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Apple Rumor Casualty...
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I don't understand why someone posted all that garbage to the petition. Yeah, I would have to agree the petition will probably not work, but if you like the idea that Adam was fired, then don't sign it and forget the 2nd grade comments.
I feel bad for whoever started the petition because I think it was a thoughtful thing to do and then someone had to go on there putting all this crap up.
I feel bad for whoever started the petition because I think it was a thoughtful thing to do and then someone had to go on there putting all this crap up.
i don't think it was even a good idea to fire adam in the first place let alone the petition and this whole thread on MR.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Where's the grey?
I think you'll find that you are the one who insulted my intelligence. And you are the one who brought up the whole area of spelling and grammar. So I don't care if you do prefer to use lowercase 'i's, or not to capitalize your sentences, it is grammatically incorrect.
Back on topic. I don't know what the Apple NDA says, but some NDA's will prohibit taking screen shots, moving info to computers not controlled by the company, etc... I can't say if just his bringing it home was a violation of NDA, but it's not unreasonable to assume that it was. The point is if he blurred the image to prevent non-Apple folks seeing the info, then it is safe to assume that he knew that someone would see it. This guy is a CS major. He knew what he was doing, and Apple had every right to fire him. If I was his boss I would have too.
I think you'll find that you are the one who insulted my intelligence. And you are the one who brought up the whole area of spelling and grammar. So I don't care if you do prefer to use lowercase 'i's, or not to capitalize your sentences, it is grammatically incorrect.
Back on topic. I don't know what the Apple NDA says, but some NDA's will prohibit taking screen shots, moving info to computers not controlled by the company, etc... I can't say if just his bringing it home was a violation of NDA, but it's not unreasonable to assume that it was. The point is if he blurred the image to prevent non-Apple folks seeing the info, then it is safe to assume that he knew that someone would see it. This guy is a CS major. He knew what he was doing, and Apple had every right to fire him. If I was his boss I would have too.
This kid deserved what he got
Adam definitely deserved his firing. Anyone who thinks otherwise is completely ignorant of how the corportate world operates. Adam simply got a dosage of reality - he was living in a fantasy world based on how he preceived Apple as this perfect little, "wonderful" company. Well, when you violate an NDA policy, the **** is bound to hit the fan. Additionally, keep in mind that Adam Attarian NEVER worked for Apple - he worked in a RETAIL store in a shopping mall - there is a huge difference there, he was nothing more than a mall employee. Because Apple Retail is a subdivision of the company as a whole, retail employees fall under the same policies, but are smacked 10x faster and 10x harder for violating policies. Apple has a separate HR division for retail, a separate security dept for retail, basically EVERYTHING for retail is separate.
Put it this way, retail employees are easily disposable, and because practically ALL of the Apple stores were overhired, many, many employees have since been fired or laid off. Of course, Apple would much rather fire employees since lay-offs make the company look financially destitute. Apple expected a bunch of full-time retail employees to leave on their own account, because that's how the retail world operates. Retard, 3rd or 4th assistant managers from The Gap and Old Navy were purposely hired as Apple knew the more qualified people working under them would become pi$$ed and leave. Unfortunately, before most could leave, those same retarded retail managers would find ways to get their employees fired.
More people come & go from retail jobs than any other job. In this case, many of the full-timers Apple hired were not leaving due to slightly higher-than-normal retail pay, every full-timer also received some skimped version of the full corporate benefit package, and the false feeling of being employed by Apple as a corporate employee kept others on board longer than expected.
Adam is NO exception to the case of firings - I would estimate that roughly HALF of all MG's hired since Apple first opened their stores have been fired. Only a select few have quit or been laid off. It was MUCH easier for Apple to fire Mac Geniuses. Additionally, I would say that Adam's violation of an NDA policy is up there as one of the BEST reasons to fire an MG. Others were fired for much more arguable and shady reasons. Most of the noted "lead geniuses" that Apple hired from their phone support in Sacramento have also been fired - most lead geniuses were complete incompetent phone monkeys who should've NEVER left tech support in the first place.
As for the Apple policies, hourly retail employees DO NOT receive Apple-issued hardware and therefore are NOT permitted to download or even log into any of Apple's internal file servers without explicit permission from a manager or from someone on the corporate level. The fact that Adam logged into the internal file servers to take those screenshots was a violation in itself worthy of termination.
