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So I've read all 27 pages of this thread. Didn't expect the plot twist around page 15, but with stories like this, I suppose it's typical.

To provide some context, I've owned two iMacs in my time as a mac user; an Early 2001 G3 iMac and a 20" Early 2006 iMac (First Generation of Intel; Core Duo, not Core 2 Duo), which I eventually replaced with the Mac mini Server in my signature, which I use as a normal Mac (with the hard drives RAID 0ed and running the client version of Snow Leopard). I'm saving up for a 15" MacBook Pro which I'll probably be able to afford right around the time that the current (Early 2011) generation is refreshed, at which point I might revert the Mac mini Server back to it's originally marketed purpose as a server. I MIGHT be inclined to get another iMac if (a) I found myself using a (primary) Mac under conditions that didn't require as much mobility and (b) Apple finally gave that thing some sort of Blu-Ray drive. Though I'm not confident that either will actually happen.

I work as an Apple Certified Macintosh Technician for an Apple Authorized Service Provider. I've seen all of these machines (save for the 2011 models) naked more times than anyone really needs to. I don't bring that up as a means of comparing my Apple e-penis to anyone else's, just to merely say that I've been inside these machines and I can offer contextual experience to the table.

That having all been said, if you:

(a) Are upset by the story:

On the one hand, it legitimately sucks. As owners of the machine we paid for, we should be allowed to put in whatever hard drive we want. Assuming the story is correct, the fact that we can't without causing our fans to rev at maximum speeds or causing Apple Hardware Test (AHT) to fail, is downright terrible. Apple already charges an arm and a leg for the hard drives that it sells at the time of purchase, but even for replacement drives for when the hard drive inevitably fails with the machine out of warranty, that's another arm and a leg. At my work, with other Macs and older iMacs, we are able to throw in an after-market hard drive and the customer not only has the option to get a bigger drive to replace their failed drive, but it's way cheaper than what Apple charges for an exact replacement to the stock failed drive. With that option gone, users have to pay Apple's premium for a replacement hard drive and that is legitimately terrible. Even for those who want to upgrade their own drive, while it is relatively difficult and often ill-advised, they should still be allowed to crack open their iMac and upgrade their hard drive.

But on the other hand, if you bought an iMac on the pretense that it's an easily upgradable computer, you either haven't been paying attention since October 2005. The iMac is Apple's most un-upgradable Mac in the line by far. Don't get me wrong, I love its external design. But it has by far the worst internal design of any Mac since the Intel switch first began. Incidentally, it's also the most prone to overheating. Trust me, they NEED those sensors, because those drives (let alone every other component in that machine) get really hot. As was stated earlier in the thread, 95% of the people who buy iMacs are the last people you'd ever see trying to, let alone wanting to upgrade or replace a component to begin with. It's designed for people who want the power of anywhere from a low-end 15" MacBook Pro and a Mac Pro, but don't care about or need the accessibility of either machine. If you're in the remaining 5%, and a Mac Pro is overkill, build a Hackintosh! You get a much better machine for the money and have none of the problems inherent in the design of the iMac. Though bad design or not, lack of upgradability or not, out-of-warranty customers should have the option of going with a less expensive aftermarket alternative.

(b) Are all set to move back to Windows due to this story:

So, let me get this straight, you're going to switch back to Windows because Apple has made their most un-upgradable Mac even more un-upgradable? It's not like Apple doesn't make other Macs (all of which don't have this issue). If you're really set to move back to Windows due to this, you never had a good reason to be using a Mac to begin with.

(c) Are blaming OWC for causing a needless frenzy:

I have one question for you: Why would OWC stand to gain by causing a frenzy among Mac users due to NOT being able to make an upgrade product due to this discovery? I'll even give you all a bonus question: Have any of you who have balked at their claims considered that?

(d) Haven't had the problem happen to you (assuming you are absolutely positive that you are using one of the Mid 2011 iMacs:

Have you considered that this might not affect every Mid 2011 iMac? Just a thought...

(e) Are convinced that this due to the rise of iOS devices:

Come on, surely you can come up with better crackpot conspiracy theories than that.

