Apple Rumored to Debut 4.8-Inch 'iPhone Math' in June

[KnightWRX]

Innovation not only means to achieve different goals but also means to achieve the same goal in different ways.
5"screen isn't something innovative, but to achieve that by using flexible screen or other innovative ways can make it a innovation.

Using a flexible screen ? You mean like Samsung has been showing off since CES 2011 ? Why would that be an "Apple innovation" exactly ? It's not like they came up with the concept, nor the technology behind flexible screens.

Nothing really innovative Apple can do in the screen department at this point. They are simply users of what manufacturers put out there. Apple's innovation usually comes from high polish and the software running the hardware they source from 3rd parties.

 

[Koernerdan]

I don't care what they call it aslong as it's on T-mobile. I am so fed up with them. Said iPhone would come to T-mobile in January!!
(PS Maybe the processor is the reason why they renamed it.)

 

[Neodym]

Apple's innovation usually comes from high polish and the software running the hardware they source from 3rd parties.

While i basically agree, i think it goes a little further: Apples also pushes 3rd parties to produce the hardware they like to have.

For example i doubt Retina-resolution displays would have been out by now w/o Apple demanding it for their iDevices. Same goes for the components in the original MacBook Air, which eventually founded a whole device category. And wasn't there a story recently about Apple convincing Corning to continue development on their Gorilla glass? Or the huge invest in Sharp for IGZO displays?!

I'm pretty sure there are lots of things going on behind the scenes where Apple influences manufacturers actively to get what they want.

With the latest Ax chips in their iDevices they have also begun to develop hardware themselves (granted: based on ARM's foundation), even if you could argue that technically it's software, as they tweak the microcode.

 

[KnightWRX]

While i basically agree, i think it goes a little further: Apples also pushes 3rd parties to produce the hardware they like to have.

Let's see if you have any examples of that.

For example i doubt Retina-resolution displays would have been out by now w/o Apple demanding it for their iDevices.

I have 3 words : Toshiba Protege G900. Look it up. It'll save us a very, very long conversation. That's 1 example. BTW, the 3GS was rumored to have a Retina display, because 480x320 was being left behind for high end devices that year. Motorola's Droid and the HTC Nexus One were already rumored to come with high-res displays.

Apple was late to the "high-res" smartphone game. So doubt all you want, we already had "retina" resolution displays in customer hands before Apple even announced theirs. This was already mainstream.

Same goes for the components in the original MacBook Air, which eventually founded a whole device category.

The Sony Vaio X505 disagrees about who "founded" the whole category.

And wasn't there a story recently about Apple convincing Corning to continue development on their Gorilla glass? Or the huge invest in Sharp for IGZO displays?!

Sharp and Corning's had made the products on their own, though for Corning's, the application had not been smartphones before, but helicopter windshields. The IGZO display thing was already under way, and Apple hasn't used them yet.

I'm pretty sure there are lots of things going on behind the scenes where Apple influences manufacturers actively to get what they want.

Flexible displays is not one of those though, which is what I responding to initially. Samsung and others have been showing them for a while.

With the latest Ax chips in their iDevices they have also begun to develop hardware themselves (granted: based on ARM's foundation), even if you could argue that technically it's software, as they tweak the microcode.

No, that's actual hardware design. They still source the manufacturing from a 3rd party, but they bought 2 Fabless microprocessor firms to bring in the expertise, PA Semi and

But there's nothing really innovative in the AX chips. They're basically ARM processors coupled with Imagination Technologies GPU. Just another SoC like the Tegra, Snapdragon, Mali or Exynos. Innovation means "new or new way", the AX is basically "one of the boys, done like the boys". It's not innovative per se.

Again, the way I see it, Apple brings polish to their devices. The software side is clean and usuable and while it's all "known elements", it's usually done fresh and new in the sense that it all simply integrates well and works great.

