Once again, updates and system upgrades are two different things. Last I heard, MS was actually going to charge a hefty sum for their new system upgrade. Point updates remain free on the iPod touch, as do updates for OS X and SPs for Windows.
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Apple Reports $1.23 Billion Profit for Q3 2009, Best Non-Holiday Quarter Ever
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Semantics then? A choice of words?
Should I have said BIOS upgrade as it completely erases and installs new firmware?
Dunno. My pre-order copy of W7 was £45. That's fairly comparable to the £30 SL will cost me.
Your argument seems to be that any computing device will always get updates of any form. Thus either one must charge for all updates, use a subscription accounting method or conclude that it is impossible to comply with this aspect of the accounting rules and thus ignore them.
But ignoring any law you consider illogical or impractical might not be the best strategy if you are a high-profile company.
It includes ExpressGate and the low level firmware interface.
How many lines of code before ASUS can start charging like Apple does?
I have to agree but sadly that has to go along with Apple's interpretation of it.
The fact that YOU interpret a BIOS upgrade as equivalent to a major OS update does not make it illegal or fraudulent, nor even outrageous, for one company to interpret a BIOS upgrade as not requiring charging for it and another company to interpret a major OS update to require it.
Maybe at some point a court will decide how many lines of code require charging. Until that is settled you cannot fault either company.It includes ExpressGate and the low level firmware interface.
How many lines of code before ASUS can start charging like Apple does?
I have to agree but sadly that has to go along with Apple's interpretation of it.
And you still seem to fail to distinguish between 'new lines of code' and 'new major features' as listed in the product description.
How many lines of code do system updates contain? If the upgrade in questions contains new apps and/or features, which are heavily advertised, then such a move could potentially avoid legal entanglements down the road.It includes ExpressGate and the low level firmware interface.
How many lines of code before ASUS can start charging like Apple does?
I have to agree but sadly that has to go along with Apple's interpretation of it.
Apparently you think that I can't be reasonable. I don't agree with Apple's interpretation given my experiences with many other manufacturers. I'll just continue on not buying any more Apple products and voicing my opinions. I think that's more than reasonable enough.
Apple shouldn't post any changelogs then otherwise they'd be advertising new features.
Should I even mention Easter Eggs or hidden new applications or features?
Catch 22, go figure.Apple shouldn't post any changelogs then otherwise they'd be advertising new features.
I have seen Easter Eggs or hidden new applications or features to be advertised.Apparently you think that I can't be reasonable. I don't agree with Apple's interpretation given my experiences with many other manufacturers. I'll just continue on not buying any more Apple products and voicing my opinions. I think that's more than reasonable enough.
Apple shouldn't post any changelogs then otherwise they'd be advertising new features.
Should I even mention Easter Eggs or hidden new applications or features?
Just wait till the 1st gen iPhones reach the 2 year & 1 day anniversary. They will no longer be under subscription accounting. Any feature updates made available to them will fall under these same Sarbanes-Oxley rules.
I can see the lawsuits ready to be filed. If Apple does charge for iPhone updates for 2+ year old models then the owners will sue
If they don't charge for the updates then iPod Touch owners will sue 
That is a great quarter result for the period that Steve wasn't even there. I know a lot of people thought his departure would hurt Apple, but it looks like it has the right direction with or without Steve at the helm.
Fine, but it is misdirection. Apple already stated that they charged for firmware because of SarbOx, not because of the fact the poster gave. The 'fact' is a result of the fraud, not the other way around.\
No, I am not implying that. I am pointing out that the first time Apple started charging for firmware updates, they said it was because of Sarbanes-Oxley. Now that they have 'gotten away with it,' there is this distinction between updates and upgrades. Tell me, how many 'updates' have there been to 1.x iPod Touch software since the 'upgrade' to 2.x?dmann said:
Apple is beleaguered.
I thought this about this same statement. I bet PC fan boys are now just going to concentrate on the iPod sales slip from a year ago. Never mind that most iPod sales are during the Christmas sales season. The flame wars will never end in the PC Fan boyz puny little minds.