(f) Reconsidering your (forthcoming or recent) purchase of a Mid 2011 iMac in light of this story:

As terrible as this move is, it only affects the iMac, which, again, is by far the most user-hostile machine to access and service the internals of. I'm skeptical that this is anything beyond Apple trying to eliminate the hassle of failed sensor cables which were proprietary to the specific manufacturer of the hard drive. Were it an attempt to lock those of us out from replacing the hard drives on our MacBook Pros, I see no reason why we wouldn't have seen something like that on the Early 2011 models. It's not like the two machines weren't being developed at the same time or anything like that.

Beyond that, the iMac, for the money it retails at is overpriced. Again, you can get a faster, better, more powerful and more upgradable Hackintosh that you can replace the hard drives (or any other component of) for way less than you would an iMac. Even if you wanted an Apple branded machine, a MacBook Pro isn't much slower, and has much easier access to change out the hard drive; not to mention the fact that while it is thin, itself, it isn't always on the verge of melting itself like the iMacs always are.

In short, yes it sucks, but if it really sucks that much, you were in the market for the wrong Mac anyway.
 
Gee, so those screaming in giant red letters about fabrications stories, etc. are wrong after all about OWC? Tsk. Tsk. :rolleyes:

The original blog story is still wrong as it drew conclusions based on incomplete and superficial testing while ignoring other users experiences which still contradicts OWC's findings. A company such as OWC regarded so highly by the Mac community, should have shown more consideration before publishing sensational articles based on partial testing and limited experience. This has resulted in unnnecessary panic and a lot of inbound links for OWC's website.

It is very much appreciated the fact they decided to join the discussion and calm the spirits with a more reasonable explanation which now allows the possibility of HDD upgrades in quite a few more scenarios. Hopefully with more testing, more solutions will come to light.

There are 3 scenarios at this point:

1) Add a SSD in addition to the existing HDD. This is a simple upgrade and totally possible as confirmed by OWC originally.

2) Replace the existing HDD with a SSD. Although OWC still hasn't confirmed this, based on their theory and backed up by user's experiences, this should be very easy as long as we disable the thermal sensor signal wires. This can be easily accomplished by using either a y-splitter or a SATA power extension cable which will convert the 7-wire to a 4-wire cable, neutralising the thermal sensor signal wires (if indeed they exist). AHT passes and fan speeds are normal.

3) Replace stock HDD with a bigger size HDD. This is still possible as in the case (2) but, as OWC revealed in their second article and although still not tested by themselves but users confirmed by users instead. Using a y-splitter or possible a SATA power extension to feed the HDD, makes the AHT pass and fan speed kept in check.

The problem with this scenario is, as noted by OWC, that although temperature is still accessible via SMART, the mac may still be relying on data possibly fed through the 7-wide power cable which has now been converted to a 4-wire. Without the thermal signal, the mac may be thinking it has a SSD in place and keep the fan speed in check, which could possibly become a dangerous situation if the hard drive becomes hot and the system doesn't react by increasing the fan speed.

The last scenario I will be testing soon by stressing the HDD which now is only connected by a 4 wire power cable, while monitoring the SMART temperature and fan speed. Will post later some results.
 
@Yebubbleman
Excellent post.

@OWC
I’ve read their blogs (and this thread!) and believe they have it correct so far.

I for one would have hoped that Apple had not done this.
Choice is better than no choice always.

Thanks ... Ken
 
Heaven knows I'm no lawyer, but I do wonder how far down this kind of road a company can go before it can be accused of committing restraint of fair trade.

The trade that would be restrained would be the trade in hard drives. Apple would first have to sell so many iMacs that being unable to sell hard drives for iMacs would be a significant problem for hard drive makers. That would be the situation if lets say Microsoft prevented Windows from working with Samsung drives; then Samsung would have a case. If Apple prevents iMacs to work with some drive, when the iMac hard drive is not a user servicable part in the first place, that comes nowhere near. On top of that, Apple would actually have to prevent a manufacturer from producing these drives. For example, by keeping the specs for the interface secret even if a manufacturer asks for them. No indication that Apple does that.
 
The original blog story is still wrong as it drew conclusions based on incomplete and superficial testing while ignoring other users experiences which still contradicts OWC's findings.

I disagree. Almost everything they originally said is correct, albeit not mentioning a Y-splitter workaround, which is dangerous to your computer's health since it no longer has any idea how hot your drives are getting and perhaps anything near them to adjust said fans. OWC was reporting their initial findings and I think some people on here are very glad they did. I would certainly think twice about an iMac if I were considering one.

