I'll take this comment as license to not reply to the half dozen posts that have come in since my last post, all of which provide arguments that I've already addressed.
"Critical reading" is a lost art, it seems.
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Apple Retail Stores Receive Golden Master Copies of OS X Lion
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I'll take this comment as license to not reply to the half dozen posts that have come in since my last post, all of which provide arguments that I've already addressed.
"Critical reading" is a lost art, it seems.
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What is the cloud except a physical hard drive located in a data center?
Wouldn't be surprised if the mac app store install is a way to prevent mackintoshes and the ability to create a bootable disk is some how curtail in the release code.
AidenShaw said:
What is the cloud except a physical hard drive located in a data center?
Wouldn't be surprised if the mac app store install is a way to prevent mackintoshes and the ability to create a bootable disk is some how curtail in the release code.
Ok i hear what you have been saying this whole time.
Lets consider another option that others seem to have overlooked.
The Apple stores have free WIFI.
Theoretically if you were to take your macbook pro to this store you could then log in and download the copy of Lion free of download charges (note that you would still have to pay via your App Store account).
Consider then that if 100 people were to do this a day for the first 10 days of release.
That means that they would have downloaded 1000 individual 4.7GB installs.
Thats a LOT of bandwidth even for someone like Apple.
Now multiply that by the number of retail stores they have in the world (300+).
On working out the basic figures we would be looking at over 1,410,000GB
by day 11 world wide.
Thats a lot to ask.
But there may be another way around this problem.
For example what if the physical drives they have actually contain a form of proxy software on them.
Im not going to try to get technical because i have no idea if this could even work but its all theoretical so here goes.
This proxy is set up to the stores WIFI network.
The customer then logs into the App Store like normal and they then download the version that is stored on the proxy HD (this can be updated regularly and only 1 copy would need to be downloaded off of the internets once the initial version is installed)
It would save bandwidth, keep customers happy being able to download it at a store for "free" and also it means that Apple are not going to be raped over internet charges.
This to me would be the reason why they would look at releasing a physical medium to a store. So they can guarantee that ALL stores are EXACTLY the same on release day. And so ALL stores can offer this service to customers.
Sure it may sound far fetched.
Plus could you imagine the trouble of handing HDs to customers when some have 10.6.6 and some have 1.6.7 while others are running 10.6.8 (lets not even start on the ones that are running 10.6.5 or lower still and want to upgrade but cant). Each install would be different to include the updates and missing features etc. It would be a large HD to cover every possibility....or you could host the updates at a data centre and have the customers request specific files via the App Store.
No feedback?
True. It is lame. See link below.
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...support-webgl-and-meet-our-security-needs.ars
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The point is like I stated earlier Windows implementation of openGL is older than Apples. It's the gfx card vendor that updated OGL not MS. Mac OS relies a lot on OpenGL hence why Apple controls it on the Mac, sure it sucks for some things but in the end it's better for most people's user experience.
Aiden,
You seem to have a very personal "stake" for some reason for making an issue out of a non-issue. There have been numerous valid reasons stated here for Apple to deploy in this manner, but most of all, you have no grounding in fact nor first-hand knowledge of Apple's strategies. At best, you only have a claim of curious irony. The rest is just assumptions and wild conjecture.
Timbloom is absolutely correct and on point. Why would you assume they have no "trust" in their own network just because they opted to deploy assets physically? That is a juvenile reaction. I would rather conclude they do not trust infrastructure between their datacenter and their stores for such mission critical assets. As far as volatile last minute software problems, it's called "software update." Having the bulk of the assets already deployed, installed and verified means that a last minute update can be dropped in a manner of minutes opposed to hours by your method, which could delay launch.
I'm just saying, I did initially see the irony of them deploying assets physically while the product itself will only be available from the App Store, but I wouldn't make the assumptions you have.
Cheers back.
p.s. I do predict that they will have a physical disk option available after the launch. I personally think it's a big mistake on Apple's part to assume EVERYONE has ample bandwidth and/or an Apple Store within reasonable distance from them. I believe the App Store exclusivity is more to do with Apple being the only retail download source to boost App Store sales and eliminate retail packaging costs.
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It's not like each store gets their own switch port in some WAN closet plugged directly into the Cupertino LAN. The stores' connections get concentrated into far fewer than 300 individual pipes before they drop into the network there.
Well, it's not better for your experience, since you've been drooling at the prospect of Apple finally shipping OpenGL 3.2 with Lion.
Apple could ship their own OpenGL stuff for Quartz Extreme and let GPU vendors ship up-to-date versions for other developers to use. Nothing stops you from linking to different libraries.
Are you suggesting Apple's cupertino WAN connection (or their data center's WAN connection) can't handle 300 stores downloading an image, but Apple will handle millions of users doing it on day 1 ?
I think you should drop this argument right now if that is what you're hinting...
So people who disagree with you lack basic intelligence?
WOW!
What a kind of "brilliance" is required to honestly believe a company has failed their customers by providing them with a secondary means of purchasing their product?
Its perfectly logical for Apple to have physical copies of the OS they are about to launch, yet you still remain focused their motivations for being prepared. That criticism is both ridiculous and pointless
Thankfully the people at Apple don't operate under your logic. They would never accomplish anything.
I think Apple is reducing the risk of embarrassment should any of their stores screw up the download / imaging process, knowing it's a lot easier to just stick an HDD into a Mac. Plain and simple, it's both hypocrisy and image management. Apple knows people will forget these little details, and goo themselves over Lion in the long run.
