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Dear Apple...

I own two iMacs, a Macbook Pro, and an old iBook (as well as various iPods, iPhones, and an AppleTV). I will not buy one of your products with this restriction in place. I've never had to replace or needed to upgrade a drive in one of your products, but just the fact that you won't let me (or rather - you want to force me to pay YOU way more than the drive is worth to do it for me) is enough to turn me away from your hardware.

Hopefully this is just an experiment and the outcry will convince them not to continue this on any other new hardware.
 
Firewire drive?

I know this is a crappy option, but could you have a permanent external Firewire drive attached as the target start up drive when the internal drive fails?
 
I own two iMacs, a Macbook Pro, and an old iBook (as well as various iPods, iPhones, and an AppleTV). I will not buy one of your products with this restriction in place. I've never had to replace or needed to upgrade a drive in one of your products, but just the fact that you won't let me (or rather - you want to force me to pay YOU way more than the drive is worth to do it for me) is enough to turn me away from your hardware.

Hopefully this is just an experiment and the outcry will convince them not to continue this on any other new hardware.

OWC is wrong. There is no outcry, only loud ignorance.
 
I know this is a crappy option, but could you have a permanent external Firewire drive attached as the target start up drive when the internal drive fails?

Or you can just replace the failed hard drive inside if you have delicate hands and a bit of skill. The OWC article is wrong, as it has been proven so many times already.
 
Nope, that's what I've been trying to say for the last 250 posts ... it's just bad propaganda unfortunately. While people stop buying iMacs, I am enjoying mine with blazing 500MB/s read & write speeds:D

I haven't read the whole thread. My first reply was I guess after some 400 posts.

But thanks for the reply. OWC needs to publicly apologize.
 
4 pin has been around for decades, how exactly do you figure these are more standard? They aren't standard period.
Fact - You cannot replace the HD in the current iMac, without a workaround/hack. Your "facts" are actually your "assumptions", of which many would question, expecially the last one? Standard?? what exactly is your "assumption" of standard?
Read the SATA standard before you even try to join the discussion. You clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Maybe OWC has a job for you... The SATA standard defines 3 kinds of power connectors! These connectors are completely different from the 4 pin molex you are talking about. Do your homework and start with this: SATA, Cables, connectors, and ports & SATA-IO. You'll see that there might by only one connector on the logic board for power that doesn't look standard, however, the other end that goes into the drive (hdd, ssd or optical) is standard. According to the fact that many people from various countries and forums have successfully (aka without any problems) replaced the standard drive with something else it is very safe to say that the connectors are indeed standard.

Since there is no temperature sensor connector like in the previous models it is not unlikely that SMART is being used to read out the internal temperature sensor of the drive. However, some drives do not have this internal sensor and they will either output 0 or 128 degrees Celsius as the temperature. Apparently the iMac is smart enough to know this as it does not ref up the fans. That is the only assumption you can make of the situation. Everything else is just plain old SATA standard.

If we look at law this would make OWC claim illegal since it seems to be nothing but slander & libel. Having the story as it is now on Macrumors is about the same thing.
 
That's why I got it next day and added the SSD myself. Ignore the OWC propaganda, the new 2011 iMacs can be upgraded just fine.

Or you can just replace the failed hard drive inside if you have delicate hands and a bit of skill. The OWC article is wrong, as it has been proven so many times already.

Sorry you don't understand the issue. OWC already said you are perfectly able to add an SSD to the 2011 iMac. You haven't made some amazing discovery here.

Read the article again:
http://blog.macsales.com/10146-apple-further-restricts-upgrade-options-on-new-imacs

And if you really have some revelation that proves they are wrong, post in the comments section. They are actively responding to feedback and questions from Apple customers.
 
Sorry you don't understand the issue. OWC already said you are perfectly able to add an SSD to the 2011 iMac. You haven't made some amazing discovery here.

Read the article again:
http://blog.macsales.com/10146-apple-further-restricts-upgrade-options-on-new-imacs

And if you really have some revelation that proves they are wrong, post in the comments section. They are actively responding to feedback and questions from Apple customers.

