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Design follows function or function follows design? :rolleyes:

With Apple it has always been like this. They make pretty computers and mac users seem to love that. If people would stop buying them for this reason, they would make them differently.

For those who appreciate the function more, there is a HUGE pc market out there with millions of choices. Why force yourself to something you are not comfortable with and then complain about it?
 
It really makes me laugh when apple tout "good engineering design" as one of their strengths,
yet make the single most unreliable component (HDD) the hardest to replace of any consumer PC or laptop.

The MBPs don't have a dock bay, but the HDD is as the back where its easy to replace.

Just look at the MBP in terms of its battery. They used to have a nice little removable cover (my 2008 MBP has one) and you could keep extra batteries or replace an ailing battery with complete ease. Then comes along their new 'improved' battery where Apple decided they could save $0.50 a case by not including that cover and telling people they no longer needed to change batteries because their new super battery lasts a million years on a 5-second charge. :rolleyes:

We know what the real reason is. The same reason they couldn't bother to put a little panel on the back of the iPhone. They find it quite lucrative to either sell you a new battery at $100+ a shot or use that as an incentive to just buy a new iPhone/Mac, which is even more lucrative. It's like including new connectors that weren't standardized at the time (i.e. Mini-Display Port) so they could then sell you all sorts of adapters (some as high as that magic $99 accessory price they aim for) to make it work with normal monitors and TVs.

Some of us find this underhanded. Others think it's great and everything Apple does is just fantastic and show it by personally contradicting every single post on here until the thread is a 100 pages long. Apparently, you need to have designed a bridge or something to comment on the lack of a panel to remove a hard drive or battery. :rolleyes:
 
This makes me extremely annoyed, and oh - did I mention that I no longer own a SINGLE Apple product? No? Now I'm glad I don't, because they've sucked me dry from 2006 til 2010. No more. Ubuntu is back, Android is my handset, and Apple can go jump.
 
So I've read all 27 pages of this thread. Didn't expect the plot twist around page 15, but with stories like this, I suppose it's typical.

To provide some context, I've owned two iMacs in my time as a mac user; an Early 2001 G3 iMac and a 20" Early 2006 iMac (First Generation of Intel; Core Duo, not Core 2 Duo), which I eventually replaced with the Mac mini Server in my signature, which I use as a normal Mac (with the hard drives RAID 0ed and running the client version of Snow Leopard). I'm saving up for a 15" MacBook Pro which I'll probably be able to afford right around the time that the current (Early 2011) generation is refreshed, at which point I might revert the Mac mini Server back to it's originally marketed purpose as a server. I MIGHT be inclined to get another iMac if (a) I found myself using a (primary) Mac under conditions that didn't require as much mobility and (b) Apple finally gave that thing some sort of Blu-Ray drive. Though I'm not confident that either will actually happen.

I work as an Apple Certified Macintosh Technician for an Apple Authorized Service Provider. I've seen all of these machines (save for the 2011 models) naked more times than anyone really needs to. I don't bring that up as a means of comparing my Apple e-penis to anyone else's, just to merely say that I've been inside these machines and I can offer contextual experience to the table.

That having all been said, if you:

(a) Are upset by the story:

On the one hand, it legitimately sucks. As owners of the machine we paid for, we should be allowed to put in whatever hard drive we want. Assuming the story is correct, the fact that we can't without causing our fans to rev at maximum speeds or causing Apple Hardware Test (AHT) to fail, is downright terrible. Apple already charges an arm and a leg for the hard drives that it sells at the time of purchase, but even for replacement drives for when the hard drive inevitably fails with the machine out of warranty, that's another arm and a leg. At my work, with other Macs and older iMacs, we are able to throw in an after-market hard drive and the customer not only has the option to get a bigger drive to replace their failed drive, but it's way cheaper than what Apple charges for an exact replacement to the stock failed drive. With that option gone, users have to pay Apple's premium for a replacement hard drive and that is legitimately terrible. Even for those who want to upgrade their own drive, while it is relatively difficult and often ill-advised, they should still be allowed to crack open their iMac and upgrade their hard drive.