You also have to ask the question: "Why the hell did Adam take screenshots of Apple's Internal file servers in the first place?". Seems like very few have asked that one in these forums. Although I can't read the kid's mind, my first assumption would be that he originally took the screenshots to show off to his CS buddies at school. "Hey, I can get to all this cool *Apple Internal Only* software - who wants some?" Who knows how much this kid downloaded from those servers to distribute to his friends at school. Oh, yeah, it's all assumption-based, but typical of apple retail employees - and I guarantee that whoever fired him thought up all the thoughts I just mentioned. Many Mac Geniuses AND Sales Associates have been fired for unauthorized software duplication, warezing, and other ethical breaches (such as surfing porn sites at work, or eating in the AppleCare room - the room where customers' Macs are repaired), etc. I'm sure this wasn't the first time that Adam violated some sort of NDA or policy of ethics.
It frustrates me to see people placing petitions online, etc. Adam will NEVER get rehired, everyone has to learn to face that as the harsh reality. My advice to Adam - change your major at college to arts or music (you appear to not know jack **** about CS), consider applying to Target since you're an experience retail employee, and next time you get hired, try not to disclose confidential information - it just might get you fired again. Hopefully this kid learned his lesson. Since this case has received so much publicity on the rumor sites I would not be surprised if Apple goes after him in civil court. Yeah, it would be senseless for Apple to sue him, but it's possible.
Also, what's this crap about Adam being employed as a Mac Genius? Various sources have confirmed that Adam was nothing more than a lousy part-time sales associate. From what I've seen everyone here has assumed that Adam Attarian was a Mac Genius. I can't believe this kid is so bent for being canned as a SALESMAN.
Adam definitely deserved his firing. Anyone who thinks otherwise is completely ignorant of how the corportate world operates. Adam simply got a dosage of reality - he was living in a fantasy world based on how he preceived Apple as this perfect little, "wonderful" company. Well, when you violate an NDA policy, the **** is bound to hit the fan. Additionally, keep in mind that Adam Attarian NEVER worked for Apple - he worked in a RETAIL store in a shopping mall - there is a huge difference there, he was nothing more than a mall employee. Because Apple Retail is a subdivision of the company as a whole, retail employees fall under the same policies, but are smacked 10x faster and 10x harder for violating policies. Apple has a separate HR division for retail, a separate security dept for retail, basically EVERYTHING for retail is separate.
Put it this way, retail employees are easily disposable, and because practically ALL of the Apple stores were overhired, many, many employees have since been fired or laid off. Of course, Apple would much rather fire employees since lay-offs make the company look financially destitute. Apple expected a bunch of full-time retail employees to leave on their own account, because that's how the retail world operates. Retard, 3rd or 4th assistant managers from The Gap and Old Navy were purposely hired as Apple knew the more qualified people working under them would become pi$$ed and leave. Unfortunately, before most could leave, those same retarded retail managers would find ways to get their employees fired.
More people come & go from retail jobs than any other job. In this case, many of the full-timers Apple hired were not leaving due to slightly higher-than-normal retail pay, every full-timer also received some skimped version of the full corporate benefit package, and the false feeling of being employed by Apple as a corporate employee kept others on board longer than expected.
Adam is NO exception to the case of firings - I would estimate that roughly HALF of all MG's hired since Apple first opened their stores have been fired. Only a select few have quit or been laid off. It was MUCH easier for Apple to fire Mac Geniuses. Additionally, I would say that Adam's violation of an NDA policy is up there as one of the BEST reasons to fire an MG. Others were fired for much more arguable and shady reasons. Most of the noted "lead geniuses" that Apple hired from their phone support in Sacramento have also been fired - most lead geniuses were complete incompetent phone monkeys who should've NEVER left tech support in the first place.
As for the Apple policies, hourly retail employees DO NOT receive Apple-issued hardware and therefore are NOT permitted to download or even log into any of Apple's internal file servers without explicit permission from a manager or from someone on the corporate level. The fact that Adam logged into the internal file servers to take those screenshots was a violation in itself worthy of termination.
You also have to ask the question: "Why the hell did Adam take screenshots of Apple's Internal file servers in the first place?". Seems like very few have asked that one in these forums. Although I can't read the kid's mind, my first assumption would be that he originally took the screenshots to show off to his CS buddies at school. "Hey, I can get to all this cool *Apple Internal Only* software - who wants some?" Who knows how much this kid downloaded from those servers to distribute to his friends at school. Oh, yeah, it's all assumption-based, but typical of apple retail employees - and I guarantee that whoever fired him thought up all the thoughts I just mentioned. Many Mac Geniuses AND Sales Associates have been fired for unauthorized software duplication, warezing, and other ethical breaches (such as surfing porn sites at work, or eating in the AppleCare room - the room where customers' Macs are repaired), etc. I'm sure this wasn't the first time that Adam violated some sort of NDA or policy of ethics.