If you would read past the 1st post, you will see that my discovery was that there was no thermal sensor on the power cable since I converted the 7 wire apple connector to a bog standard 4 wire sata and the iMac still manages to read the temperature from the hard drive.

A few post later, users have successfully replaced the stock 1Tb Seagate with 2TB WD Caviar Black and later 3TB Seagate XT. Temperatures still reading fine, fans under control and AHT passed.

OWC comments are censored. I posted but they didn't make it.
 
Ostensibly, for reliability purposes

Apple is always trying to push the forefront of reliable and green hardware. At least in their opinion. So, they probably justified this customer firmware to themselves based on the fact that, while the drive mechanism is functional, the drive has better power management and less likelihood of overheating (and head crashes for notebooks).

Alternatives require OS involvement, and the OS may not respond quickly enough to certain events.

So what Apple has accomplished is to stretch the AVERAGE lifespan of drives in their computers. The infant mortality doesn't matter due to warranty. They may also have stretched the maximum lifespan. But 6 years out, when the drive dies, you're SoL. Except that Apple expects you to have bought another Mac by then, which you probably will have. Because you'll be chasing the coolest new Intel CPU. I mean Sandy Bridge is the bee's knees, right? :)
 
All of you voting this down and complaining and calling Apple names... you all know you'll still keep buying their products anyway!
 
If you would read past the 1st post, you will see that my discovery was that there was no thermal sensor on the power cable since I converted the 7 wire apple connector to a bog standard 4 wire sata and the iMac still manages to read the temperature from the hard drive.

A few post later, users have successfully replaced the stock 1Tb Seagate with 2TB WD Caviar Black and later 3TB Seagate XT. Temperatures still reading fine, fans under control and AHT passed.

OWC comments are censored. I posted but they didn't make it.

Did you have to convert the connector to get it done? I would argue OWC is still correct if it requires users to mess with internal cabling to replace a hard drive.

There is software out there specifically designed to deal with the issue. And customers have been using it for earlier generation iMac builds.
 
If you would read past the 1st post, you will see that my discovery was that there was no thermal sensor on the power cable since I converted the 7 wire apple connector to a bog standard 4 wire sata and the iMac still manages to read the temperature from the hard drive.

A few post later, users have successfully replaced the stock 1Tb Seagate with 2TB WD Caviar Black and later 3TB Seagate XT. Temperatures still reading fine, fans under control and AHT passed.

OWC comments are censored. I posted but they didn't make it.

Ah well, that's being a bitch.
 
For me, the lack of HDD upgrading is precisely why I've kind of avoided the iMac. When it comes to anything that behaves like a desktop, the two most important things I need to replace are:

1. Memory
2. Hard drive.

If the laptops I bought from them can do it, why not the bigger model?
It's almost a shame Apple doesn't have a competitively priced desktop or tower. The only thing based on the classic expansion theory is the Mac Pro. Yep. Only the most costly top of the line stuff. Yet in the PC world, the cheapest things money can buy for the hardware and full upgrade options are the Towers.

I love some of Apple's products. That's why I bought them. But they definitely make some of their line unattractive to a point. True, external HDs work well for a system meant to stay in the workroom, just as long as you have ones that match or beat the connection speeds of the internal drive.
 
Did you have to convert the connector to get it done? I would argue OWC is still correct if it requires users to mess with internal cabling to replace a hard drive.

There is software out there specifically designed to deal with the issue. And customers have been using it for earlier generation iMac builds.

Nope, I used a plain y-splitter for SATA power because that what it is, nothing less, nothing more. Is totally reversible and doesn't alter the original cabling in any way.

The same, claimed to be special SATA power cable, is now being used to power both SSD and HDD. The iMac clearly reads the correct temperatures and fan speeds are where they should be, approx. 900rpm. AHT passed successfully.
 
Serious audio and video users should always use a separate drive and not the boot one to record this type of information.