But on the other hand, if you bought an iMac on the pretense that it's an easily upgradable computer, you either haven't been paying attention since October 2005. The iMac is Apple's most un-upgradable Mac in the line by far. Don't get me wrong, I love its external design. But it has by far the worst internal design of any Mac since the Intel switch first began. Incidentally, it's also the most prone to overheating. Trust me, they NEED those sensors, because those drives (let alone every other component in that machine) get really hot. As was stated earlier in the thread, 95% of the people who buy iMacs are the last people you'd ever see trying to, let alone wanting to upgrade or replace a component to begin with. It's designed for people who want the power of anywhere from a low-end 15" MacBook Pro and a Mac Pro, but don't care about or need the accessibility of either machine. If you're in the remaining 5%, and a Mac Pro is overkill, build a Hackintosh! You get a much better machine for the money and have none of the problems inherent in the design of the iMac. Though bad design or not, lack of upgradability or not, out-of-warranty customers should have the option of going with a less expensive aftermarket alternative.

(b) Are all set to move back to Windows due to this story:

So, let me get this straight, you're going to switch back to Windows because Apple has made their most un-upgradable Mac even more un-upgradable? It's not like Apple doesn't make other Macs (all of which don't have this issue). If you're really set to move back to Windows due to this, you never had a good reason to be using a Mac to begin with.

(c) Are blaming OWC for causing a needless frenzy:

I have one question for you: Why would OWC stand to gain by causing a frenzy among Mac users due to NOT being able to make an upgrade product due to this discovery? I'll even give you all a bonus question: Have any of you who have balked at their claims considered that?

(d) Haven't had the problem happen to you (assuming you are absolutely positive that you are using one of the Mid 2011 iMacs:

Have you considered that this might not affect every Mid 2011 iMac? Just a thought...

(e) Are convinced that this due to the rise of iOS devices:

Come on, surely you can come up with better crackpot conspiracy theories than that.

(f) Reconsidering your (forthcoming or recent) purchase of a Mid 2011 iMac in light of this story:

As terrible as this move is, it only affects the iMac, which, again, is by far the most user-hostile machine to access and service the internals of. I'm skeptical that this is anything beyond Apple trying to eliminate the hassle of failed sensor cables which were proprietary to the specific manufacturer of the hard drive. Were it an attempt to lock those of us out from replacing the hard drives on our MacBook Pros, I see no reason why we wouldn't have seen something like that on the Early 2011 models. It's not like the two machines weren't being developed at the same time or anything like that.

Beyond that, the iMac, for the money it retails at is overpriced. Again, you can get a faster, better, more powerful and more upgradable Hackintosh that you can replace the hard drives (or any other component of) for way less than you would an iMac. Even if you wanted an Apple branded machine, a MacBook Pro isn't much slower, and has much easier access to change out the hard drive; not to mention the fact that while it is thin, itself, it isn't always on the verge of melting itself like the iMacs always are.

In short, yes it sucks, but if it really sucks that much, you were in the market for the wrong Mac anyway.

You're right, of course it is not OWC at fault.

As for your point which mentions Windows alone... ever heard of Ubuntu/Linux in general/BSD/Haiku? There are way more options than Micropants.
 
Just look at the MBP in terms of its battery. They used to have a nice little removable cover (my 2008 MBP has one) and you could keep extra batteries or replace an ailing battery with complete ease. Then comes along their new 'improved' battery where Apple decided they could save $0.50 a case by not including that cover and telling people they no longer needed to change batteries because their new super battery lasts a million years on a 5-second charge. :rolleyes:

ummm no, apple stopped putting removable batteries because it allowed them to put larger batteries inside the machines because they didn't need the space taken up by allowing the battery to be removable. This let them increase battery life, not save $0.50 on a battery cover. :rolleyes:
We know what the real reason is. The same reason they couldn't bother to put a little panel on the back of the iPhone. They find it quite lucrative to either sell you a new battery at $100+ a shot or use that as an incentive to just buy a new iPhone/Mac, which is even more lucrative. It's like including new connectors that weren't standardized at the time (i.e. Mini-Display Port) so they could then sell you all sorts of adapters (some as high as that magic $99 accessory price they aim for) to make it work with normal monitors and TVs.
Same argument with the iPhone, a removable battery would mean a smaller battery and less battery life.

