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Apple Reportedly Suspends Work on Vision Pro 2
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I would agree that the AVP is a state of the art home theatre device. And I'm genuinely pleased for you to be enjoying it - I hope you get many years of entertainment from it. My point was that if this is the main use case, it could be achieved for a fraction of the price, with a fraction of the technological sophistication (e.g. no M2 required).
The Eye-Trek came out in 2001, and provided a virtual 52" screen (big in those days!) for watching DVDs, in a package much smaller and lighter than an AVP. Modern technology could obviously vastly improve on the image quality. Using an AVP for watching movies seems a bit like using an iPhone for just making calls and texting; perfectly valid, but rather under-utilising the tech. Same could be said for using it as a screen for a Mac, or the most-requested feature - an HDMI input for console use etc.
Surf Monkey has a membership to the local high end repertory movie theater that has a 70mm projector in addition to digital.
Television and movies are communal experiences. If you like being drastically isolated when using the device to consume media, good for you. But that doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of people don’t want to do that.
<<Television and movies are communal experiences.>>
You say that as if it's an immutable fact. it's not. It's merely your opinion.
<<If you like being drastically isolated when using the device to consume media, good for you.>>
One person's "drastic isolation" is another person's "immersive experience". As Sly once said, "different strokes for different folks." It doesn't sound like the Apple Vision Pro is for you. Which is probably for the best, as you'll have plenty of money to spend on popcorn at your local high end repertory movie theater. As for me, I enjoy the experience of watching movies and TV shows on the AVP.
You say that as if it's an immutable fact. it's not. It's merely your opinion.
<<If you like being drastically isolated when using the device to consume media, good for you.>>
One person's "drastic isolation" is another person's "immersive experience". As Sly once said, "different strokes for different folks." It doesn't sound like the Apple Vision Pro is for you. Which is probably for the best, as you'll have plenty of money to spend on popcorn at your local high end repertory movie theater. As for me, I enjoy the experience of watching movies and TV shows on the AVP.
Movies grow out of theater. A communal experience. Television grows out of movies. A communal experience. Look at the advertising for TVs for example. What do they show? Groups of people watching together. Consider the well known phenomenon of spouses becoming upset when one watches a show without them. Perhaps the term “Netflix and chill” has crossed your radar at some point? That isn’t about watching the service alone.
I mean, I can go on for pages and pages with examples of Western culture consuming visual and audio content collectively reaching back to the beginning of recorded civilization.
So no, isn’t just my opinion. It’s a fundamental quality of that type of entertainment.
I encourage you to read about ANY virtual reality experience, not just Apple’s. The primary quality is isolation. “Immersive experience” is really more of a marketing term than anything else. You’re not immersed in anything. Humans have far more senses than sight and hearing and those senses are far more subtle than any screen or speaker can replicate.
Your comment aside, the point isn’t whether I personally want one or not. The point is the many blatant issues with the device that will block it from ever being mainstream.
I find the spatial audio tracks on Apple Music to be more immersive when listened to on the APV than through my AirPods Max headphones. The AirPods Max definitely have an edge when it comes to reproducing low frequencies, but I have the APV with its built-in speakers the enge when it comes to conveying a spacious three dimensional sound field.
Again, this is just my opinion. But I was an early adopter of both the AirPods Max headphones and the AVP, so my opinion is based on extensive listening experience. For what it's worth.
I suppose I could be nitpicky and point out that one of the earliest forms of movie exhibition - the Nickelodian machine -- was most definitely not a communal viewing experience, as the machines only allowed for viewing of the short films by a single person. But I'll be generous and concede for the sake of argument that movies have historically been a communal experience. But that tradition has been steadily eroding, first with the introduction of television, then VCRs and laserdisc, and video on smartphones, tablets, etc. Similarly, television may at one time have been a fundamentally communal experience, albeit on a much smaller scale than movies. But the days when the entire family sat around a TV in the living room watching the same programs have long since passed.
A 2018 study by the Bureau of Labor Statistics found that "Among those who spent time watching TV on a given day, 57.2 percent watched TV while with family and 54.3 percent watched TV solo. . . . These numbers sum to more than 100 percent because some people watched TV both with family and while alone, at different times of the day.
Television, capturing America's attention at prime time and beyond
An analysis of one of America’s most popular activities.
www.bls.gov
Another study found that "A total of 51% of TV watchers typically watch television with others, with watching with a spouse or partner being the most common. That said, a significant percentage (47%) normally watch TV alone."
Here's What Watching TV Looks Like for Americans Today
Here's what watching TV looks like for Americans today and how many hours are spent watching TV each day. Find out more from CivicScience here.
civicscience.com
I think it's a real stretch to say that watching TV is fundamentally a communal experience when nearly half of the viewers normally watch TV alone. But hey, that's just my opinion.