I guess you never heard of the word portability. :rolleyes:

It's not always practical to have dangling drives hanging off a laptop when it needs to be moved often (Having to move the FW audio device is bad enough). I backup to an external. There is no reason what-so-ever to record music to an external. The internal 7200 RPM is far higher performance than even FW800 is capable of and the faster the drive the more tracks you can simultaneously lay down. If anything, it would be better to boot off an external and lay the tracks down on the internal if maximum performance is your goal unless you have an eSata card (not likely on most newer MBPs since they have no expansion, although that should change with Thunderbolt). It wouldn't be good for either setup if the external drive got accidentally unplugged and with chintzy/loose FW connectors, it's a real possibility. (no danger of that one with a single internal).

Your comment that "…where everyone else has the same needs and desires as yourself or they must be crazy" applies to you as well.

Mine is just a single example of why someone might want to replace the internal drive to the poster that implied no one would ever need to. Your post seems to serve no purpose other than to try to argue about it. Price is another good reason. It's often cheaper to get a small internal drive (or with ram) and replace it yourself with a larger model than pay Apple's exorbitant "tax" for such things.

You must be on Ballmer's payroll. It's not our fault if you're poor and can't afford a new Mac. Enjoy your crappy PC with clunky old Windows on it....

This has to be one of the most elitist replies I've ever seen on here. The guy says not everyone can afford to buy a new Mac every 3 or 4 years and this is what he gets in response. :rolleyes:

Heck, I'm not poor, but that doesn't mean I've got nothing better to do with my money than plonk down a couple of thousand every 2-3 years for a speed bump I don't necessarily even need. $2000 buys a lot of toys or a nice vacation.

Regardless, disposable income is no reason for Apple to artificially limit the lifespan of a given product to 2-4 year lifespan. Most people that feel they 'need' to replace their computer every other year tend to be into PC gaming and we know the Mac isn't a good choice for that. Some people should be asking themselves why they feel the need to buy a new Mac every other year. Microsoft Office bogging down? I doubt it. Even with today's inefficient/wasteful programming, there's only so much power needed to run a word processor. That Intel demonstration of Thunderbolt powering the new Final Cut Pro editing 4 1080P streams at once was impressive, but you'll need a PC to verify that BD copy since Apple won't allow BD playback (even for a Mac Pro doing Pro work). :rolleyes:

Macs used to represent good value compared to PCs for shelf life. Most Macs that could run Puma could easily run Jaguar, Panther and Tiger as well (and many hacked to run Leopard). This kept software available and the computer useful for a long time. Users would upgrade because they needed/wanted more power, not because of planned obsolescence and that's the way it should be. There is nothing behind planned obsolescence other than greed, IMO.

You can still buy a good PC today and it will most assuredly run new software 7-8 years from now. It'll be slower than new machines, but it will still be useful for many things and a lot of new software. I don't think the same can be said for a new Mac purchased today (unless they're booted into Windows exclusively at that time) and that is 100% due to Steve Jobs cutting off machines (i.e. planned obsolescence). It's even worse with the Mac Pro which is supposedly designed to be upgraded. But how many CPU upgrades have we seen for it in recent years? How many new GPUs support Mac Pros that are only a couple of years old? The answer sadly is not many. There's always some reason the new GPU won't work in the older machine and that's pathetic.

BTW, a fully decked out 12-core Mac Pro from Apple with 64GB of ram, two 2TB hard drives and an ATI 5870 GPU costs $10,399 ($6999 with 8GB ram). I don't care who you are; that's a lot of money for a computer that doesn't even come with USB3 and cannot add Thunderbolt in the future period. I wouldn't expect more than one GPU upgrade to ever be available for it either based on past observations from Apple (although many more cards would quite probably work in it under Windows).
 
But it seems now, that when that happens to the main drive on your iMac, you're left with two options - buy a new drive from Apple and have them install it via one of their Authorized Service Centers, or enjoy the rather large Apple logoed paperweight on your desk.

It should be pointed out that there is a third option - you can hook up an external drive and boot from that. Not a great solution, but certainly better than option #2 "paperweight". And just for the record, I'm not defending the proprietary setup, it's a terrible idea, just commenting on this one point.
 