mDP supports higher resolutions than HDMI and doesn't have licensing fees, that's why they chose to go with mDP. Also the official apple adapters are $29, not $99, and you can get them off monoprice for $6.

Some of us find this underhanded. Others think it's great and everything Apple does is just fantastic and show it by personally contradicting every single post on here until the thread is a 100 pages long. Apparently, you need to have designed a bridge or something to comment on the lack of a panel to remove a hard drive or battery. :rolleyes:
NO, but you should at least know why the design changes were made before complaining about them. Saying apple stopped putting removable batteries so that they could save $0.50 is ridiculous.
 
I also have a hunch and may test it on my new iMac when I get it, I think the old temperature sensing wire from the factory connector is now on PIN 11 of the power cable. This PIN is usually the LED for HD activity and is re programmed with the custom firmware to be the temperature, I can't find anywhere if its been tested that the old cable for temperature monitoring if the white wire (maybe black) is the same as pin 11.

Why would they do this, its one less part they need to put in every iMac and 3 less parts they need to stock or use when they build an iMac. This saves money.

This is just my theory, and its a theory until its been tested.

OWCLarry mentions that in this post.
 
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I have had many macs and i have never had to replace a hard drive. I dont think its a question of when your drive fails because they dont fail often.
 
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I have had many macs and i have never had to replace a hard drive. I dont think its a question of when your drive fails because they dont fail often.

Failure isn't the only reason to replace a Hard Drive.

I've replaced four (4) hard drives in just my iBook since 2005.

Two failures and two because I wanted more space.

... and yes Mac Hard Drives do fail!

You do realize that Apple doesn't make their own Hard Drives.
 
you must have bad luck
Not really. While 2 out of 5 disks failing over 5 years is worse then average, it's hardly unusual. HDD's fail. Personally I have experienced 6 disk failures on my various home machines over the years (several were the infamous IBM Deskstars) and dozens more in the office server labs.
I'm as excited about SDD for increased reliability as I am for speed.
 
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Bless. Shows that the average Mac user is clueless when it comes to the inner workings of computers.

Once went to Apple store "genius" and asked him how to do something (which I already knew) in bash shell... and he said "oh, that's a bit beyond me". Lol. Some genius!
 
Failure isn't the only reason to replace a Hard Drive.

I've replaced four (4) hard drives in just my iBook since 2005.

Two failures and two because I wanted more space.

... and yes Mac Hard Drives do fail!

You do realize that Apple doesn't make their own Hard Drives.

Exactly. My MBP started out with the standard 250GB Toshiba drive. That was replaced by a 500GB WD blue drive. The blue drive decided it wanted to be in a different Mac so a 640 GB WD blue drive was installed. Currently the excellent WD 750GB 7200RPM black drive is in the MBP. All in 30 months.

Hard drive accessibility counts.
 
Bless. Shows that the average Mac user is clueless when it comes to the inner workings of computers.
To be fair, the average user of ANY device is clueless. No special Mac qualifier is necessary.
This holds for PC, cars, radios, TV's... Manufactures shouldn't expect users to be experts at the inner workings of these devices.
 
I have to admit that I was wrong with my adamant denial that temp data was being transmitted over the SATA power cable, and that with their follow-up OWC is continuing to do real research regarding this issue. However, I stand by my assessment of the initial blog post being rife with fallacies and the textbook definition of FUD.