Quite a bit, no pun intended. Fedex can have deliveries tracked and signed for and set specific delivery times/dates and check for proper ID when delivered. Also, these are likely bundles of images, not just one.. could easily be a different image for every make of machine+demo apps and materials. If it was more efficient for Apple to send it over a server and have all their retail locations just download it, they would.
The app store will be swamped when this item is released, and I know everyone here will complain. But it's a huge file, and tons of people will be downloading it within 10 minutes of it being posted. Hopefully Apple's implemented a queue system when it's swamped and not a "retry later" methodology.
Exactly why are people complaining about how Apple sends data to their retail locations? Seems like a private matter for Apple anyway.
I think Apple is reducing the risk of embarrassment should any of their stores screw up the download / imaging process, knowing it's a lot easier to just stick an HDD into a Mac. Plain and simple, it's both hypocrisy and image management. Apple knows people will forget these little details, and goo themselves over Lion in the long run.
bingo.
I don't think its a matter of IF their servers can handle it. I think its more of a is it possible to pull off over night. Hence the physical copy to mass install all at once, with a much lesser chance of failure than a digital download done through the developer servers (apple will have to have it on their machines first, ready to go before offical launch) which more than likely does not have the bandwidth the 'everyone else' servers have.
Huh? Each Apple Retail store has two separate networks in it. One is a private WAN that goes back to Cupertino, the other is the public Internet (that the machines in the front of the store use). Neither of those networks at the store have anything to do with the App/iTunes Store, Apple's Data Centers, MobileMe/iCloud, or any other separate business segment that Apple runs.
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Am I the only one who gets the impression that you somehow have a copy that you shouldn't have and now want advice on what to do with it?
Well has anyone got advice on what he should do with it?
The ultimate irony is that they normally do distribute these images electronically. Stores have downloaded and done the image process for years. Like I said, the images are usually done days in advance.I think Apple is reducing the risk of embarrassment should any of their stores screw up the download / imaging process, knowing it's a lot easier to just stick an HDD into a Mac. Plain and simple, it's both hypocrisy and image management. Apple knows people will forget these little details, and goo themselves over Lion in the long run.
Sigh. Without knowing what is on the "hard drive" how can you even have an intelligent discussion on using a network vs. shipping media.
Assume the store disk has an OS X Lion image, Kiosk mode stuff, iTunes Library, plus iLife, plus iWork, plus all off the media, demo movies, photo albums, garage band tracks, etc. That disk image might weigh in at 50 GB.
Now assume that you want to have a different configuration for each type of computer - one for Mac Books, MacBook Pros, iMacs, Mac Minis, MacBook Airs, and Mac Pros... So, 6 configurations (minimum) times 50 GB = 300 GB of data.
You want to send this data to all stores so that can do an overnight load and be assured everyone is ready to go at 8am? FedEx looks pretty good for 300GB.
Once all the stores have the initial system, you can do deltas, patches, and updates over the wire.
Seriously, even Amazon EC2 and S3 (the heart of Amazon's Cloud service) let's you ship them machine images and data sets on a variety of removable drives. Does that mean "Amazon has given up on the cloud?" Of course not.
Any business person can look at the situational requirements and make a call. In the hypothetical case I created (6 images of 50+ GB) the physical disk makes the most sense.
In the case of millions of people buying a $30 piece of software over the course of months, from all over the world - it makes sense to use a distributed edge based content distribution network.
I don't see any failure of logic here.
Assume the store disk has an OS X Lion image, Kiosk mode stuff, iTunes Library, plus iLife, plus iWork, plus all off the media, demo movies, photo albums, garage band tracks, etc. That disk image might weigh in at 50 GB.
Now assume that you want to have a different configuration for each type of computer - one for Mac Books, MacBook Pros, iMacs, Mac Minis, MacBook Airs, and Mac Pros... So, 6 configurations (minimum) times 50 GB = 300 GB of data.
You want to send this data to all stores so that can do an overnight load and be assured everyone is ready to go at 8am? FedEx looks pretty good for 300GB.
Once all the stores have the initial system, you can do deltas, patches, and updates over the wire.
Seriously, even Amazon EC2 and S3 (the heart of Amazon's Cloud service) let's you ship them machine images and data sets on a variety of removable drives. Does that mean "Amazon has given up on the cloud?" Of course not.
Any business person can look at the situational requirements and make a call. In the hypothetical case I created (6 images of 50+ GB) the physical disk makes the most sense.
In the case of millions of people buying a $30 piece of software over the course of months, from all over the world - it makes sense to use a distributed edge based content distribution network.
I don't see any failure of logic here.
Well, it's not better for your experience, since you've been drooling at the prospect of Apple finally shipping OpenGL 3.2 with Lion.
Apple could ship their own OpenGL stuff for Quartz Extreme and let GPU vendors ship up-to-date versions for other developers to use. Nothing stops you from linking to different libraries.
Oh I agree, it definitely hurts me. I assume they do it so that they don't run into driver issues with the cards, or implementation issues with the OS itself since Mac OS relies heavily on OpenGL. I can understand Apples point though since the majority of users do not need it.
I'm sure we can theorize all day but I would bet there are things in play beyond the obvious and only Apple knows for sure.
I can however think of a couple of reasons pretty quick... the Marketing factor, look at all the press this is getting as it is
And then the insurance factor... making sure that network failures (at the destination, not the source) and such don't interfere with a successful launch of Lion.I think the conclusion that you have drawn (Apple using physical disks delivered by Brown == iCloud failure) is nonsense.
Cheers.
Good overall analysis, now multiply this by more than 300 stores. Calculate this, that's 90TB to move in just a couple days over an internal network that we don't know the specifics of. It's all speculation, but seems a valid educated guess to me.