I hope in four years time they will have cheap drives with Thunderbolt connector.
This will not happen. Just as you do not see hard drives with onboard Firewire connector. That isn't its intended usage. Thunderbolt is to compete/replace Firewire and eSata.
 
Being an AIO machine, I don't see this as being too big of an issue. However an HDD has an extremely high rate of failure compared to any other component in the iMac. The standard 1yr warranty is frankly too short. As they restrict the ability from the consumer to service the machine, the warranty should be lengthened to account for this.

Does anybody know what Apple charges to replace an HDD out of warranty?
 
As they restrict the ability from the consumer to service the machine, the warranty should be lengthened to account for this.

Apple is not restricting this. It is only OWC propaganda. People have already changed the disks into the 2011 iMac without any of the issued OWC talks about. They are either incompetent or trying to gather some more business by misinforming the masses.
 
The assumptions in this thread are quite atrocious...

There are people in here who have successfully replaced the hard drive with larger capacity drives as well as SSD's. Not sure why people continue to ignore the FACTS, that people have replaced the drives, and instead believe some article that was posted on the internet.

Have any of you actually tried replacing the hard drive? Didn't think so because not one person has come in this thread and confirmed that these reports are true. Now there are some threads around the net saying there were problems upgrading a hard drive, but this is likely due to some other problem, and OWC just posted this article trying to get their name in the news. It is pretty obvious that OWC does NOT know what they are talking about at this point.

Those who continue to say "this is terrible, now i can't upgrade my imac, i'm never buying apple again" How many of you would actually upgrade your hard drive in the first place? I'm assuming not many as the majority in this thread don't even realize you have to take the screen out of the iMac (regardless of 2011 or previous gen). I'm willing to bet not a lot of people are willing to do this and if they knew that from the beginning, they probably wouldn't even be complaining, never mind the fact that the entire story is fabricated by OWC.

Still don't understand how we haven't gotten an edit to at least add a footnote that the report may be false. For god sakes macrumors, you have threads on your very own forum falsifying this report from OWC. If you can't at least make mention of that stop posting BS journalism because you have people up in a riot right now over news that is inaccurate.
 
Apple is not restricting this. It is only OWC propaganda. People have already changed the disks into the 2011 iMac without any of the issued OWC talks about. They are either incompetent or trying to gather some more business by misinforming the masses.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not taking about just the cable. The entire design of the iMac makes it difficult to service (dust under the glass). As such, a 1yr warranty is insufficient. Because of the likelihood of having a problem, what I want to know is what Apple charges for an out of warranty HDD replacement.
 
Don't get me wrong. I'm not taking about just the cable. The entire design of the iMac makes it difficult to service (dust under the glass). As such, a 1yr warranty is insufficient. Because of the likelihood of having a problem, what I want to know is what Apple charges for an out of warranty HDD replacement.

I agree there are risks associated with any tightly packed systems like the iMac. They were never designed nor advertised as easily serviceable by users regardless of their skills. But that is a different story and this article is not about that.

This is about OWC claiming that Apple uses proprietary technology for the hard drive making upgrades / replacement impossible after warranty, which is clearly not the case ... unless you've been ignoring the last 500+ posts like a large majority here.

Everything about the iMacs is proprietary and unserviceable but the hard drives and SATA power connectors are pretty standard.
 
Apple is not restricting this. It is only OWC propaganda. People have already changed the disks into the 2011 iMac without any of the issued OWC talks about. They are either incompetent or trying to gather some more business by misinforming the masses.

You have consistently called out OWC and MacRumors for spreading FUD throughout this discussion.

Perhaps posting a few links to the veracity of your posts would provide some substance to your claims of "people" performing a sucessful hard drive change on the 2011 iMac.

I am skeptical of Apple since the MacRumors discussions about the power consumption of the MacBook Air Superdrive requiring more than standard power, which everyone here took as gospel, turned out to be nothing more than Apple's Proprietary IDE to USB Adapter.

Please provide all the links to the hard drive successes with the new iMac.
 
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