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My PS3 doesn't charge for updates, my Wii doesn't charge for updates. Microsoft distributes Service Packs with new features that cost nothing, and so on. Apple itself will happily distribute updates for OSes that give new features without charging.(Safari, Camera RAW support updates (for iLife), BootCamp before it was included in the OS, etc.) Why is Apple the only company claiming they can't provide software improvements to iPod without charging?

Not sure if folks are being a bit sloppy with updates versus upgrades.

Updates are typically bug fixes and similar issues. You had a version of java, Safari, BootCamp, Camera RAW , etc. and it was

i. buggy
ii. had a security flaw.
iii. missing a minor module to handle one of many funky devices.

No major new functionally being delivered. Probably would should have been delivered in the first place ( in case of the first two) or would have been delivered if the product had shipped now (e.g., similar range of current cameras/phones sync/interoperate with at date of ship.)

All of that is usually delivered through "Software Update..." on Mac OS X. (or via iTunes)

Mac OS X 10.5.2 -> 10.5.3 -> 10.5.4 -> ... etc. free.


Upgrades are something different. That is substantively new functionality and most companies make you pay.

Mac OS X 10.4.1 -> 10.5.1 -> 10.6.1 -> ... etc. not free.
(exactly the same model for Windows. )

The hocus pocus that Apple uses is that the expected upgrade costs are built into the iPhone pricing. Some of that cash is put aside and incremented used to cover the costs of the upgrades. (It is unclear if there was/is some kind of iPhone cash slush fund that sits around only being recognized later when it is "due" so pay taxes/expense on it later or it clearly just arrives later) That was much less hocus pocus when Apple was skimming a slice of the monthly bill along with AT&T. It was also clearly a "motivation" for why they should be skimming something off the monthly bill every month. That skim is gone now. It may be the case that AT&T pays for iPhones still partially on an installment plan and the money still trickles in from the bill but isn't technically part of the monthly fee.

There is a bit of bogeyman SOX made us make you pay for upgrades in what Apple talks about. More likely the opposite half here. They are doing something funky with the iPhone subscription money (e.g., make it wink-in at the speed desired to some extent so that quarterly numbers always drumbeat up. Microsoft did that for a long time too. The have such large amounts of stupid large amounts of cash floating around can nudge it slightly to get more even returns without grossly violating accounting rules. )

Turning the relatively minor updates on the Touch into money making activities is part of the iPhone hocus pocus, not standard practice.
What Apple wants is a subscription model where folks deliver up money ongoing basis. There was no monthly bill to attach to the Touch to so are riding on the updates (instead of the more widely spaced upgrades. )
[Edit: on muddle the waters thing I think Apple did was do an update but add some more apps to the touch. The goofy thing was that these apps probably should have been there in the first place. Needed no new development but were just artificially restricted to the iPhone. Whether that is an upgrade or update depends upon the point of few. Many folks would probably see themselves having already paid for apps that existed at the launch date for which Apple is billing R&D but just didn't ship. Apple can go Scrooge McDuck bean counter and say 'oh the touch was $10 cheaper because we didn't. It is new to the cost structure". That really has jack to do with SOX per se. ]


The other slippery slope Apple has at its discretion is what is "significant enough" to be an upgrade as opposed to an update. Usually in an update no software that you currently have should break or become obsolete. With upgrades that is more on the table. For example iPhone 2.0.3 shouldn't make you have to download a new version of any of your Apps (unless they were written to a bug/defect/flaw). On the other hand iPhone 3.0 may nuke some of your apps. So in the PS3 , Xbox , etc. (other embedded systems ) usually all you get are updates because backward compatibility is paramount throughout the life of the machine. May get a few new features but those are perhaps features that were running buggy on initial release and the vendor held them back for a while to get them right before release. (sometimes that will look funky because it is a big feature step....but happens. )
 
Apple is simply the ONLY recession-proof IT company in the world, ready to become the BIGGEST corporation in its segment...there is absolutely NO competition to this string of astoundingly unmatchable results. MS is a joke, as well as any of its weak OEM partners.

With the best OS, the best smartphone, the media players, the best digital media store and the best computer lineup ever, what else can one say?

Any PC fanboys out there? What about the STUPID people who said that the "laptop hunters" ads were working? Go eat some crow, guys...Apple is gonna buy MS sooner than later just to put it out of its misery for a better world.

MS IS DEAD. DELL IS DEAD.

Apple's numbers for this quarter were good, but don't get ahead of your self

RIM are doing rather well... and microsoft and dell aren't going anywhere soon.
 
Good post by deconstruct60, he (or she) is right on the money but let me add just a few things:

* UPDATEs are generally warrantee issues. That is, we shipped some broken stuff, sorry about that, here are the fixes. No one will charge for warrantee fixes. Yes Virginia, software has warrantees just like hardware.