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I suppose I could be nitpicky and point out that one of the earliest forms of movie exhibition - the Nickelodian machine -- was most definitely not a communal viewing experience, as the machines only allowed for viewing of the short films by a single person. But I'll be generous and concede for the sake of argument that movies have historically been a communal experience. But that tradition has been steadily eroding, first with the introduction of television, then VCRs and laserdisc, and video on smartphones, tablets, etc. Similarly, television may at one time have been a fundamentally communal experience, albeit on a much smaller scale than movies. But the days when the entire family sat around a TV in the living room watching the same programs have long since passed.
A 2018 study by the Bureau of Labor Statistics found that "Among those who spent time watching TV on a given day, 57.2 percent watched TV while with family and 54.3 percent watched TV solo. . . . These numbers sum to more than 100 percent because some people watched TV both with family and while alone, at different times of the day.
Television, capturing America's attention at prime time and beyond
An analysis of one of America’s most popular activities.
Another study found that "A total of 51% of TV watchers typically watch television with others, with watching with a spouse or partner being the most common. That said, a significant percentage (47%) normally watch TV alone."
Here's What Watching TV Looks Like for Americans Today
Here's what watching TV looks like for Americans today and how many hours are spent watching TV each day. Find out more from CivicScience here.
I think it's a real stretch to say that watching TV is fundamentally a communal experience when nearly half of the viewers normally watch TV alone. But hey, that's just my opinion.
The earliest motion picture machines turned on a spindle and could be viewed by any number of people at once. The Nickelodeon was a very short lived tech that died the instant movie theaters started being opened. “Let me see! Let me see!” In a theater or on a TV everyone can see.
So no, you’re still dead wrong. Movies and TV are communal by nature. That’s just a fact. Sad statistics about the isolation and loneliness epidemic don’t support your thesis. They just illustrate how dehumanized we’ve become thanks to tech companies like Apple and the unhealthy narrowcasting of the Internet.
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Opinion.
Movies used to be communally viewed, pre-VCRs, when you were forced to view them in a theater, as it was the only outlet. The "communal" theater experience has been in decline:
Personally, you couldn't give me free tickets to a movie theater. They are packed with countless rude rubes checking their phones every 5 seconds, talking, coughing and generally acting like fools.
Happy to stay home.
That being said, I guess if you consider couples chilling with Netflix a "communal experience" you have an argument, but the very definition states "community", I don't consider my wife and I a community.
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So the statistics that I have cited showing that nearly half the people who watch TV do so alone doesn't support my thesis that watching TV is not fundamentally a communal experience? I beg to differ. And by the way, the Bureau of Labor Statistics study that I cited pre-dated the pandemic.
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I’d like to still be aspirational and hope that Apple could not introduce more and more ways to isolate yourself.
I find that to be against their core ethos
If the real fundamentals like that fall away, the company really is dead to me
I find that to be against their core ethos
If the real fundamentals like that fall away, the company really is dead to me
Keep in mind that there are ways to make the movie viewing experience on the Apple Vision Pro more communal than it is currrently. I'm sure it's possible to design software that would allow multiple Apple Visio Pro users to simultaneously watch the same movie in the same immersive environment, which each person being represented by an avatar. Of course it woudl be silly for people living in the same household to do this. But if, for example, you have a friend or relative who lives in another state, it might be kind of cool to be able to watch a movie together and interact like you would if you were watching together in the same room.
The historical origins of media are mostly of academic interest. It's a bit like when people talk about how great local shops are; it didn't stop people from shopping online the second that became an option. Or how special it is to listen to a whole album (which it is); with the advent of MP3, people were quick to 'asset strip' them of the best tracks and ignore the rest.
Personally, I do a mix of personal and communal (with my partner) viewing. For some reason she's not interested in watching middle-aged guys repair old computers, but we typically watch dramas and documentaries together. The thing with headsets is that you can only watch content individually, whereas a TV works just as well either way. Even if you have two headsets - for twice the money - you're still fundamentally isolated from each other. At best, you'd have some kind of virtual watch party set up, but that's clearly a cumbersome / inferior experience to just watching a big screen with others.
Personally, I do a mix of personal and communal (with my partner) viewing. For some reason she's not interested in watching middle-aged guys repair old computers, but we typically watch dramas and documentaries together. The thing with headsets is that you can only watch content individually, whereas a TV works just as well either way. Even if you have two headsets - for twice the money - you're still fundamentally isolated from each other. At best, you'd have some kind of virtual watch party set up, but that's clearly a cumbersome / inferior experience to just watching a big screen with others.
Synchronized viewing is a perfect example of a use for AVP. To the best of my knowledge no services offer this capability, with or without AVP. Would be great for couples or friends that are separated on "premier night".
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This seems like a pretty big deal. @Dan Barbera and @Hartley, what are your reactions (or will I have wait until the next MacRumors show?)? @Hartley, I heard in the last MacRumors show that you were going to bite the bullet and buy one once they are available in the UK. Does this change your thinking?