It frustrates me to see people placing petitions online, etc. Adam will NEVER get rehired, everyone has to learn to face that as the harsh reality. My advice to Adam - change your major at college to arts or music (you appear to not know jack **** about CS), consider applying to Target since you're an experience retail employee, and next time you get hired, try not to disclose confidential information - it just might get you fired again. Hopefully this kid learned his lesson. Since this case has received so much publicity on the rumor sites I would not be surprised if Apple goes after him in civil court. Yeah, it would be senseless for Apple to sue him, but it's possible.
Also, what's this crap about Adam being employed as a Mac Genius? Various sources have confirmed that Adam was nothing more than a lousy part-time sales associate. From what I've seen everyone here has assumed that Adam Attarian was a Mac Genius. I can't believe this kid is so bent for being canned as a SALESMAN.
Interesting debate...
FWIW, I'm inclined to disagree, but I don't dispute the fact that the kid made a mistake.
Yes, this is the direction I was thinking. If Apple's foolish enough to provide significantly sensitive corporate info to a mere retail employee, *shame on Apple*. Mistakes like this are bound to occur, day in and day out.
More the reason to compartmentalize your sensitive corporate info, so that the "temps" never have an opportunity to see it. Which really begs the question why these employees have an NDA in the first place, since its pragmatically not necessary for their environment. Apple's playing a nasty game here in that they're setting up their own people for failure, with no compensating chance of a reward.
So then if he shouldn't have had permissions, how did he get these photo's? Sounds to me that if Apple's on a rampage, then at least one more person must be canned as well.
Exactly. And since the Retail environment is inherently insecure, so Apple's a fool if they think that they can prevent simple screenshots of some of this stuff from ever getting out.
And on these lines, I think the next time I go into an Apple Store, I'll take along a personal Digital Camera and play the legal role of a screen-in-public-view Paparatzi, if for no other purpose than to show Apple that their Retail-level NDA is an excercise in futility.
Personally, I'm inclined to sign the petition even though I agree that Adam won't be rehired.
The dillemma that I see is that by many reports, Adam was providing superior customer service, and that's Apple's loss.
Apple has to realize that young people are prone to mistakes, and that when you have an employee who the customer likes, you have to forgive minor indiscretions such as this one appears to be.
Apple had better damn well hope that he doesn't become a celebrity down at the Gateway store, as an "Un-Switcher".
-hh
FWIW, I'm inclined to disagree, but I don't dispute the fact that the kid made a mistake.
Yes, this is the direction I was thinking. If Apple's foolish enough to provide significantly sensitive corporate info to a mere retail employee, *shame on Apple*. Mistakes like this are bound to occur, day in and day out.
More the reason to compartmentalize your sensitive corporate info, so that the "temps" never have an opportunity to see it. Which really begs the question why these employees have an NDA in the first place, since its pragmatically not necessary for their environment. Apple's playing a nasty game here in that they're setting up their own people for failure, with no compensating chance of a reward.
So then if he shouldn't have had permissions, how did he get these photo's? Sounds to me that if Apple's on a rampage, then at least one more person must be canned as well.
Exactly. And since the Retail environment is inherently insecure, so Apple's a fool if they think that they can prevent simple screenshots of some of this stuff from ever getting out.
And on these lines, I think the next time I go into an Apple Store, I'll take along a personal Digital Camera and play the legal role of a screen-in-public-view Paparatzi, if for no other purpose than to show Apple that their Retail-level NDA is an excercise in futility.
Personally, I'm inclined to sign the petition even though I agree that Adam won't be rehired.
The dillemma that I see is that by many reports, Adam was providing superior customer service, and that's Apple's loss.
Apple has to realize that young people are prone to mistakes, and that when you have an employee who the customer likes, you have to forgive minor indiscretions such as this one appears to be.
Apple had better damn well hope that he doesn't become a celebrity down at the Gateway store, as an "Un-Switcher".
-hh
PBzone's Internal Screenshots Update II
PBzone has posted a further update to their reasons for posting the screenshots.
It's worth having a revisit for those that never had the benefit of seeing the screenshots when discussing this thread.
