i really dont understand, this sony vaio z has an i7, TWO hard drive slots, optical dive, good graphics card, up to 10.6 hour battery life, same battery life as the mbp on the best settings all in a 13 inch laptop, i thought the mbp was sqishing there stuff in but this!
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Apples MacBook Pro: Rotting Core? What Apple Doesn't Want You To Realize.
- Thread starter wikoogle
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Why in the world are we talking about contractual law, the UCC and unconscionability? How does it relate to this topic?
The reason that attorneys get a bad rap is that they like to espouse legal jargon that most don't understand, or care to understand.
Most laypeople don't know what the UCC is, nor do they care. What they care about is how the UCC protects them. The UCC, among other things, protects consumers during and after a sales or contractual transaction. One of the most important ways we are protected is against fraud, and with the use of warranties. The UCC is such a large, complicated document, with a long line of case law dealing with the governing of sales transactions.
Can someone show me case law that is directly on point to how Apple prices it product, and where the court ruled that it was unconscionable? I don't know why this topic even veered off course and started talking about the legalities of a contract.
Lastly, I wish people would stop using the word "monopoly" when discussing Apple and OS X. It only shows they have very litle knowledge of what a monopoly is.
The reason that attorneys get a bad rap is that they like to espouse legal jargon that most don't understand, or care to understand.
Most laypeople don't know what the UCC is, nor do they care. What they care about is how the UCC protects them. The UCC, among other things, protects consumers during and after a sales or contractual transaction. One of the most important ways we are protected is against fraud, and with the use of warranties. The UCC is such a large, complicated document, with a long line of case law dealing with the governing of sales transactions.
Can someone show me case law that is directly on point to how Apple prices it product, and where the court ruled that it was unconscionable? I don't know why this topic even veered off course and started talking about the legalities of a contract.
Lastly, I wish people would stop using the word "monopoly" when discussing Apple and OS X. It only shows they have very litle knowledge of what a monopoly is.
Because its a great conversation!
This has been a passionately debated topic, with lots of points and counter-points, research, challenges, a couple of mea culpas (those were mine - ooops). All because people decided to not dive to the depths of name calling and insults. We're - what? 15?16? pages into this topic, and it's still civil. This is the what good discussion is about. Yeah Us! Wow. That was great, thanks.
Doesn't apply me specifically, 'cause I'm north of 49th parallel (not really, but metaphorically) - though I think all the principals apply still.And I don't think we are still agreement about contracts too. I was just trying to keep the contract discussion very narrowly focussed. In the big picture, I agree that contract law is very complicated and that the law is needed to enforce a basic "fairness".
Because its a great conversation!
I can dig that. But lets not use legal terminology, or legal topics to muddle the conversation.
I'm running a desktop custom Dell quad-core with an older nVidia 8000-series quadro FX video card. I'm looking to get a portable solution, as I do need to take it on the field for previsualization of special FX for feature-film. The film industry is more Mac-centric these days, so I figure that I might as well go-with-the-flow for data exchange ease.
And the Macbook Pros look effing sexy.
I could just as well go with an i7 mobile variant by other PC manufacturers at the mo, but seeing as I'm in the market for a new portable computer and I've been thinking of diving into the Mac realm for a while now, I'd like to see what Apple can offer me on the next MBP release.
The MBP I'm hoping to purchase will be custom and I'm looking to drop quite a bit of coin on it, to keep its longevity as long as possible. This is the reason I am not going for a C2D proc right now.
Hope that sheds some light as to why I'm pushing for Apple to give me the best goods.
Well, just by saying that you haven't provided any real evidence and I could just as easily say that you are "inventing your own history to suit the needs to your debate points."
In fact, I've already posted links (here, here and here) showing that the Arrandale previews done at CES were performed using early engineering prototypes and CES ran between January 7th and 10th. Furthermore, although some manufacturers are now shipping i3/i5 Arrandale systems they seem to be in short supply with online ship dates well into March. It's true, however, that there are usually lag times when ordering direct from the manufacturer (build times, etc.) and some manufacturers are now listing a few Arrandale models as "same day shipping."
As for the 15" HP Envy, the only hands-on reviews I can find on that system from January are for the model that uses the quad-core Clarksfield i7. It's true that HP announced new Arrandale-based versions of the Envy at CES but so did practically every other PC manufacturer (but that doesn't mean that they were shipping products -- see the links above). Also, the only 15" Envys that HP currently shows for same day shipping are the 15-1150NR using the Arrandale i5-430M and the 15-1050NR using the afore mentioned Clarksfield processor. In addition, the 13" Envys are still using Core 2 Duos.
