone would. Let’s not be hypocrites here many people dodge or avoid paying as much tax as possible.

Perhaps but most don't also sit on a soapbox and selectively preach about social justice while at the same time evading taxes that would go a long way to helping those they preach about

 

[davidjearly]

Immoral and utterly disgraceful.

Apple is without a doubt the world’s largest tax avoider. What’s the total dodged $150bn ?

We should all remember that Apple execs are rewarded based upon share price performance and paid too in those shares. Nothing drives up your share price like a low rate of tax paid.

Taxes pay for schools, hospitals, roads and our security. Apple is stealing this infrastructure from us all.

I think you’ve got some more reading to do.

 

[Scottsoapbox]

Ah yes so that’s why it’s sat in offshore bank accounts doing absolutely nothing

OK Now I will explain how banks work to you...

When Apple puts $1B in a bank it doesn't actually keep a billion dollars in a safe at that specific branch like in the cartoons or the heist movies. It is simply a number on a computer.

No, the bank takes that billion dollars and lends it out to people for things like homes and cars. This A) creates interest income for the bank which the bank pays taxes on, B) creates (a lower) interest income for Apple which it pays taxes on, C) allows 'the common man' to buy things they can't pay cash for on credit which create jobs for people who build homes or make cars which creates new income that then gets taxed. (loans can also to be to other businesses which are expanding and creating new jobs and income that gets taxed).

Money does not disappear from the economy if it isn't taxed. Period. I'm sorry that the politicians lied to you about this to make you think that the reason we don't have better government programs and/or the reason we are going in debt for all these government programs is companies and/or the "rich" not paying a "fair" share.

The true is entrepreneurs and companies create jobs. And people with jobs (rich or otherwise) buy stuff that allows other people to have jobs. Governments should only intervene in the *very few places* where market forces fail and no where else.

 

[Falhófnir]

OK Now I will explain how banks work to you...

When Apple puts $1B in a bank it doesn't actually keep a billion dollars in a safe at that specific branch like in the cartoons or the heist movies. It is simply a number on a computer.

No, the bank takes that billion dollars and lends it out to people for things like homes and cars. This A) creates interest income for the bank which the bank pays taxes on, B) creates (a lower) interest income for Apple which it pays taxes on, C) allows 'the common man' to buy things they can't pay cash for on credit which create jobs for people who build homes or make cars which creates new income that then gets taxed. (loans can also to be to other businesses which are expanding and creating new jobs and income that gets taxed).

Money does not disappear from the economy if it isn't taxed. Period. I'm sorry that the politicians lied to you about this to make you think that the reason we don't have better government programs and/or the reason we are going in debt for all these government programs is companies and/or the "rich" not paying a "fair" share.

The true is entrepreneurs and companies create jobs. And people with jobs (rich or otherwise) buy stuff that allows other people to have jobs. Governments should only intervene in the *very few places* where market forces fail and no where else.

Look up how offshore tax-haven bank accounts work before explaining it to me next time

 

[Scottsoapbox]

The so called "loopholes" Apple is exploiting is only really open to multi-national companies.
For example, here in Sweden, Apple has a datacenter, sell products through Apple Sweden and have people employed.

To enable Swedish companies to make money, government has made laws so that tax can be offset. If you have costs to make profit, that cost can be offset against your profit which means lower tax.

What Apple can is to legally do what is illegal if you only operate in one country: invoice yourself.
Apple Europe is based in Ireland. Every product sold in Sweden, Apple Sweden buys from Apple Europe in Ireland. By making sure that the prices of products (including IP) Apple Europe sell to Apple Sweden is high enough, any profit made in Sweden is offset by the high cost of buying said products from Apple Europe. If the products are priced high enough, Apple Sweden will start loosing money, which means you can offset that loss against other taxes you would have to pay.

That is sort of how taxation works in most countries. Since countries only have jurisdiction over their own taxes, it's impossible to stop multi-national companies to exploit this, unless governments would change tax law so that it would severely hurt businesses only operating in their own country.

Now Apple Europe is rich, but hey, Apple does not want to pay the low taxes in Ireland either, so they set up a company in a tax haven that owns all the IP and invoices Apple Europe for "licensing" the IP. Hence, no tax due anywhere except for the tax haven which, as the name imply, does not charge company tax, or a very low tax.

This option is really just open to multi-national companies and the filthy rich who can pay a shady, but perfectly legal company based in one of these tax havens to run a business which is no more than a PO Box.
The Paradise Leak has listed rich people besides huge companies.

Of course, this is actually doable even for the average Joe, but he/she seldom have the ability to work out all the details to set up a company, start your tax haven company and start billing yourself. And, it would be a real hassle every time you have to pay your rent.

The only reason Apple is lobbying for the tax holiday in the US is that they are starting to get worried that the tax havens are getting fewer and fewer. The low company taxes were put in place in hope that it would attract companies and actually make money for these countries which usually are extremely small and have no natural resources and a very small population that cannot spawn the next Apple.
Now as they see billions and billons of dollars being stashed with no benefit to the country, they are starting to rethink their tax laws. These dollars though are as real as vapor and could be gone within minutes, should the laws change.
Apple and a horde of other companies and rich people are doing their very best to get that tax holiday as they recon it's better to pay that 5% tax once and have the money secured than pay no taxes but risk having to pay a lot more, should tax havens go away. If they were confident that their money would be safe and non-taxed in these off-shore places, they couldn't care less about taxes in Europe or the US.