So unless you use a Y-splitter, it will fail the internal check and fans will spin to max and stay there just as they said. And it would be better to keep the fans at max than burn out your iMac, IMO. Having to monitor the smart rate and adjust fans manually is far from an ideal solution, IMO and it changes little to what Apple has done, which is make a hostile system with the potential of becoming a door stopper (e.g. I override my MBP fans any time I do heavy CPU use since it has the NVIDIA GPU that has the potential of going bad at higher temperatures, but after a reset it will pretty much reset itself to the old fan speeds and if you don't notice you could have a situation).

All I see from your post is the same claims (that OWC did something wrong) with contradicting answers in the same post (i.e. you admit it's dangerous and the thermal system has been bypassed). Being able to change a drive and being able to do it properly are two entirely different things. The Y-splitter is bypassing the new cooling setup. The SSD has absolutely nothing to do with anything relevant (i.e. it's not changing the primary internal drive) and your 3rd scenario is just a repeat of the Y-splitter (once again bypasses cooling sensors).

If you bypass your cooling sensors you are asking for a dead iMac. (unless you manually spin up the fans to a safe level and leave them there, which will make the machine louder than normal). I'm guessing someone may eventually make an app to override the fans based on the more typical smart data at some point (assuming it's even available; I get no temperature reading on my PPC Mac from modern SATA drives) and that's about as good as it's going to get short of someone making a hack to install the custom firmware on new drives, but that will never be an officially endorsed solution as it would break copyright (i.e. someone like OWC could not legally do it for you).

Either way and regardless of intent, Apple created a bad design here, IMO. They have customized the cooling sensor and firmware setup and made it very difficult to use a third party drive safely. Their own drives are way overpriced and they do not offer 3TB drives at all. One alternative solution mentioned, namely using external drives instead (either for upgrades or if you internal drive fails) isn't very elegant either. Having to boot off an external drive (especially on an iMac designed to reduce clutter) is like buying a car and having to stick your head out the window to get 'air conditioning', IMO.
 
For the main 3.5″ SATA hard drive bay in the new 2011 machines, Apple has altered the SATA power connector itself from a standard 4-wire power configuration to a 7-wire configuration. Hard drive temperature control is regulated by a combination of this cable and Apple proprietary firmware on the hard drive itself. From our testing, we’ve found that removing this drive from the system, or even from that bay itself, causes the machine’s hard drive fans to spin at maximum speed and replacing the drive with any non-Apple original drive will result in the iMac failing the Apple Hardware Test (AHT).

In examining the 2011 27″ iMac’s viability for our Turnkey Upgrade Service, every workaround we’ve tried thus far to allow us to upgrade the main bay factory hard drive still resulted in spinning fans and an Apple Hardware Test failure. We swapped the main drive out (in this case a Western Digital Black WD1001FALS) with the exact same model drive from our inventory which resulted in a failure. We’ve installed our Mercury Pro 6G SSD in that bay, it too results in ludicrous speed engaged fans and an AHT failure. In short, the Apple-branded main hard drive cannot be moved, removed or replaced.

You can still replace the hard drive with 1 or 2 SSDs which would make it perfectly safe, error free, doesn't need any software hacks and totally reversible. If anything, easier than 2010 model. In OWC initial report they said that replacing the HDD with anything other than an Apple HDD would result in 1) AHT fail and 2) fans revving up which contradicted our experience (and still does), hence they were wrong assuming that was the end of the road. Should OWC waited a few more days, gather more data and consult other user's reports before spreading the news so dramatically, I'm sure some unnecessary panic would have been avoided.

Later findings on other forums revealed that by shorting or grounding the thermal sensor wires seem to solve the AHT failure and fans revving up. This fact was acknowledged by OWC in their second report but not in the first. This could also be possible done automatically by the the y-splitter we used on our systems. Normal HDD can still be changed without AHT failure or speeding fans but, as it turns out, it may leave the hard drive unprotected in the event it would get very hot and 1000rpm would be not enough to cool it down.