That's what Apple innovates on, polishing existing ideas and concept and making them usuable to the masses instead of just a few tech geeks who don't mind the issues and limitations.

 

[Toadstall]

Wait so if they release a 4'8 phone called math.. Will iphone 5S be a cheaper option? Will,this bigger phone have all the best features?

A bigger screen is needed otherwise I would get the S4

Cheaper ? Cant see that. But at the same time they are significantly priced above all other (normal) phones in the UK market - by some margin so cant see it being more money either. Iphones UK 500 - 700, my 4S with apple care £760.
For ref - I always buy contract free (whatever the phone), cant comment on contracts.

Bigger screen needed? like everything else - theyll make use of real estate rather than needed. Just my thoughts.

BTW - seeing as Jony is undoubtedly reading my comments - Id like titanium please

 

[jouster]

Be sure to dump AAPL before the teens decide that Apple isn't cool anymore....

Too late!

 

[Neodym]

Apple was late to the "high-res" smartphone game.

I was rather thinking of the 9.7" iPad and the 15" rMBP displays. Sorry - my fault not to express myself more clearly.

So doubt all you want, we already had "retina" resolution displays in customer hands before Apple even announced theirs. This was already mainstream.

None of the devices you mentioned have sold in numbers that would qualify as mainstream in my eyes.

The Sony Vaio X505 disagrees about who "founded" the whole category.

The Vaio has been showcased 2004. It was nothing but a technology demonstration. Only after Apple introduced the MacBook Air in 2008 and were so successful with it (and even had Intel delivering a dedicated CPU for it before general availability), Intel dared to define the Ultrabook category in 2011. To actually found a category it needs more than showcasing a few units and maybe sell a handful of them.

Therefore i'd clearly see the laurels on Apple's side here (even though i usually am very reserved towards Apple's (or Microsoft's, for that matter)) contributions to progress.

Sharp and Corning's had made the products on their own, though for Corning's, the application had not been smartphones before, but helicopter windshields.

... so Apple influenced them in a way that Corning entered the smartphone / tablet market instead of giving up on the product.

The IGZO display thing was already under way, and Apple hasn't used them yet.

...and IGZO development would have been axed had Apple not invested a huge amount of money in them.

I'd say in both cases Apple's actions were a little more than simply taking what's available on the market and polish it - which is what i originally stated, nothing more.

Flexible displays is not one of those though, which is what I responding to initially. Samsung and others have been showing them for a while.

I never doubted that - just added a different (my personal) point of view regarding Apple's motivations in general.

But there's nothing really innovative in the AX chips. They're basically ARM processors coupled with Imagination Technologies GPU. Just another SoC like the Tegra, Snapdragon, Mali or Exynos. Innovation means "new or new way", the AX is basically "one of the boys, done like the boys".

Your understanding of "innovation" may be different from mine, but to me it's highly innovative to improve a reliable, but less capable CPU architecture by optimizing it by hand, so it can compete with more modern (and thus more expensive) architectures performancewise, while using less battery power. Even more so in an environment, that tries to avoid manual labour as the plague.

To me "innovation" means to leave the paths of common knowledge or agreed behaviour if the result is significantly better than going the standard route. And this is a given with the Ax architecture.

That's what Apple innovates on, polishing existing ideas and concept and making them usuable to the masses instead

I do agree with you here! Except that i perceive Apple as also drafting its own concepts and trying to push them through - even if all asked engineers and controllers tell you it's not possible. At least that was the way Apple worked with SJ at the helm, whose stubbornness in realizing ideas he'd consider right and valuable was proverbial.

 

[The Game 161]

Cheaper ? Cant see that. But at the same time they are significantly priced above all other (normal) phones in the UK market - by some margin so cant see it being more money either. Iphones UK 500 - 700, my 4S with apple care £760.
For ref - I always buy contract free (whatever the phone), cant comment on contracts.