As for the currently shipping Arrandale i5-430M model of the Envy, I can only find websites from early to mid-Feburary (for example, here and here) that announced these as "brand new" models that were currently available for order. In fact, if you perform a search on HP Envy 15-1150NR you will see that almost all links are dated in mid-Feburary (except for the pre-announcements that were made at CES). I think this latter fact would be a little odd if, as you say, the Arrandale-based Envy has been shipping since mid-January.
Furthermore, Amazon still lists this model of the Envy as available for pre-order only ("This item has not yet been released"). Given all of the above, it doesn't sound like the Arrandale model of the Envy has been shipping in quantity for a full two months.
In any case, this all goes back to the original article about the "rotting core" in Apple's MacBook Pros. That article infers that Core i7 and i5 processors that could have been used in the MacBook Pros have been available for six months which is only true if you consider the high-battery-consumption, quad-core Clarksfield Core i7 processor suitable for the MacBook Pro's current form-factor (and in any case, there wasn't even a mobile version of the Core i5 until Arrandale was announced two months ago). Thus, much of the "rotting core" and outdated processor debate that was triggered by that article was completely off base.
If you would like to provide some links that show that the Arrandale-based Envy was shipping before Jan. 15 then I'll grant you your two months. Otherwise, perhaps we can compromise on six-weeks since that would be half-way between each of our claims (although I can find no evidence that it has actually been as long as six weeks and a full two months, as you claim, would take us back to CES and not to the middle of January).
No argument here......but I agree that it is not often 15 pages of a thread go by so civilly.
I'm running a desktop custom Dell quad-core with an older nVidia 8000-series quadro FX video card. I'm looking to get a portable solution, as I do need to take it on the field for previsualization of special FX for feature-film. The film industry is more Mac-centric these days, so I figure that I might as well go-with-the-flow for data exchange ease.
And the Macbook Pros look effing sexy.
I could just as well go with an i7 mobile variant by other PC manufacturers at the mo, but seeing as I'm in the market for a new portable computer and I've been thinking of diving into the Mac realm for a while now, I'd like to see what Apple can offer me on the next MBP release.
The MBP I'm hoping to purchase will be custom and I'm looking to drop quite a bit of coin on it, to keep its longevity as long as possible. This is the reason I am not going for a C2D proc right now.
Hope that sheds some light as to why I'm pushing for Apple to give me the best goods.
Fair enough.
In your shoes, I'd be a bit concerned about maintaining software for multiple OS's, it is a pain, but can be done. I have to have some Windows stuff for work, so no real way to get around it.
I personally suspect that Apple is going to take their time on the next update, if for no other reason, than to get a decent graphics solution. I can't imagine them going for the Intel graphics on the high end. And, from what I've read, there are some challenges with that and some decisions to be made.
As long as you can afford to wait for the update, then it's a matter of patience. My sore spot with a lot of these threads is the incessant whining and claims of malfeasance by Apple. For the huge majority of the market, the current models are fine. For specific needs, then yeah, there's some wait time and some other considerations.
I'd be curious to know what kinds of Mac your peers are using and what their take on the performance is?
I'm not sure how much custom you're looking at. RAM and HDD/SDD upgrades you really do want to look third party...I like OWC myself as a starting point. Other than that, Apple really doesn't offer a lot of custom that I've seen in the mobile line.
I'm running a desktop custom Dell quad-core with an older nVidia 8000-series quadro FX video card. I'm looking to get a portable solution, as I do need to take it on the field for previsualization of special FX for feature-film. The film industry is more Mac-centric these days, so I figure that I might as well go-with-the-flow for data exchange ease.
And the Macbook Pros look effing sexy.
I could just as well go with an i7 mobile variant by other PC manufacturers at the mo, but seeing as I'm in the market for a new portable computer and I've been thinking of diving into the Mac realm for a while now, I'd like to see what Apple can offer me on the next MBP release.
The MBP I'm hoping to purchase will be custom and I'm looking to drop quite a bit of coin on it, to keep its longevity as long as possible. This is the reason I am not going for a C2D proc right now.
Hope that sheds some light as to why I'm pushing for Apple to give me the best goods.