I don't see other headsets selling for 50 bucks or less. Again make it cheap enough and it'll sell in large numbers.
Exactly as you say; make it free and people would "take one"
Would every user find it comfortable or have a use case for it? Absolutely not.
But many would; in asbolute numbers it'd be a lot more users than today. Once it reaches a critical mass; it'll become the social norm.
I'm not playing down the other issues with it; but price is absolutely the first hurdle for the vast majority of people out there.
Wow this article is almost 3 days old and the comment section is at page 22 and still going strong (although it looks like it may be slowing down today). Has Apple ever released a product that elicited this much debate? If not, what is it about this product that is so conviction-stirring and polarizing?
I think many people see Apple's efforts with it as an opportunity cost. Launching a new platform with a bunch of complicated tech will have taken significant engineering effort, diverting resources from either existing products that fans want to see updated, or new products that people wish they were making instead.
We've also lived through a lot of hype about VR in the last decade. The industry has really tried to make it a 'thing', and it's just never caught on. Sony's PSVR2 stopped production in March amid piles of unsold headsets and games development for it is reportedly being cut back. Despite VR having essentially died on its arse, Apple turn up late with a $3500 super VR headset, as if the problem has just been a lack of image quality or sensors.
Apple have a reputation for turning up 'late' to a market, but then smashing it with a properly thought-through implementation. They did it with the iPod vs early MP3 players, and of course the iPhone vs the incumbent Windows Mobile and Nokia feature phones. Some people are keeping the faith, thinking that Apple will be proven right as before, and AVP will end up being another iPhone. Others wonder if Apple are losing their touch.
In some ways, it's a referendum on Tim Cook. He's been widely regarded as a caretaker leader who's just continued product lines initiated by Steve Jobs whilst maximising their profitability. As one might expect given his successful background as the operations guy. The Vision Pro is the first major new platform that's been launched under his tenure, and expected by many to be his legacy from a product perspective. Will it turn out to be a work of prophetic genius? Or a white elephant? Time will tell...
The question is - will anything people have to straps to their heads EVER be widely adopted.
Such an item, it would seem, would never become a part of our practical lives.
Even with regular lightweight eyeglasses, which many people need to see with, are ditched in favor of contacts since even they can get annoying to wear all the time.
I have to call you out for a great post. Excellent points.
Couldn't agree more with everything you said.
The 'isolation' of a vr headset is tolerable at first, but unless you're a hard core loner, the isolation will eventually become untenable.
Your post and the one after it are great examples of why I often like to read the last pages of threads on here: It takes a while before you start seeing posts that are really well thought out, not just a 'this was on my 2024 bingo card' kind of stuff.
I wonder how many of the people around here who are bemoaning the so-called isolation of VR headsets have actually experienced watching video on an Apple Vision Pro.
Earlier today, I watched the "Battle of the Bastards" episode of Game of Thrones on my AVP. I watched it on the Max app using the Iron Throne Room immersive environment. The experience of watching one of the best episodes of one of my favoriate TV series in that environment far surpassed any experience I have had watching TV in a conventional home theater. It's not even close.
Does that mean I'll become a shut in, isolating myself from the rest of the world 24/7? No. But there's nothing wrong with a little escapism. And the AVP is an incredible entertainment device. It's not going to sell in large numbers at $3500. But if Apple can get the price down while preserving the visual quality, I can see this becoming the "walkman for the eyes" that at least some of us has been waiting for.
Earlier today, I watched the "Battle of the Bastards" episode of Game of Thrones on my AVP. I watched it on the Max app using the Iron Throne Room immersive environment. The experience of watching one of the best episodes of one of my favoriate TV series in that environment far surpassed any experience I have had watching TV in a conventional home theater. It's not even close.
Does that mean I'll become a shut in, isolating myself from the rest of the world 24/7? No. But there's nothing wrong with a little escapism. And the AVP is an incredible entertainment device. It's not going to sell in large numbers at $3500. But if Apple can get the price down while preserving the visual quality, I can see this becoming the "walkman for the eyes" that at least some of us has been waiting for.
I haven't tried it but this is the story I hear again and again from owners. The movie watching experience is the best thanks to the hi res OLED screens and the sound. This is the one activity that people reliably return to again and again
But that is also a problem. It's too much money and technology for this one killer app. What's more, for the price it should've been better. The FOV is a bit narrow compared to the quest or index. You get a home theater size feel but not like Dolby theater or IMAX feel
I don't think Apple will scale down their vision for the AVP, though. We're not going to get the Apple Cinema Vision. But maybe Apple will have learned what people really use it for and improve or keep the movie watching experience the same on the AV while skimping on the other functions
Yes - we have
The product offering, and that of a variety of competitors, and all the pros/cons are well known and have been experienced
You're excited about AVP - that's great!
Not everyone is -- but we don't all have to agree, so it's all good 👍