Bigger screen needed? like everything else - theyll make use of real estate rather than needed. Just my thoughts.

BTW - seeing as Jony is undoubtedly reading my comments - Id like titanium please

Sorry bigger screen is needed for me not people in general.

 

[bbplayer5]

Even the new blackberry looks like its far greater than the iPhone 5.

 

[Toadstall]

Sorry bigger screen is needed for me not people in general.

Ah ok -

Direct opposite to my wish list - but hey different jokes different folks.

 

[KnightWRX]

None of the devices you mentioned have sold in numbers that would qualify as mainstream in my eyes.

Both the Motorola Droid/Milestone and the HTC Nexus One/Desire were mainstream. Don't move the barrier up just to fit your particular definition of Apple being "first". Apple was late. They did finally show up, so no fret.

The Vaio has been showcased 2004. It was nothing but a technology demonstration. Only after Apple introduced the MacBook Air in 2008 and were so successful with it

You're rewriting history here. The Vaio was an actual shipping product and Apple didn't quite have a big success with the first 3 revisions of the Air. The product, especially Rev A., was quite niche and suffered very nasty issues.

...and IGZO development would have been axed had Apple not invested a huge amount of money in them.

And again, we don't know why Apple invested in Sharp. It could also be just because they want to have a 3rd supplier of displays, having relied on LG and Samsung for quite a while for all their display needs.

Like Liquid Metal, Apple has yet to use any IGZO displays. It seems IGZO is more bound to the 4K TV market than "phones/tablets" though, as already products are being announced : http://www.auo.com/?sn=107&lang=en-US&c=10&n=1459. With all manufacturers showing off 4K UHDTVs at CES this year, seems clear this isn't an "Apple" innovation. It's entirely Sharp's.

Your understanding of "innovation" may be different from mine, but to me it's highly innovative to improve a reliable, but less capable CPU architecture by optimizing it by hand, so it can compete with more modern (and thus more expensive) architectures performancewise, while using less battery power. Even more so in an environment, that tries to avoid manual labour as the plague.

Except the AX is not competing with more "modern" architectures performance wise. It's still very much giving us the same performance that other SoCs are (latest generation Snapdragons, Malis, Exynos). Apple's AX strength is solely based on their use of the superior Imagination Technologies GPUs, the PowerVR 5 series and soon to be 6 series "Rogue" processors.

Sure they might have found a few optimisation paths from ARM's reference designs, but the gains aren't as big as you think.

And frankly, Apple is not the only one that customizes ARM reference designs.

To me "innovation" means to leave the paths of common knowledge or agreed behaviour if the result is significantly better than going the standard route. And this is a given with the Ax architecture.

And other SoCs. AX is just "one the boys". Innovation means new, not doing the same efficient thing everyone else is doing.

The word is over used and badly used to boot. Apple doesn't need to be constantly innovating, they never have been in the past and it still worked out.

 

[SactoGuy18]

It may sound ridiculous, but the fact that the Samsung Galaxy Note series of phablets have become a very profitable niche for Samsung tells me that Apple doesn't want to be "left at the altar" of bigger phones, especially since Samsung showed using a pointing stylus hasn't hampered its success of its bigger "phone."

I right now think Apple will have two phones, if this report is true:

1. An iPhone 5-derived model that is a tad "thicker" to accommodate an NFC radio/antenna system.

2. A 4.8" phablet phone to compete against the Galaxy Note series, which also will have NFC.

In short, the days of Apple offering only one new model per year is officially over.

 

[the8thark]

So are you saying that everyone who has an android phone >4" is having problems putting their phone in their pocket? Ummmm because my 4.6" Skyrocket fits just as well/easily as my iPhone did. Have a nice day.

Not everyone has as large pockets as you do. I'm saying for the average pocket size it'd be annoying to get in and out. All of the folk I know who own a physically large android phone, >4" all have a case with a hard clip to clip the phone to their belt to avoid the whole pocket issue.