Is there such thing as custom MBP? Apart from RAM and HDD/SDD size what else can you customize?
Is there such thing as custom MBP? Apart from RAM and HDD/SDD size what else can you customize?
Are there more customizable options on the PC side? Are there some options on PC laptops that aren't available on macs? The Apple store gives you some options on CPU speed & GPU as well but that's everything I think.
Laptops are not that customizable in general but yes, you get more options on PC side. Primarily because you start with wider variety of base models. For example, from DELL you get Inspiron (value), Studio (value+some quality), Studio XPS (more quality), Alienware (gaming), Adamo (executive/ultra portable), Mini (netbook), Vostro (business/value), Latitude (business/better quality and performance), Precision and Precision Covet (Portable workstations). This selection covers screen sizes from 10" to 17" (nine screen sizes). CPUs from AMD and Intel, including Atom, ULV, Core, iX. Glossy and matte screens. CCFL, wite LED and RGB LED backlit. Chicklet and conventional keyboards. AMD and NVIDIA graphics. Slick/regular/ragged enclosures.
jpnc said:
Well, I did some additional checking and it appears that the first reports of anyone actually getting one of the Arrandale-based HP Envy laptops occurred on Jan. 29, 2010. There were several reports cluster at that time (a Friday afternoon) and during the following week (that was the first week of February). These were reports that seemed to be coming from all over the U.S. -- from California to New Jersey. These were people who ordered as early as Jan. 7, 2010 (the first day of CES).
This pretty much confirms my earlier statements. It appears that the Arrandale laptops have only been shipping in quantity during the last month (or, one could also say that the Arrandale-based HP Envy has been shipping for five weeks, give or take a day or two since I made my original statement). Here is the link which contains the first reports of people getting their units from HP.
*OFFICIAL: HP Envy 15 2nd Gen Owners Lounge!* on NotebookReview.com
This thread (on Notebook Review) is kind of interesting because it shows that everyone who order in early January received notices from HP starting on about Jan. 18 that their units had been delayed with new delivery dates between 1/29 and 2/1. Another user reported on Jan. 26 that new build dates were then out to Feb. 25.
Durning the interval between the CES announcements and the 1/29 delivery dates there was a lot of speculation on what was holding up the shipments. Those varied from a rumored shortage on the Arrandale processors to some problem in developing the switchable graphics. Interestingly, this thread also reveals that the HP Envys do not support switchable graphics (at least not at this present time). There was also a lot of tooth gnashing with threats to cancel orders (because of the delay).
Such tangents are the result of a well known phenomenon called thread drift. It is as inevitable as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west. Nevertheless, as one of the contributors to all that bafflegab, which may well have been more fun for me than for others, I sincerely hope that I didn't take up too much of anyone's valuable time. In any event, thanks for the use of the hall.
I'd be using Maya for Mac exclusively and the .ma and .mb Maya-format files are interchangeable, regardless of OS (Windows, Linux, Mac). I'm planning on using Parallels to run Windows 7, just in case of any issues.
Yeah, there's the rub for me: I know that I'm going to drop a load of cash on a new, powerful laptop and I've been eyeballing the MBP's for some time now. I do understand that my specific needs require the CPU, GPU and RAM to be maxed-out and the current-crop just doesn't do it for me, so I have to wait. I've worked on an MBP rig with the current hardware (all maxed-out), bought by one of the studios that I was working for and it was alright. However, my work demands are even higher now, so I need something more powerful. Actually, that experience with the MBP on-set was such a nice one that it really nudged me into buying one now.
Sorry, by "custom" I meant "not off the shelf at Best Buy" and customizing it from the Apple online store. So, from what you're saying, I can upgrade the HDD and RAM myself? I thought that, at least for the RAM, it was a bit iffy to purchase 3rd-party chips (warranty issues and compatibility issues)? Can you recommend a retailer with better prices than Apple and a good quality-reputation?
Thanks for the input.
OWC (macsales.com) is where I generally buy my RAM and I've been very pleased.
HDD/RAM upgrades are easy. 10 screws in the bottom of the laptop (get a set of precision screwdrivers), pull off the bottom and it's right there.
I've had 2 different MBP's in for warranty work and neither time did anyone bat an eyelash at my upgrades. When I asked the tech, his reply was that it was not a problem.
Like he said.