I've run some tests and overstressed my internal HDD to very unlikely levels (duplicating a 100G folder with 60,000 files + transcoding a 16G x264 file with handbrake on the same drive + running 2 benchmark speed tests at the same time. The drive was buzzing like crazy and CPU Load was 100% on all 4 cores which added extra temperature to the unibody. Ambient sensor reported 27C.

Keeping an eye on the HDD it went from 51C to the manufacturer maximum operating temperature of 60C in about 45 minutes of continuous stress while the the CPU raised until 64C where the CPU fan started accelerating to about 1400rpm followed by the CPU cooling down to 56C. As predicted by OWC in one of their posts, the HDD fan speed remained steady at 1100rpm. I stopped the test after a further 30 minutes because I didn't want to cause any damage to my drive but it didn't go above 60C. I'm not sure what is the threshold for fan to start increasing the speed but I would expect this to be before the drive reaches 60C. Maybe someone will confirm this along the way.

Now, this is very dramatic and it will never happen in my workflow. Most of the heavy lifting is done by the SSD which simply flies through these tasks at 500MB/s. HDD keeps the photos, video files, music etc which will never cause this kind of stress. Nevertheless, I will keep monitoring it (and backing it up) until more light is shed over the issue.

This is still under development and I would expect new ideas to spring in as people will continue their experiments.
 
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Now the dust has settled a little I feel happier to comment about the custom firmware on the iMac drives. I've been modding PCs, Macs & Hackintoshes for quite some time and feel completely comfortable stripping machines and rebuilding with new configs and applying whatever patches and software get the job done. On the other hand I also like the fact that the iMac does everything I need in a very attractive package in a single unit. Very slick design and great build quality that I don't have to mess with.

Over the years I've found unsurprisingly the number 1 component that fails is the HDD. It hasn't been an issue since we use a pretty robust backup schedule and data loss is never an issue. What is important is I can buy an off the shelf HDD and replace the drive and restore the data far quicker than it would be to take the machine to an Apple store and get a genius to do it because thats the only place to source an Apple firmware drive - possibly incurring a delay as they wait for a part to arrive, then fit the part, then I can finally do the data restore. Even though we all pay Apple tax on our machines, is it fair that we would have to pay inflated Apple HDD prices for a simple part swap - not really.

But is this all just a state of mind? I'm happy after all to use my MacBook Air for on the go work scenarios and if the SSD in that went south I would have no choice but to take it to an Apple repair center or ironically pay OWC a hefty sum for one of their replacement parts! LOL

My main machine is a 2010 model iMac and not the 2011 that shows the highest restrictions on hardware replacement but if this trend continues I "may" and its still early days, return to the scenario where I have Apple hardware for portables and hackintoshes for my desktops. I'm amazed to be in the position that if I have to tinker and research just to find and fit a hard drive that won't cause my fans to go into overload I think I may as well build a hack from scratch and get more power for less money.

In the grand scheme of things I doubt Apple will care about the .00001% of guys like me and the rest of us who like to service our own machines. The post PC era is all about forgetting the hardware after all. In 5 years time = iMac as an appliance that does a job for sure but just as I don't question my Macbook Air internals, I also don't care that I can't replace parts on my iPhone. It just does what its supposed to after all.
 
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Glad I decided to keep saving for a Mac pro :)
 
You can still replace the hard drive with 1 or 2 SSDs which would make it perfectly safe, error free, doesn't need any software hacks and totally reversible.

How is changing a normal fixed platter to a much smaller SSD even remotely the same thing? OWC's finding are true for regular replacement (i.e. larger) hard drives. The 2nd SSD is a speed-up thing, not more real storage.

Should OWC waited a few more days, gather more data and consult other user's reports before spreading the news so dramatically, I'm sure some unnecessary panic would have been avoided.

Later findings on other forums revealed that by shorting or grounding the thermal sensor wires seem to solve the AHT failure and fans revving up.

It doesn't "solve" squat. It bypasses the safety features that keeps your iMac from burning up. HTF is that solving ANYTHING??? Geeze. I'd take OWC precautions over your bad advice to burn up the iMac any day of the week! :rolleyes:

Until I see a real solution to keep the fans running normally with 3rd party normal (not SSD) disk drives, I wouldn't call anything 'fixed' or 'solved' or anything else. OWC's story is 100% true for normal platter hard drives and all the wishing and complaining about their story won't change that.
 