Internal Screenshots update 11
I found the most interesting part of this thread was not the issue of whether it was fair for Apple to terminate Adam but in the huge contrast of goodwill in the responses.
I remember back when Apple killed the Newton in 1998 when Steve Jobs returned to the company, even though fans demonstrated in the parking lot of Apple's Cupertino campus. (Apple officials apparently gave them coffee and cookies but refused to resurrect the device).
Fans still take their Newtons to Jobs' keynote speeches at Macworld and wave them in the air in silent protest.
There is a very personal element for being a mac user and the expectations we have of Apple. Realistic or not.
I believe one of the motivations for having a Mac is the opportunity to take a position and defend it like some have in supporting Adam.
Maybe some of us expected Apple to
"...think different " ?
J
PBzone has posted a further update to their reasons for posting the screenshots.
It's worth having a revisit for those that never had the benefit of seeing the screenshots when discussing this thread.
Internal Screenshots update 11
I found the most interesting part of this thread was not the issue of whether it was fair for Apple to terminate Adam but in the huge contrast of goodwill in the responses.
I remember back when Apple killed the Newton in 1998 when Steve Jobs returned to the company, even though fans demonstrated in the parking lot of Apple's Cupertino campus. (Apple officials apparently gave them coffee and cookies but refused to resurrect the device).
Fans still take their Newtons to Jobs' keynote speeches at Macworld and wave them in the air in silent protest.
There is a very personal element for being a mac user and the expectations we have of Apple. Realistic or not.
I believe one of the motivations for having a Mac is the opportunity to take a position and defend it like some have in supporting Adam.
Maybe some of us expected Apple to
"...think different " ?
J
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Where's the grey?
ai, you are still missing the point. I've already apologized for this, and it wasn't an attack on your intelligence, it was an illustration about how even you can make mistakes. i made one too--i pointed out something you did as a mistake, and it really wasn't. but that doesn't mean you don't make mistakes, and it DOES NOT insult your intelligence at all, unless you think making mistakes makes you stupid, in which case, everyone that's ever lived is stupid. my lack of capitalization is indeed a grammatical error, but it is intentional, like James Joyce's sentence structure, or Emily Dickinson's poetic style. mispelling is a mistake, whether you just make a typo or you really have no clue how to spell a word, and are just too lazy to check, or you think it's right.
once again, i am not apologizing for insulting your intelligence, because it was never my intention to do so, nor do i believe i have. i was simply making an application to your (and everyone else's) life as to why mercy is due. i am, however, sorry once again for making a mistake with naivety/naïveté, but it just goes to extend the illustration to me; i realize that i am in just as great a need of mercy as you are, and Adam.
ai, you are still missing the point. I've already apologized for this, and it wasn't an attack on your intelligence, it was an illustration about how even you can make mistakes. i made one too--i pointed out something you did as a mistake, and it really wasn't. but that doesn't mean you don't make mistakes, and it DOES NOT insult your intelligence at all, unless you think making mistakes makes you stupid, in which case, everyone that's ever lived is stupid. my lack of capitalization is indeed a grammatical error, but it is intentional, like James Joyce's sentence structure, or Emily Dickinson's poetic style. mispelling is a mistake, whether you just make a typo or you really have no clue how to spell a word, and are just too lazy to check, or you think it's right.
once again, i am not apologizing for insulting your intelligence, because it was never my intention to do so, nor do i believe i have. i was simply making an application to your (and everyone else's) life as to why mercy is due. i am, however, sorry once again for making a mistake with naivety/naïveté, but it just goes to extend the illustration to me; i realize that i am in just as great a need of mercy as you are, and Adam.
Re: PBzone's Internal Screenshots Update II
thanks for the info. i still dislike the fact that they even raised the issue by publishing this article, but it certainly makes them look much less mean and much more simply willing to post an article that contains nothing redeemable in the least--it makes them look like ambulance chasers. "the damage has been done, so we may as well inform the mac community about it so they can all go and see the files... he's not going to get into any LESS trouble, right?" Now that i think about it, i still don't like PBzone at all.
I thoroughly enjoyed your comments about thinking apple would think different, but i do see that as a large corporation they really can't afford to hold a double standard to him. i do think that they should lighten their standard though. for a minor leak that costs them nothing, it seems like they could show mercy the first time.
thanks for the info. i still dislike the fact that they even raised the issue by publishing this article, but it certainly makes them look much less mean and much more simply willing to post an article that contains nothing redeemable in the least--it makes them look like ambulance chasers. "the damage has been done, so we may as well inform the mac community about it so they can all go and see the files... he's not going to get into any LESS trouble, right?" Now that i think about it, i still don't like PBzone at all.