Quote:
For the main 3.5" SATA hard drive bay in the new 2011 machines, Apple has altered the SATA power connector itself from a standard 4-pin power configuration to a 7-pin configuration.
Ummm, no, they didn't. They used an absolutely standard 15-pin SATA power connector for the 3.5" HDD bay. Apple didn't alter any standards. Their novel use of pin 11 for temperature reporting is the only thing that is out of the ordinary, and thus a cable with a dedicated conductor for pin 11 must be used. Oh good, it seems Apple includes one with the purchase of any iMac containing a 3.5" HDD.

Quote:
Hard drive temperature control is regulated by a combination of this cable and Apple proprietary firmware on the hard drive itself.
Once again, not quite. Hard drive fan speed is regulated by SMC using temperature data reported by the hard drive's controller from a built in sensor. The temp data is output on pin 11 of the SATA power cable, which is not the default behavior of these drive units. Did Apple create proprietary firmware for these drives? I think it is far more likely that Apple requested the feature from their hard drive vendors, who then implemented the specification in their own firmware. Despite the fact that OWC refers to the HD firmware as "ROM" elsewhere in their posts on this matter, Seagate and Western Digital have both released public firmware updates in the past, and could do so in this instance. It is also quite possible that this is a selectable option in the firmware, and a tool could be released to modify pin 11 behavior, much like WD's TLER, Idle Mode and SpinUp utilities.

Quote:
It is not a matter of "if" but rather a matter of "when" your hard drive is going to fail. We preach this all the time in regards to having a proper backup strategy in place to prepare from when that failure happens. But it seems now, that when that happens to the main drive on your iMac, you're left with two options - buy a new drive from Apple and have them install it via one of their Authorized Service Centers, or enjoy the rather large Apple logoed paperweight on your desk. Want a 3.5" drive larger than 2TB? Too bad - Apple doesn't offer them.
With the additional 2.5" bay, it is not always correct to assume that the "main drive" on one's iMac is in the 3.5" bay. Also there are clearly more than two choices afforded to the end user. You can ground pin 11 and use software based fan control, although this is not ideal. You can ground pin 11 and use a 2.5" drive in the 3.5" bay, which should be fine from a thermal standpoint due to the increased air space and lower power requirements. At today's areal densities this solution could provide up to 1.75 TB of storage if you use both the 2.5" and 3.5" bays, and by the time your iMac is out of warranty, that number will surely be higher. You can also mod the firmware on your stock hard drive to get it to output temp data on pin 11. This is where OWC runs into trouble. They're in the business of selling upgrades and add-ons to Mac owners, and they can't modify a drive's firmware without voiding the warranty nor can they resell such a drive without invoking the wrath of the manufacturer. For the rest of us though, it's not nearly such a big problem. I'm really hoping that Apple and the HD manufacturers release a sanctioned solution rather than relegating the sale of aftermarket iMac 3.5" HDD upgrades/replacements to the gray market. There's also the possibility of creating custom cable assemblies that mimic the pin 11 temperature reporting scheme, and if I had to guess, OWC is probably barking up that tree right now.

So yes, OWC was indeed creating Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt in the minds of the iMac buying public that they will not be able to upgrade their 3.5" drive themselves, buying time until OWC has a marketable solution.
 
ummm no, apple stopped putting removable batteries because it allowed them to put larger batteries inside the machines because they didn't need the space taken up by allowing the battery to be removable. This let them increase battery life, not save $0.50 on a battery cover. :rolleyes:

If you actually believe that then you are simply showing your ignorance of how a removable battery can be implemented. Why on earth would it need to take up more space to put a panel on the bottom of the unit or have pressure connectors contact with the battery when directly inserted? Have you EVER removed the back of your cell phone? I don't think you EVER have or you'd know better. The battery couldn't take up more space if it tried. :rolleyes:

If Apple cannot manage a design whereby the two most changed components are user accessible (i.e. hard drive and battery followed by ram), then they are using some seriously incompetent designers, IMO. But I know better. They have a very good reason to not allow things to be easily accessible and that is so they can charge you a small fortune to change the things for you (which also encourages you not to bother and just buy a newer machine in many cases like the iPod Touch where the battery replacement is a huge chunk of the total cost.