Maxinc... You keep saying the original blog post was wrong... It was CORRECT. Your postings have been wishful thinking and jumping the gun. Yo kept throwing out these single user confirmations that it is not really an issue. You have to consider that OWC was testing in a lab, with structured test cases and using multiple options and theories, trying to prove it works or doesn't work. End users are trying one scenario each and probably do not have the tools to understand their results. OWC is experienced. I wish you were right and this was a non issue and we could just choose a working drive model and upgrade. Apparently, as with the 2010 models, Apple is using proprietary firmware. You either jump the connection and lose sensor readability or you stick with their overpriced, and under spec'd drives.

Anyone that says Apple is not doing this on purpose is not recognizing the facts in play. Apple put proprietary firmware on their 2010 iMac drives and would NOT release it and made sure the manufacturers would not release it either. I have upgrades 100+ of these 2010 and 2009 models and tried to get the firmware. It was NOT as simple as get the same drive manufacturer, regardless of what OWC continues to say about the 2010 models.

If Apple is not trying to prevent user upgrades, then they release the firmware, otherwise, SHAME on Apple and they deserve a huge media hit for this arrogant stance.
 
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If Apple is not trying to prevent user upgrades, then they release the firmware, otherwise, SHAME on Apple and they deserve a huge media hit for this arrogant stance.
how can they be "preventing user upgrades" on the new models when the imacs have never been advertised as "user upgradeable"?
 
how can they be "preventing user upgrades" on the new models when the imacs have never been advertised as "user upgradeable"?

Been awhile at least since the iMac G5 was around with a DIY design made for access/repair by the owner.

Of course they make a nifty DIY design, and then get sacked with the bad capacitors that had people opening the machine up and looking at swollen capacitors themselves -- instead of swallowing what the repair techs were saying.
 
how can they be "preventing user upgrades" on the new models when the imacs have never been advertised as "user upgradeable"?

Well that is a very interesting way of looking at it. I assume that only applies to apple products. I know when I buy a dell, it does NOT say "user upgradeable" next to it, but it is.

The point is, they are going back to proprietary. They have grown their customer base significantly in the past decade because they got away from that with the intel based systems and more freedom for users.

Even if you never want to open an iMac yourself, you are now FORCED to use an Apple Certified Technician/Repair Facility to get the correct part for your system. Sure, you can buy Applecare (I am sure they want that) but what about on day 1200? After 3YRs, you pay Apple markup to repair systems. You have no option for warranty after 3YRs.

This is a really STUPID move on their part. Corporations will stay away!
 
It wouldn't be so bad if Apple were the only avenue for upgrades for the iMac IF their upgrades weren't so overpriced and/or if they offered more choices from the Apple Store for a reasonable price. The same holds true for the Mac Pro, even. When you overcharge for something as DIRT CHEAP as a hard drive (3TB internal is what? $100 now? I remember when 240MB was $400...3TB are practically FREE by comparison) and don't even offer the largest sizes (i.e. 3TB), WTF does Apple expect users to do? Just sit there and twiddle their thumbs? What good is the Mac Pro for upgradability if there are no other GPU cards for it? What happened to the professional video cards??? WTF is Apple abandoning their professional market? It's not like they are hurting for money to keep everything running at the top of its game. It's like Steve doesn't want to hire anyone....

Apple cannot claim to be the greatest OS on Earth, IMO when they don't even offer competent hardware for it and don't keep their video drivers up-to-date (drivers for Windows trounce OSX drivers for ANY video card on any machine, period and that is 100% Apple's fault. Considering they are one of the richest companies on Earth, there is NO EXCUSE for being 3rd rate, IMO). Apple should be doing it cleaner and better than everyone else to deserve their premium prices. They could easily make the iMac a little thicker and have full desktop parts for everything and run cool to boot. I mean WTF is Steve's obsession with thin on desktops??? The Mac-Mini (and ATV for that matter; it could/should be rack sized) does not need to be the freaking size of a credit card for goodness sake! It's a DESKTOP...supposedly. :rolleyes:

Why can't a Mac game comparably to a PC? It's embarassing to have to boot into Windows on the same machine to play a game at a reasonable frame rate.... These are glaring holes in the whole "OSX is the best OS on Earth" paradigm and they could easily be fixed with Apple's capital. Steve would rather fixate on removing battery and hard drive replacement ability to make a quick buck off people's misery instead. Shame on Apple. :(
 
I think most posts on this topic are ill informed, Apple obviously did this to protect the hard disks and have a heat problem that they are trying to fix. At first I couldn't believe they would use custom firmware but now I am convinced they are.
http://www.hardmac.com/news/2011/05...le-to-replace-the-hard-drive-of-the-2011-imac
I do not believe the OWC article is completely accurate, read the one above it has more facts.