* UPGRADES are new functionality. Will we (royal "we," I don't work for Apple) charge for them? Damn betcha, those 3000 software developers we have around the globe don't work for free, you know.

* SOX compliance tends to be not so black-and-white.

and

* Independent accounting consultancies make the decisions as to how to comply to SOX for each company

thus

* Not all companies make the same decisions as to how to comply to SOX.

I have entertained the notion that Apple thinks this whole SOX thing is brain-dead so it keeps hauling out the SOX card when it can. Just a theory.

Unfair disclosure - I deal with these issues regularly at a Fortune 100 company. It's not cut and dried, and there are times when we argue heatedly with our accounting consultants, but we never win, the SOX card trumps us.

All the same, I think SOX is a decent thing, just needs some more work.
 
Apple is simply the ONLY recession-proof IT company in the world, ready to become the BIGGEST corporation in its segment...there is absolutely NO competition to this string of astoundingly unmatchable results. MS is a joke, as well as any of its weak OEM partners.

With the best OS, the best smartphone, the media players, the best digital media store and the best computer lineup ever, what else can one say?

Any PC fanboys out there? What about the STUPID people who said that the "laptop hunters" ads were working? Go eat some crow, guys...Apple is gonna buy MS sooner than later just to put it out of its misery for a better world.

MS IS DEAD. DELL IS DEAD.

Haha I always enjoy reading your 'MS IS DEAD' posts. Very humorous indeed - comedy is good for the soul.
 
You should at least sell half your shares. The market is bound to contract especially if we become more like the chinese and people have less and less home computers.

True this most likely will happen as computer become for the elite and professionals as home computing will shift to every day devices. That saying things will most likely shift toward computing on smaller devices like cell phones and similar devices like music players. This is why Apple is capitalizing on the iPhone's and iPod's App features.
 
Apple is simply the ONLY recession-proof IT company in the world, ready to become the BIGGEST corporation in its segment...there is absolutely NO competition to this string of astoundingly unmatchable results. MS is a joke, as well as any of its weak OEM partners.

With the best OS, the best smartphone, the media players, the best digital media store and the best computer lineup ever, what else can one say?

Any PC fanboys out there? What about the STUPID people who said that the "laptop hunters" ads were working? Go eat some crow, guys...Apple is gonna buy MS sooner than later just to put it out of its misery for a better world.

MS IS DEAD. DELL IS DEAD.

I sit on the Mac and PC side of the fence. Not to burst your bubble, but have you experienced Windows 7 and seen what Dell is developing? Companies are getting smart and following Apple's style. MS might be acting desperate with the Ads and new stores, but it is getting them business. PC people have some nice products coming there way, new OS and better looking laptops.
 
Good post by deconstruct60, he (or she) is right on the money
Yes, good post by deconstruct60.

but let me add just a few things:

* UPDATEs are generally warrantee issues. That is, we shipped some broken stuff, sorry about that, here are the fixes. No one will charge for warrantee fixes. Yes Virginia, software has warrantees just like hardware.
While I appreciate your point, Apple EULA specifically says there is no warranty. Furthermore, if there is a warranty, there must be an effective date. Apple provides no effective date relative to date of sale for security updates. As many know, I demand five years of security updates from the date of retail sale. If you were right, I wouldn't be sitting here asking to at least be told how many years of support can be expected. Instead, Apple discontinues support without warning, generally when they release a 2nd new OS.

* Not all companies make the same decisions as to how to comply to SOX.
Yeah, there is Apple. And then there is everybody else.

I have entertained the notion that Apple thinks this whole SOX thing is brain-dead so it keeps hauling out the SOX card when it can. Just a theory.
I think it was true at the beginning. Now, people seem to be accepting the situation.

Unfair disclosure - I deal with these issues regularly at a Fortune 100 company. It's not cut and dried, and there are times when we argue heatedly with our accounting consultants, but we never win, the SOX card trumps us.
Perhaps you can answer then: Can't Apple just reserve some of the iPod Touch revenue against future upgrades?
 
hell yeah.. the best in all classes...

Apple is simply the ONLY recession-proof IT company in the world, ready to become the BIGGEST corporation in its segment...there is absolutely NO competition to this string of astoundingly unmatchable results. MS is a joke, as well as any of its weak OEM partners.

With the best OS, the best smartphone, the media players, the best digital media store and the best computer lineup ever, what else can one say?

Any PC fanboys out there? What about the STUPID people who said that the "laptop hunters" ads were working? Go eat some crow, guys...Apple is gonna buy MS sooner than later just to put it out of its misery for a better world.

MS IS DEAD. DELL IS DEAD.

good reply but they're not dead, and won't be anytime soon, because ignorance is cheap.