The 50 cent comment was meant to be facetious because that's probably all it would save them not put a door on the thing. Clearly, that's not why they did it. But it sure wasn't for your benefit. I'm sure those drinking Apple Kool-Aid believe everything Apple tells them. It's a good thing Apple isn't selling swamp land in Florida too.... :rolleyes:
 
One of the biggest reason why I returned my 27 iMac within 1 week of use. Terrible terrible decision by Apple.
 
If you actually believe that then you are simply showing your ignorance of how a removable battery can be implemented. Why on earth would it need to take up more space to put a panel on the bottom of the unit or have pressure connectors contact with the battery when directly inserted? Have you EVER removed the back of your cell phone? I don't think you EVER have or you'd know better. The battery couldn't take up more space if it tried.

If Apple cannot manage a design whereby the two most changed components are user accessible (i.e. hard drive and battery followed by ram), then they are using some seriously incompetent designers, IMO. But I know better. They have a very good reason to not allow things to be easily accessible and that is so they can charge you a small fortune to change the things for you (which also encourages you not to bother and just buy a newer machine in many cases like the iPod Touch where the battery replacement is a huge chunk of the total cost.

The 50 cent comment was meant to be facetious because that's probably all it would save them not put a door on the thing. Clearly, that's not why they did it. But it sure wasn't for your benefit. I'm sure those drinking Apple Kool-Aid believe everything Apple tells them. It's a good thing Apple isn't selling swamp land in Florida too....

ok, i'll go with you; if apple is lying, can you explain how they increased the batteries while decreasing the size of the notebooks?
 
The 50 cent comment was meant to be facetious because that's probably all it would save them not put a door on the thing. Clearly, that's not why they did it. But it sure wasn't for your benefit. I'm sure those drinking Apple Kool-Aid believe everything Apple tells them. It's a good thing Apple isn't selling swamp land in Florida too.... :rolleyes:

By the way, for my last 3 cellphones (Motorola, Samsung, Samsung) there was no "battery door" - the exterior surface was part of the battery casing.

Same for my last 13 laptops (Toshiba, Digital, Compaq, Dell, Dell, Dell, IBM, Dell, Lenovo, Asus, Dell, Lenovo, Dell) - the battery is part of the exterior shell of the laptop.

Only Kool-Aid drinkers buy the story that non-replaceable batteries are good design.
 
Same for my last 13 laptops (Toshiba, Digital, Compaq, Dell, Dell, Dell, IBM, Dell, Lenovo, Asus, Dell, Lenovo, Dell) - the battery is part of the exterior shell of the laptop.

Well if you stopped buying subpar quality laptops and started investing in reputable brands then maybe you wouldn't have to buy 13 of them in the first place.

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Well if you stopped buying subpar quality laptops and started investing in reputable brands then maybe you wouldn't have to buy 13 of them in the first place.

Childish retort.

I bought the Toshiba in 1995, so that's 13 laptops in 16 years. Almost all of the rest were company laptops, purchased because my work requires the latest. (Six month old laptop replaced with a dual core, 8 month old laptop replaced with one with VT support, x86 CPU replaced with x64 CPU, replaced 4 GiB laptop with one that supported 8 GiB RAM....)

Come on, Morph. You can do better than such childish taunts.
 
Childish retort.

I bought the Toshiba in 1995, so that's 13 laptops in 16 years. Almost all of the rest were company laptops, purchased because my work requires the latest. (Six month old laptop replaced with a dual core, 8 month old laptop replaced with one with VT support, x86 CPU replaced with x64 CPU, replaced 4 GiB laptop with one that supported 8 GiB RAM....)

Come on, Morph. You can do better than such childish taunts.

U mad bro?

why+you+mad+bro.jpg
 
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