 

[KnightWRX]

Not everyone has as large pockets as you do. I'm saying for the average pocket size it'd be annoying to get in and out. All of the folk I know who own a physically large android phone, >4" all have a case with a hard clip to clip the phone to their belt to avoid the whole pocket issue.

I have size 30/30 skinny fit jeans. I can fit all those phones perfectly in my pockets.

If anything, those small pockets you guys talk about are what isn't "average".

 

[the8thark]

I have size 30/30 skinny fit jeans. I can fit all those phones perfectly in my pockets.

If anything, those small pockets you guys talk about are what isn't "average".

My assessment of what is "the average pocket size" is a sample size of about 250 people I know personally around my city, large one. And the pockets they have. From 6 years old to 85 years old, male and female. Small sample size, but I'm not going to go ask a random stranger how large is your pocket. And from this I stand by what I have said. If millions around the world have different weird size pockets, that's fine, But it's not average.

How do you define what "the average pocket size" is?

 

[sneaky butcher]

great, now ifans can look at an even bigger row of icons

 

[KnightWRX]

My assessment of what is "the average pocket size" is a sample size of about 250 people I know personally around my city, large one. And the pockets they have. From 6 years old to 85 years old, male and female. Small sample size, but I'm not going to go ask a random stranger how large is your pocket. And from this I stand by what I have said. If millions around the world have different weird size pockets, that's fine, But it's not average.

How do you define what "the average pocket size" is?

By the average pocket size of clothes on the rack. And seriously, you think my size 30 jeans have bigger than average pockets or something ?

 

[yakapo]

If you are a developer and you don't want to have to make your apps in a different res, then don't make apps in a different resolution. There are thousands of others that will. Nobody will notice.

----------

My assessment of what is "the average pocket size" is a sample size of about 250 people I know personally around my city, large one. And the pockets they have. From 6 years old to 85 years old, male and female. Small sample size, but I'm not going to go ask a random stranger how large is your pocket. And from this I stand by what I have said. If millions around the world have different weird size pockets, that's fine, But it's not average.

How do you define what "the average pocket size" is?

Who cares? that's why they will have more than one size phone - to meet the needs of different people.

 

[samcraig]

Not everyone has as large pockets as you do. I'm saying for the average pocket size it'd be annoying to get in and out. All of the folk I know who own a physically large android phone, >4" all have a case with a hard clip to clip the phone to their belt to avoid the whole pocket issue.

My assessment of what is "the average pocket size" is a sample size of about 250 people I know personally around my city, large one. And the pockets they have. From 6 years old to 85 years old, male and female. Small sample size, but I'm not going to go ask a random stranger how large is your pocket. And from this I stand by what I have said. If millions around the world have different weird size pockets, that's fine, But it's not average.

How do you define what "the average pocket size" is?

I have no idea what kind of jeans you or your friends wear - but even my wife who's 5-5" and a size 0 can fit her 4.7" phone in her pocket.

And ultimately - is that the real deciding factor in the phone you buy? Because for me it isn't. Is it a factor - perhaps. But a deciding one? No. I don't think so. I do think it's a "go to" response when talking iPhone vs other phones. Just like the silly comment of someone saying people look ridiculous (or they laugh) at people with 4.6" phones up to their ears because they look like (fill in the blank).

The only real reason Apple hasn't made a larger screen is because of fragmenting their audience/developers. Everything else is rhetoric coming from on stage, marketing and PR.

And if anyone thinks Apple won't eventually "go bigger" - I think they are not thinking it through. Either they will because that's where the market has led to - or they won't because of something like Google Glass and other projects which might shift the industry in another direction.

Ask yourself - why did they go 4" if 3.5" was fine. What's the reason? Obviously they did it to bump up their spec to be more competitive.

 

[sneaky butcher]

I have no idea what kind of jeans you or your friends wear - but even my wife who's 5-5" and a size 0 can fit her 4.7" phone in her pocket.