I thoroughly enjoyed your comments about thinking apple would think different, but i do see that as a large corporation they really can't afford to hold a double standard to him. i do think that they should lighten their standard though. for a minor leak that costs them nothing, it seems like they could show mercy the first time.
English is FUN!
I have to point this out, Shadowfax: mispelling can be used as a stylistic element in literature as well. Authors often use it to give a character a distinctive voice, or to set a piece in a period/location.
The English language is something that is played with, mangled, destroyed and resurrected in literature all the time. You might want to come down off that horse - be careful, that first step's a doozy.
I have to point this out, Shadowfax: mispelling can be used as a stylistic element in literature as well. Authors often use it to give a character a distinctive voice, or to set a piece in a period/location.
The English language is something that is played with, mangled, destroyed and resurrected in literature all the time. You might want to come down off that horse - be careful, that first step's a doozy.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Where's the grey?
Sorry, but that was a little insulting, although I realize that it was tounge in cheek. I have no personal problem with you, I was just a little put back at you vehement reply to my original post. I don't know you, your background or anything about you, so I don't like to make judgments.
Now, I agree that the world is in need of mercy, however, from reading Adam's blogs, I am of the impression that he still has no idea why what he did was wrong other than the fact that he lost his job. Furthermore, I can almost guarantee that if Apple had not fired him and just slapped his wrist that he would continue to do exactly the same thing, but hide it better.
I response to the comments that Apple has lost a talented and well liked employee, I don't know what to say. If he had worked for me I would have fired him even if he was the best most loved employee I had. Teenagers who want to work for Apple are a dime a dozen, and I'll bet that Apple will have no problem filling his shoes.
Sorry, but that was a little insulting, although I realize that it was tounge in cheek. I have no personal problem with you, I was just a little put back at you vehement reply to my original post. I don't know you, your background or anything about you, so I don't like to make judgments.
Now, I agree that the world is in need of mercy, however, from reading Adam's blogs, I am of the impression that he still has no idea why what he did was wrong other than the fact that he lost his job. Furthermore, I can almost guarantee that if Apple had not fired him and just slapped his wrist that he would continue to do exactly the same thing, but hide it better.
I response to the comments that Apple has lost a talented and well liked employee, I don't know what to say. If he had worked for me I would have fired him even if he was the best most loved employee I had. Teenagers who want to work for Apple are a dime a dozen, and I'll bet that Apple will have no problem filling his shoes.
Re: English is FUN!
huckleberry finn did come to mind quickly. i made my generalization about spelling to fast; i was thinking about high school papers and this forum.
reconsidering, it seems that writers do mispell things on purpose to give a certain voice to a character, but i don't think that using a dialect from a different period could be considered mispelling, unless it's actually considered incorrect within that dialect. the old colour/color issue, i see. thanks for bringing that up, i guess i am jumping to the isle of conclusions rather quickly in certain places, but i still maintain my overarching point.
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
I have to point this out, Shadowfax: mispelling can be used as a stylistic element in literature as well. Authors often use it to give a character a distinctive voice, or to set a piece in a period/location.
The English language is something that is played with, mangled, destroyed and resurrected in literature all the time. You might want to come down off that horse - be careful, that first step's a doozy.
huckleberry finn did come to mind quickly. i made my generalization about spelling to fast; i was thinking about high school papers and this forum.
reconsidering, it seems that writers do mispell things on purpose to give a certain voice to a character, but i don't think that using a dialect from a different period could be considered mispelling, unless it's actually considered incorrect within that dialect. the old colour/color issue, i see. thanks for bringing that up, i guess i am jumping to the isle of conclusions rather quickly in certain places, but i still maintain my overarching point
.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Where's the grey?
about five posts after you said "truce," i think i am ready to call it too. I am sorry for looking vehement, but i really was completely joking about the "demise of the english language," as you clearly understand. I just want to emphasize that and apologize for any initial misconceptions that may have facilitated.
I have read them as well, and i think this is debatable, but i do admit that they are at the least ambiguous. i think now that he has had his pants scared off him, if he were able to come back, he would DEFINITELY be more careful, but there is a lot to be said for excessive lenience. i meant to quote Bardolph from Henry V some time ago in here - "do not, when thou art king, hang a thief!"