The best way to demonstrate Apple isn't out in left field is to show any other examples of a company charging for updates and claiming it is because of Sarb-Ox.
It was just a way to get the users paying Apple more money, it worked, and now Fan boys are right here in this forum defending it.
My PS3 doesn't charge for updates, my Wii doesn't charge for updates. Microsoft distributes Service Packs with new features that cost nothing, and so on. Apple itself will happily distribute updates for OSes that give new features without charging.(Safari, Camera RAW support updates (for iLife), BootCamp before it was included in the OS, etc.) Why is Apple the only company claiming they can't provide software improvements to iPod without charging?
Unfortunately, the cheap Windows 7 offer is a very limited offer and will cost about £75 normally, I'm ok though as I've got my pre-order in.
Snow Leopard should only be about £20 and I haven't heard of any limits to it's availability.
That doesn't say anything about the $500 gap between the $999 Macbook and the upper end of that range.
I don't think anyone is honestly pushing for Apple to deliver the lowest cost portable. (perhaps some on the fridge, but they are likely part of the anti everything crowd ). The $500-600 gap between where Apple stop and the rest of the market is huge in relative terms to the price of the devices sold. As increasing numbers of laptops fall below the $999 mark that do not compromise on keyboard and performance ( whatever else they want to pull out as a key customer value) then it represents a problem.
If the analysts wanted to ask a more insightful question it would have been why does the macbook look so weird now. Is Apple going to expand the range (presumably down) or just leave it as an oddball with just one primary config.
The netbooks are more so indicative of another whole tier below where Apple stops. There is still the range above netbooks that is not addressed.
If Apple wants to stop the size constraint at full sized keyboard then is somewhat a match to the convention of what they have to offer.
Also a chuckle how a couple quotes below that Apple doesn't see a huge problem with the race to the bottom on App Store application prices.
For a $399-499 device Apple wants the screen size fixed around 3-4" instead of the netbook 9-11". The margins are higher for the smaller, cheaper screen. Another chuckle because that has even smaller keyboard and less performance.
Just wait till the 1st gen iPhones reach the 2 year & 1 day anniversary. They will no longer be under subscription accounting. Any feature updates made available to them will fall under these same Sarbanes-Oxley rules.
I can see the lawsuits ready to be filed. If Apple does charge for iPhone updates for 2+ year old models then the owners will sue
You make a good point. The answer is that Apple can just start giving updates for free. If they want to cling to their SarbOx explanation, they can just claim it is because of all the App Store revenues that the updated OS provides the platform for.
Wrongo. That is saying Palm will be providing updates for free. Find me a company that is charging and blaming Sarb-Ox.
You see, Apple can just as easily provide iPod Touch updates for free under the subscription accounting model. They just have to reserve a small amount of the sale price of an iPod Touch to be recognized over the time period covered. They choose not to do so, so they can charge twice.
Pretty amazing but I think people are spending money on items that they get "value" from. They are buying Apple computers because they not only see the ease of use and all the stuff Apple markets towards (green friendly etc..) they realize 2 years down the road their laptop is worth about 75% or so of what they paid. There's not a Dell, HP, Compaq (pick your brand) Windows based machine out there that will retains it's value like Apple products. Top that off with the fact the avid users tend to take very good care of their gear, partially due to the investment they make on the initial purchase.
I converted a couple of years ago and as I am still amazed that any day of the week I can walk into either of the local Apple stores near me and there is always a line to check out, or a waiting list to talk to specialist. The place simply is always busy, that alone was enough to buy stock in Apple, simply amazing to watch.
I converted a couple of years ago and as I am still amazed that any day of the week I can walk into either of the local Apple stores near me and there is always a line to check out, or a waiting list to talk to specialist. The place simply is always busy, that alone was enough to buy stock in Apple, simply amazing to watch.
You should at least sell half your shares. The market is bound to contract especially if we become more like the chinese and people have less and less home computers.