I also have a hunch and may test it on my new iMac when I get it, I think the old temperature sensing wire from the factory connector is now on PIN 11 of the power cable. This PIN is usually the LED for HD activity and is re programmed with the custom firmware to be the temperature, I can't find anywhere if its been tested that the old cable for temperature monitoring if the white wire (maybe black) is the same as pin 11.

Why would they do this, its one less part they need to put in every iMac and 3 less parts they need to stock or use when they build an iMac. This saves money.

This is just my theory, and its a theory until its been tested.
 
This is what I hated most when you bring your gigantic 27" iMac in the store. Imagine 3-4 years from now when new redesign iMac came out then all of a sudden you need to replace your hddd. I can't imagine people looking at you with your old obsolete computer staring thinking what this guy is doing at the store. I've seen people bringing in their crt imac not a long time ago or even the white plastic one. What if the new iMac 3-5 years from now is really thin 50-75% thinner. You don't want people staring at you with your jurassic computer don't you? How about the hdd all your personal files and sensitive data is Apple keeping them. How safe are we?

How vain are you? Absolutely pathetic.

It's just a computer, get over yourself.
 
This is a really STUPID move on their part. Corporations will stay away!

How idiotic. No iMac in any company will ever be opened by people in the company. So whether they could replace the hard drive after opening the iMac, which they wouldn't do, or whether they couldn't replace it after opening the iMac, which they wouldn't do, doesn't make any difference.

On the other hand, adding temperature sensors, which will keep better control of the temperature inside a computer, and therefore will make the computer last longer, _that_ will make a difference.


How vain are you? Absolutely pathetic.

It's just a computer, get over yourself.

My wife actually won't let me clean her 2006 white MacBook. It looks used, and I could make it look like brand new. But she likes the way it looks, not like a toy, but like a computer that has been used by a careful owner for many years. Almost an antique, which she likes. It says "I used a Mac at a time when you didn't even know how to spell the word".
 
My feelings are that those bitching so much about this issue, wouldn't even dare to take an iMac apart.

While you keep complaining, finding excuses and waiting for others to make it easier for you, there are people who have the guts to experiment with their own hardware and are now enjoying the benefits of drive upgrades while sharing their findings with you.
 
3 words: hot swappable drives

Why not just have one hot swappable drive bay on side on iMac that allows Apple or users to simple swap out a new drive on the fly? ( similar to Mac Pro Tower Bay )

Easier for Apple Tech / Repair staff.

Easier for iMac customers.

As new drives become available, simply swap out & download a firmware update ( if needed ).
 
Why not just have one hot swappable drive bay on side on iMac that allows Apple or users to simple swap out a new drive on the fly? ( similar to Mac Pro Tower Bay )

Easier for Apple Tech / Repair staff.

Easier for iMac customers.

As new drives become available, simply swap out & download a firmware update ( if needed ).

Implementing a bay system will take too much real estate. Apple tries to make the iMacs as compact as possible so that will contradict their philosophy.

With the new 2011 MBP, iMacs and Thunderbolt support, the way we think about storage will change significantly.
 
It really makes me laugh when apple tout "good engineering design" as one of their strengths,
yet make the single most unreliable component (HDD) the hardest to replace of any consumer PC or laptop.

The MBPs don't have a dock bay, but the HDD is as the back where its easy to replace.
 
It really makes me laugh when apple tout "good engineering design" as one of their strengths,
yet make the single most unreliable component (HDD) the hardest to replace of any consumer PC or laptop.

Would you care to share your achievements in engineering design so we can all have a laugh at Apples effort?
 
Implementing a bay system will take too much real estate. Apple tries to make the iMacs as compact as possible so that will contradict their philosophy.

Design follows function or function follows design? :rolleyes:
 
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