Henry replied, "No; thou shalt."
now that i think of it, this may not be in the play itself, but rather in Branagh's ingenious 1989 film rendition of it, in which case the lines are probably from Henry IV or something. that play/movie is a great analysis of guilt and mercy, among other things. i highly recommend it to anyone who's interested in this issue.
I think that we've resolved our issues for the most part, and are in agreement at least on principle, if not on the actual implementation of it.
he's certainly replaceable, i'll give you that one. i would jump on his job, myself. unfortunately, there are no Apple stores here in Austin.
about five posts after you said "truce," i think i am ready to call it too. I am sorry for looking vehement, but i really was completely joking about the "demise of the english language," as you clearly understand. I just want to emphasize that and apologize for any initial misconceptions that may have facilitated.
I have read them as well, and i think this is debatable, but i do admit that they are at the least ambiguous. i think now that he has had his pants scared off him, if he were able to come back, he would DEFINITELY be more careful, but there is a lot to be said for excessive lenience. i meant to quote Bardolph from Henry V some time ago in here - "do not, when thou art king, hang a thief!"
Henry replied, "No; thou shalt."
now that i think of it, this may not be in the play itself, but rather in Branagh's ingenious 1989 film rendition of it, in which case the lines are probably from Henry IV or something. that play/movie is a great analysis of guilt and mercy, among other things. i highly recommend it to anyone who's interested in this issue.
I think that we've resolved our issues for the most part, and are in agreement at least on principle, if not on the actual implementation of it.
he's certainly replaceable, i'll give you that one. i would jump on his job, myself. unfortunately, there are no Apple stores here in Austin
.Spelling
Awwww, misspelled. Probably one of the most commonly misspelled words in the English language!
Awwww, misspelled. Probably one of the most commonly misspelled words in the English language!
okay...a thread about Adam turns into a thread bout misspelling? Okay...
Adam does not deserve to be fired and that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. You can say that i'm exercising my first amendment rights (if there is such a thing).
Adam does not deserve to be fired and that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. You can say that i'm exercising my first amendment rights (if there is such a thing).
Jesus Christ.
Suddenly, all the board trolls come out and take their anger and their pathetic little whining about how the poor guy "deserved to be fired".
People make mistakes, and also deserve to have second chances. He was negligent, yes, but almost every person who posted on this topic have probably been moreso.
I really don't see about what Apple seems to gain about firing one intelligent and upcoming employees.
Suddenly, all the board trolls come out and take their anger and their pathetic little whining about how the poor guy "deserved to be fired".
People make mistakes, and also deserve to have second chances. He was negligent, yes, but almost every person who posted on this topic have probably been moreso.
I really don't see about what Apple seems to gain about firing one intelligent and upcoming employees.
I Quit
I will say it is unlikely adam will get rehired. I signed the petition because I don't think it's fair, but that's the way it is. Adam is young. He'll get over it, he'll find another job, and he'll be more careful in the future. I think apple was stupid to put information they didn't want divulged in front of a 19 year old kid, but what he did was a mistake in judgement. PBZ showed disrespect for Adam for whatever reason, but that's done. Case Closed.
Incedently, Whois data for PBZ shows an adress in my home town of Baton Rouge. We have a joke around here that everything bad has roots in Baton Rouge (from the Beltway Sniper, to our own Serial Killer to the American Taliban). This is just more proof
I am done reading or posting in this thread. Continue your discussions about spelling.
I will say it is unlikely adam will get rehired. I signed the petition because I don't think it's fair, but that's the way it is. Adam is young. He'll get over it, he'll find another job, and he'll be more careful in the future. I think apple was stupid to put information they didn't want divulged in front of a 19 year old kid, but what he did was a mistake in judgement. PBZ showed disrespect for Adam for whatever reason, but that's done. Case Closed.
Incedently, Whois data for PBZ shows an adress in my home town of Baton Rouge. We have a joke around here that everything bad has roots in Baton Rouge (from the Beltway Sniper, to our own Serial Killer to the American Taliban). This is just more proof
I am done reading or posting in this thread. Continue your discussions about spelling.
Re: I Quit
Well, that information was necessary to an Apple Store employee, as he needed to use the program that would retrieve customer information.
Also, I'm pretty sure they would be informed about an upcoming project a bit before it comes out, so they could provide iformation about it and successfully sell it.
Well, that information was necessary to an Apple Store employee, as he needed to use the program that would retrieve customer information.
Also, I'm pretty sure they would be informed about an upcoming project a bit before it comes out, so they could provide iformation about it and successfully sell it.