So, yes, Apple is paying all the taxes they legally owe, but only because they're not one company but hundreds acting as if they were independent although it's just fiction.

This was true before the internet. Now anyone can operate in multiple countries.

An 'average Joe' can go on upwork dot com and hire people from around the world for projects as small as $50 (or full time). Buying and selling products across borders is equally easy. Sure it can take a few hundred dollars to incorporate overseas, but that is still less money than buying 1 iPhone, so let's not act like only the mega-corps can do this.

 

[Tech198]

If Apple thinks its not about how much money they owe as the reason, then why store it outside the U.S which makes no sense if u are not trying to evade anything?

You do things for a reason, and Apple has not provided a reason.

The saying of "where we own it" then say "it's how much we owe" is a double negative... Apple is trying to cover up the fact by picky piggy-backing. as they refuse to say why they are doing that in the first place when they are inside the United states.

 

[Scottsoapbox]

Look up how offshore tax-haven bank accounts work before explaining it to me next time

Why let facts or economics mess up your world view, eh?

So banks are charitable organizations that safeguard evil rich corporate money in large stacks of hundred dollar bills for free and never loan those assets to anyone for profit because bankers hate making money oh and they are a "tax haven"? Sounds totally plausible.

Here's an animated explanation of how banks make money if you feel like learning something new today:

 

[calzon65]

There's nothing wrong with a public corporation wanting to create as much profit for its stockholders as they can. You can call that 'greed', but I'd just say it's capitalism. Apple tries to maximize its profit within the letter of the law, but so does every other big corporation.

But there's a big difference between that 'greed' and being unethical or outright immoral. There are many companies that have gone that latter path, but I'd say Apple is still an ethical company, as evidenced by their dedication to improving their footprint on the environment, their dedication to making their products accessible to people of all levels of physical ability, and their dedication to protecting the privacy of users and not using this information to unethical ends.

I don't disagree that *some* of Apple's efforts might be considered noble, but their efforts are mostly a public relations sales pitch to make themselves look good. It reminds me of United Airlines and their ECO Skies program where they love tout their use of bio fuels (in reality on a tiny percentage of their aircraft), but it sure sounds good to the media that United "cares" about the environment.

To your comment about Apple's "dedication" for the physically disabled, well, if Apple was really concerned about making products available to the physical disadvantaged, how about the physically disadvantaged who are poor because of their physical disability. There are millions of these people. Where is Apple's compassion for them? With all the money Apple makes from their insane profit margins, they could EASILY provide a financially subsidized iPhone, around $100, for the physically disadvantaged poor. Most U.S. pharmaceutical companies have special pricing for financially disadvantaged people, and those companies make a lot less money than Apple.

At the risk of sounding like a socialist above, I want to be clear that I don't think Apple, or any company, has any obligation to provide lower priced products to low income people. But I hate when Apple or Apple fans love to drone on about Apple's so-called commitment to the environment, race equality, the disabled, gender equality, net neutrality, privacy issues, animal rights, and every other special interest. I want to vomit when I hear that crap.

Bottom line, Apple engages in public relations propaganda because it improves their image and drives profits. They really don't give a damn about anything else, so let's call them what they are, a company focused on making a profit and not some altruistic evangelist trying to "change the world".

 

[joueboy]

They are paying their fair share... according to the messed up tax laws. And Western democracies are 'on their knees with debt' because they are corrupt and the people aren't holding them accountable (even though they have the mechanism to do so).

Fair share? Messed up tax laws? If majority of the businesses are following the laws, why can’t Apple. If the citizens are honestly paying their taxes, why can’t Apple. It’s easy to justify that they do this because we’re talking hundreds of millions. But that’s the same percentage what the government is taking from other businesses. If I made $5000 this month and the government takes 12%, then the other guy made $5 million and the government wants 12%. Then that guy only paid $40k which is $39,940 more than what I paid. Should we act like yeah that’s fine because he contributed more? Pay your dues Apple!

 

[prowlmedia]

Ahhhhhrrrrrr me Heartys. What say we ransack that thar island for the billions of bullion?

 

[KPandian1]

Immoral and utterly disgraceful.

Taxes pay for schools, hospitals, roads and our security. Apple is stealing this infrastructure from us all.

Talk to your lawmaker.

 

[jerryk]

I'm just saying: can I move my profits to that island to avoid taxes? If not, this country would be able to fund and do a lot more and pay our debts if these companies paid their taxes due.

Sure you can. Form a company their for a few thousand. Have people pay your company for your work (i,e. contract). Pay appropriate taxes on it. Or you could be like a lot of companies do. Set up the offshore in the US (Nevada). The big part is being offshore.
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But it isn't JUST the US. This is happening worldwide. Did you not see the drop of The Paradise Papers??

Even Hermione was doing it!

 

[dogslobber]

Apple says they pay more corporate tX than anybody else but neglect to mention that it’s a pittance. If Apple were a rich toff dodging their taxes then the shock and outrage would be deafening. Apple might be legally dodging their tax burden but it’s not an ethical practice. Apple is not an ethical corporation.

 

[davidoloan]

Talk to your lawmaker.

+1. Tim Cook is doing his job.