I have bought hard drives and memory from OWC from a number of years and have found them to be both efficient and reliable. I did have one problem with Apple over a RAM upgrade, however. I added higher capacity third party RAM modules to my Powerbook G4. When I took it into the Apple Store to have the connection between the video card and the display replaced, though, the repair center, for no good reason, removed my RAM chips and reimaged my drive, thereby causing me to lose both my data and my configuration settings. I was not a happy camper because they really should have left both the memory modules and the hard drive alone as neither had played any part in necessitating the repair I had made. Ever since, I have carefully retained my original memory and put it in the memory slots before I have taken in my computers for repair. I have also instructed the Apple Store techs to make a note on the repair order that I didn't want the drive reimaged. So far, it has worked, as the repair center has not reimaged a hard drive since.
Haven't seen anything more about this lately (from you). May we conclude then that the timeline dispute has been resolved to your satisfaction? [in addition (as my previous reply also went unanswered) i guess you're not actually interested in purchasing any Core i5/7 machines with only Intel's integrated GPU either... right? But, it seems odd then that you are willing to "use" such inferior items simply to argue your point.]
Apple is not (yet) so far behind the curve to the extent being purported. It seems heightened emotion has led to over-exaggerated claims. [tomorrow is Tuesday, FWIW.
Get ready for the flood.]
Haven't seen anything more about this lately (from you). May we conclude then that the timeline dispute has been resolved to your satisfaction? [in addition (as my previous reply also went unanswered) i guess you're not actually interested in purchasing any Core i5/7 machines with only Intel's integrated GPU either... right? But, it seems odd then that you are willing to "use" such inferior items simply to argue your point.]
Apple is not (yet) so far behind the curve to the extent being purported. It seems heightened emotion has led to over-exaggerated claims. [tomorrow is Tuesday, FWIW.
nope, just gave up when sources of information were links to people's own previous posts...I'd rather not get into debates that use that circular logic
Plus, a lot of you seem to care a bit too much...as if this thread has any bearing on anything. My time is too expensive for me to reply to exhaustive posts requiring me to link information from sites two months ago. and yes, if Apple releases a 13" i5 tomorrow with solely the intel graphics on the chip, and the cost is representative of that (i.e. definitely not more than the current versions), then yes, I'll be buying one. I use my mac for work, not for games, and the on board chip is more than capable of handling a 12x8 screen for my purposes. But I do a lot of compiling, and I could use the extra cpu threads. That coupled with a nice Intel SSD, and I'll be happy as a pig in mud.
It's the "Switchers" that are losing
In the past few years, Apple has made a big point of recruiting "Switchers" to the Apple platform. Although I'd used both platforms for years, I "officially" switched to Mac about three years ago, and have loved every minute of it.
Today, however, my three-year-old Macbook is physically worn, tattered and badly in need of repair... but the chances of me putting down two grand to buy one pretty much just like it (Still the same basic processor, just a tiny bit faster and a little sleeker looking) are just about nil. I love my Macbook, but if it dies before the new MBPs come out (and I can smell it dying now), I really don't know what I'll do -- probably buy a cheap Windows 7 laptop to get me by, and reinstall all my old Win software (It's all still valid).
I hate the thought of it, but economically, it just makes sense NOT to remain "switched" right now. Apple better hurry up and wow us again.
In the past few years, Apple has made a big point of recruiting "Switchers" to the Apple platform. Although I'd used both platforms for years, I "officially" switched to Mac about three years ago, and have loved every minute of it.
Today, however, my three-year-old Macbook is physically worn, tattered and badly in need of repair... but the chances of me putting down two grand to buy one pretty much just like it (Still the same basic processor, just a tiny bit faster and a little sleeker looking) are just about nil. I love my Macbook, but if it dies before the new MBPs come out (and I can smell it dying now), I really don't know what I'll do -- probably buy a cheap Windows 7 laptop to get me by, and reinstall all my old Win software (It's all still valid).
I hate the thought of it, but economically, it just makes sense NOT to remain "switched" right now. Apple better hurry up and wow us again.
Here's some help: *OFFICIAL: HP Envy 15 2nd Gen Owners Lounge!*nope, just gave up when sources of information were links to people's own previous posts...I'd rather not get into debates that use that circular logic
Yes, it's a long thread. But the link is to a single page where you will find the first report of someone actually receiving an Arrandale-based HP Envy (from user sleey0 on 1/29). The long thread before that time contains reports of people ordering the Envy, discussions about the specs, and gripes about HP delaying their shipments until the very end of January.