Re: I Quit
Ummm the problem is that getting fired by Apple is gonna ruin his entire resumé. He's not gonna be able to get a decent job for a long time.
Reply to hh's response a few posts above....
hh :
Ok, I somewhat agree with what you stated. However, you are, in a sense, removing any responsibility from the employees themselves (or, possibly you're just being sarcastic). Employees still must adhere to ethics policies and constantly ask themselves "am I supposed to be doing this?". If you're not sure of the answer to that question, ask someone above you so that the issue becomes *their* responsibility.
The private, behind-the-firewall access is provided to the stores so that MG's can get access to Apple's "internal" kbase articles, not viewable by the public. However, I would certainly approve of any decision made to yank access to internal file servers from the retail stores - all necessary software is MAILED to the stores via FedEx for installation on back-of-house and front-of-house systems, so it's entirely unnecessary to allow access to internal file servers at the Retail stores.
I disagree there - Apple shouldn't have to take measures to prevent those types of incidents. Well, let me restate that -- Apple DOES take measures to prevent "leakage" of confidential information - it's called "You're f'n fired, b*tch!". ALL employees know this, but apparently this didn't phase Adam.
Retail employees are told time & time again NOT to commit such acts as they violate Apple's NDA policies. Adam might not be all that bright, but he's certainly not a Lemming - he can make his own decisions and must certainly held liable for the consequences of those decisions.
As for the digital camera idea, about 6 months ago Apple enacted a policy that CUSTOMERS are NOT permitted to bring in digital cameras to take any sort of flash photography/video inside of the store, unless they bring the camera in for a training session and are CONSTANTLY supervised by an employee of the store. If you have trouble believing what I say, stop by your local Apple Store and speak with one of the managers about this. So, that basically shoots down that idea.
I would disagree that firing Adam was a "loss" for Apple. He was a sales associate, not some vice president or virtuoso software developer that Apple depends on. I'm not going to argue whether or not he was excellent at selling Apple's goods, it doesn't really matter if he's the best sales associate from here to Mississippi, he violated a fairly major policy. If anything, firing Adam was a gain for Apple - he definitely won't be leaking any more confidential information, AND, Apple freed up some payroll (most of the Apple stores are still grossly over-hired and over-staffed).
This is where I have to bring in the "life just ain't fair" concept. Yeah, people undoubtedly make mistakes, but I would say that what Adam did was too intentional and blatant to simply pass it off as a mistake. I'm sure that at some point this thought, or something similar crossed his mind "hey, maybe I shouldn't be taking screen shots of sensitive information". Then again, I'm not a mind reader, maybe Adam was stoned or under the influence of some other substance and therefore his decision-making was impaired....but, oh, I forgot, this is another policy violation worthy of instant termination.
Let me state for the record that I LOATHE Apple as a company. I worked for them as a senior software engineer for a couple of years and they were, by far, the WORST employer I ever had. I absolutely love it when I see employees that have the balls (or lack the intelligence) to leak company information. Apple sucks as an employer, but I still like their products. Anyone who says "oh, Apple is an awesome company to work for" is either in their first month of emploment there, NOT really employed by Apple, or is just BS'ing to mask their contempt for the company.
Several buddies of mine currently work at Apple stores (most are there part-time, some are full-time - I pity them), all of them are currently seeking employment elsewhere when not at work. The only reason they've stayed there is due to the employee purchase plan (25% off a Mac system makes part-time employment worthwhile if you can tolerate the stupidity of the idiot retail managers).
So, hh, you brought up some decent points but I definitely would say that you are biased here - you're too pro-Adam. Look at the larger picture, he is certainly responsible for his actions, no matter how little or how unimportant the screenshots may have been regarding "sensitive" information. The facts are clear - Adam took screenshots of something he shouldn't have had gotten into in the first place (he wasn't an MG or a Manager so he was DEFINITELY not permitted to even see that information), he most likely knew the consequences, and went ahead and did it anyway.
I rest my case.
hh :
Ok, I somewhat agree with what you stated. However, you are, in a sense, removing any responsibility from the employees themselves (or, possibly you're just being sarcastic). Employees still must adhere to ethics policies and constantly ask themselves "am I supposed to be doing this?". If you're not sure of the answer to that question, ask someone above you so that the issue becomes *their* responsibility.