Steve Job's dream is finally coming true...
 
Not sure if folks are being a bit sloppy with updates versus upgrades.

This is precisely the point - updates and upgrades are not the same thing. Upgrades typically provide new features and functionality while updates do not. The iPod Touch runs an OS, and upgrades to OSs typically cost money, regardless of the platform. I'm certain that most iPod Touch users would much prefer to upgrade their OS for a nominal fee rather than having to purchase a new unit to gain access to new features and functionality. This is one of the many advantages of having software-centric buttons and keys - an attribute which many Pre owners wish they had available to them for the purpose of bypassing the micro-keyboard built onto their devices, having the option of screen typing, on a larger screen, in landscape mode. Charging a modest fee for system upgrades which provide new features and functionality is not at all unreasonable.
 
This is precisely the point - updates and upgrades are not the same thing. Upgrades typically provide new features and functionality while updates do not. The iPod Touch runs an OS, and upgrades to OSs typically cost money, regardless of the platform. I'm certain that most iPod Touch users would much prefer to upgrade their OS for a nominal fee rather than having to purchase a new unit to gain access to new features and functionality. This is one of the many advantages of having software-centric buttons and keys - an attribute which many Pre owners wish they had available to them for the purpose of bypassing the micro-keyboard built onto their devices, having the option of screen typing, on a larger screen, in landscape mode. Charging a modest fee for system upgrades which provide new features and functionality is not at all unreasonable.
You're playing a name game again. I should start calling an update that adds new features and functionality an upgrade then? :confused:
 
The truth is, we pay for whatever companies charge for...of course with the stipulation that we want said thing.

Take SP2 being free on windows xp, but basically being a new OS...and apple charging a 4.99$ activation fee on wireless N activation, but free SATA2 activation. Everything is uneven, no simple model exists to explain all the various pricing structures. Anyone remember windows 98 gold and the 98SE fee?


Oh, and linux is still free.... :D
 
Apple Reports $1.23 Billion Profit for Q3 2009, Best Non-Holiday Quarter Ever

You're welcome, Apple. :D

Going to snag me a new iPod touch this September. Make it good...
 
The truth is, we pay for whatever companies charge for...of course with the stipulation that we want said thing.

Take SP2 being free on windows xp, but basically being a new OS..

XP SP2 was a huge, massive bug/security fix. There were no new APIs or major new functionality. XP SP2 was what XP should have been in the first place. Microsoft shipped some kludged approximation of a finished OS and that shipped the stable one later.



.and apple charging a 4.99$ activation fee on wireless N activation,

Go back to smithrh post above about the possibility Apple just being "Anti SOX" and doing obnoxious stuff and just labeling it SOX. I'm in that camp too.


That smelled big time. Flashback for those who have forgotten.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...80211n_unlocking_fee_on_intel_mac_owners.html

Apple shipped with the N hardware abilities turned off just using it in backward compatibility mode. Somewhat prudently held back turning on N standard stuff because standard wasn't officially finalized yet with absolute final vote. (You know they had versions of the firmware tracking the standard in the labs and there was zero change in price when the N turned on version finally came. )

If they had released with pre-standardization N firmware and then had to issue an update to bring into final compliance that would have been a simple update, not upgrade. By holding back something that was ready that could be updated it magically becomes are upgrade.... crock of cow manure. They could have billed for a pre-standard N (or "N capable" ) feature.

Features that get held up because of logistics ( didn't quite make final build but intended for this release, the standards body votes once every full moon, etc. ) that stuff is updates not upgrades.






but free SATA2 activation.

The would have been an even bigger crock since the previous versions of the laptop had shipped the exact same hardware with it turned on. Again a feature that was already present but just set to the "off" position by the firmware.

Charge money for putting back a feature that you took away?

That's was a defect. [ Or became a defect when someone OK'ed running those new models at SATA 2 speeds and the spec slightly changed. ]


Oh, and linux is still free.... :D

Didn't Redhat get inserted into the Standard and Poor's index in the last week or so? Maybe not everyone, but if want updates and upgrades for linux that have some warrantee properties associated with it... it is just free as in speech not free as in beer.
 
Did you mean "every one"?

"Everyone" is a pronoun that means "every person", which doesn't make sense.
Yes, I meant each and everyone, as in every person featured in the ads. How ruthless and insensitive can one be, to dismiss a character, such as Lauren, to the banal category of "which doesn't make sense?" Keep adding insult to injury...
 
Unfortunately, the cheap Windows 7 offer is a very limited offer and will cost about £75 normally, I'm ok though as I've got my pre-order in. :)

Snow Leopard should only be about £20 and I haven't heard of any limits to it's availability.

True. I think SL will be £30 given Apple's bloody 1:1 pricing ratios between dollars and pounds though. :(
 
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