And ultimately - is that the real deciding factor in the phone you buy? Because for me it isn't. Is it a factor - perhaps. But a deciding one? No. I don't think so. I do think it's a "go to" response when talking iPhone vs other phones. Just like the silly comment of someone saying people look ridiculous (or they laugh) at people with 4.6" phones up to their ears because they look like (fill in the blank).

The only real reason Apple hasn't made a larger screen is because of fragmenting their audience/developers. Everything else is rhetoric coming from on stage, marketing and PR.

And if anyone thinks Apple won't eventually "go bigger" - I think they are not thinking it through. Either they will because that's where the market has led to - or they won't because of something like Google Glass and other projects which might shift the industry in another direction.

Ask yourself - why did they go 4" if 3.5" was fine. What's the reason? Obviously they did it to bump up their spec to be more competitive.

i agreewith most of what you say except i think the main reason apple did not increase screen size before the iphone 5 was to preserve their margins. bigger screen= bigger cost and they already gouge their user base like crazy so they waited.

It might also be apple arrogance in that they just refuse to admit they are wrong and now its been so long people will forget what they said in the past about screen sizes. The rest are so blinded by apple that they just suck up anything they say even if it contradicts what they said earlier. Those people will still swallow the apple marketing like always but even to them it must be tasting a bit funny now.

 

[Tech198]

I see a pattern after all these posts, its the size that matters.


And people reckon size doesn't mater........... (Obviously they haven't seen MacRumors)..

The last thing we'd all want is to carry round a bookcase..... I carry the iPad 3 round with me, in a bag with all my other Apple *crap*... (edit but i would not be carrying with out in the open... Its just too dam big to walk around with...

The iPhone 4s. i would .......... maybe a 4-inch..... but there is obviously a limit to how big is, too big...

umm... maybe not galaxy node..... (which btw, I reckon Apple is working on an equivalent.)

 

[theluggage]

Those who want the best performance/features have to go for the bigger screen because there is no other choice.

...but isn't it sensible for the larger-screen models to have more horsepower? Apart from there simply being more pixels to wrangle, larger screens are more likely to appeal to those who's priorities tend more towards the 'pocket computer that can be used as a phone' end of the market.

The size of the Note 2 opens up possibilities like handwriting/shape recognition, split-screen multitasking and using the desktop versions of websites and webapps, that benefit from the additional processing power. The Mini is more likely to be used for phoning, texting and using mobile-friendly websites. Plus, of course, bigger phones have more space inside for bulkier components and the batteries to power them.

Also, while the Note 2 is more powerful than the SIII, that's partly because it is a newer phone.

Bear in mind that Apple doesn't like having huge, complex ranges of products so if they do go for larger screens they'd be unlikely to offer too many permutations of size and power - if there's a strong correlation between demand for screen size and power then they'll produce models to match.

 

[theluggage]

umm... maybe not galaxy node.....

The attraction of the Note is that it is good for many things that a 7" tablet does, but still fits in most pockets and is small enough to hold up to your ear in the phone.

If you can't fit a note in your pocket then, statistically speaking, you are most likely either female (in which case it can go in your purse) and/or have a spandex fetish (in which case it can go in your utility belt).

 

[jrswizzle]

Umm so if your business was losing any customers you would find this acceptable if you gained new clients? Your still losing millions.

If I gained 2 for every 1 the competition brought in (not even that I lost - that number would be higher) then hell ya.....

I know you people want to believe and see Apple fail - but its just not happening. Oh you'll continue to cream your pants over the latest Android and then feel the need to "share" it with everyone else, but some of us aren't controlled by our mobile devices and are perfectly happy where we are.

Until Apple's customer retention rate drops below 70% (or down to Android's level), I'll hold off on the "apple is doomed" comments.

 

[samcraig]

some of us aren't controlled by our mobile devices

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