The private, behind-the-firewall access is provided to the stores so that MG's can get access to Apple's "internal" kbase articles, not viewable by the public. However, I would certainly approve of any decision made to yank access to internal file servers from the retail stores - all necessary software is MAILED to the stores via FedEx for installation on back-of-house and front-of-house systems, so it's entirely unnecessary to allow access to internal file servers at the Retail stores.
I disagree there - Apple shouldn't have to take measures to prevent those types of incidents. Well, let me restate that -- Apple DOES take measures to prevent "leakage" of confidential information - it's called "You're f'n fired, b*tch!". ALL employees know this, but apparently this didn't phase Adam.
Retail employees are told time & time again NOT to commit such acts as they violate Apple's NDA policies. Adam might not be all that bright, but he's certainly not a Lemming - he can make his own decisions and must certainly held liable for the consequences of those decisions.
As for the digital camera idea, about 6 months ago Apple enacted a policy that CUSTOMERS are NOT permitted to bring in digital cameras to take any sort of flash photography/video inside of the store, unless they bring the camera in for a training session and are CONSTANTLY supervised by an employee of the store. If you have trouble believing what I say, stop by your local Apple Store and speak with one of the managers about this. So, that basically shoots down that idea.
I would disagree that firing Adam was a "loss" for Apple. He was a sales associate, not some vice president or virtuoso software developer that Apple depends on. I'm not going to argue whether or not he was excellent at selling Apple's goods, it doesn't really matter if he's the best sales associate from here to Mississippi, he violated a fairly major policy. If anything, firing Adam was a gain for Apple - he definitely won't be leaking any more confidential information, AND, Apple freed up some payroll (most of the Apple stores are still grossly over-hired and over-staffed).
This is where I have to bring in the "life just ain't fair" concept. Yeah, people undoubtedly make mistakes, but I would say that what Adam did was too intentional and blatant to simply pass it off as a mistake. I'm sure that at some point this thought, or something similar crossed his mind "hey, maybe I shouldn't be taking screen shots of sensitive information". Then again, I'm not a mind reader, maybe Adam was stoned or under the influence of some other substance and therefore his decision-making was impaired....but, oh, I forgot, this is another policy violation worthy of instant termination.
Let me state for the record that I LOATHE Apple as a company. I worked for them as a senior software engineer for a couple of years and they were, by far, the WORST employer I ever had. I absolutely love it when I see employees that have the balls (or lack the intelligence) to leak company information. Apple sucks as an employer, but I still like their products. Anyone who says "oh, Apple is an awesome company to work for" is either in their first month of emploment there, NOT really employed by Apple, or is just BS'ing to mask their contempt for the company.
Several buddies of mine currently work at Apple stores (most are there part-time, some are full-time - I pity them), all of them are currently seeking employment elsewhere when not at work. The only reason they've stayed there is due to the employee purchase plan (25% off a Mac system makes part-time employment worthwhile if you can tolerate the stupidity of the idiot retail managers).
So, hh, you brought up some decent points but I definitely would say that you are biased here - you're too pro-Adam. Look at the larger picture, he is certainly responsible for his actions, no matter how little or how unimportant the screenshots may have been regarding "sensitive" information. The facts are clear - Adam took screenshots of something he shouldn't have had gotten into in the first place (he wasn't an MG or a Manager so he was DEFINITELY not permitted to even see that information), he most likely knew the consequences, and went ahead and did it anyway.
I rest my case.
Re: Re: I Quit
i don't know... that's not necessarily true. it can't help, but i bet he'll get another job without to much hullabaloo. seriously, much worse things have happened to people. it's not as bad as a dishonorable discharge from the army, i can't imagine. and even that is not as it used to be.
i don't know... that's not necessarily true. it can't help, but i bet he'll get another job without to much hullabaloo. seriously, much worse things have happened to people. it's not as bad as a dishonorable discharge from the army, i can't imagine. and even that is not as it used to be.
yeah but if you wanted to hire him wouldn't you hesitate to think bout how exactly trustworthy he was?
that goes with the territory of screwing up, i guess. He can explain himself to prospective employers, write little cheesy essays about the lessons he learned from his experience with apple... someone will have the mercy that we (i) have been saying is so needed in situations like these.
if your boyfriend lies to you, is the relationship over just like that? especially if it is just a white lie? someone will have mercy on him. faith!
Re: Reply to hh's response a few posts above....
now that someone's mentioned Jesus, isn't it almost ironic that the guy's name is Adam? anyone else think about this and chuckle?
now that someone's mentioned Jesus, isn't it almost ironic that the guy's name is Adam? anyone else think about this and chuckle?