Apple’s MacBook Pro: Rotting Core? What Apple Doesn't Want You To Realize.

[mrCide]

I'm only on page 12 but wanted to reply.

Anyone in the industry who's picked up a late model Dell Latitude, for example, knows what a piece of **** it is. At my company all we use is Dell and I've seen them go downhill with each product update they do. Anything from misaligned screens to cracking plastic parts (we're talking about just by opening the thing).

Sure, the innards are the same hardware, but the quality of it is just garbage. A year ago prices were competitive (MBP 17" was only a little more than a comparable Dell with a lot better perks) though they're not so much now, I agree.

But you just simply cannot compare a crappy Dell to a Macbook Pro, not even a little bit. Dell has become the emachines/walmart of the computer industry, and while their products definitely get the job done, you DO get what you pay for.

Apple doesn't need to drop the price on their line, so they don't. It's why they're so successful in a world where PC/Windows dominates exceedingly.

 

[zipa]

If they tell people that the new MBPs are coming out in two weeks, who in their right mind would buy one of the current models?

The same people who buy them now? I.e. those who don't do research before buying something.

 

[jba256]

It's pretty slick marketing on Intel's part, really, because they really don't put forth a lot of effort to keep people from confusing desktop i7s and laptop i7s...

Yar, i was thinking the same thing. Intel should give their marketing people a raise.

 

[orangeturtle13]

I'm in the market for a 13" laptop (it needs to be portable) capable of running some games (like Portal, HL2, Fallout, etc.) at decent FPS (~30), and capable of processing some music/ HD video. I would Really, Really like to get a MBP, however current models are, at best, laughable.

still impressive on current MBP - Battery, OS, build quality

just decent on current MBP - RAM, screen

unacceptable for a 'Pro' laptop with a heavy premium price;
Graphics Card - Grossly Outdated, I would at least like about (512mb-1gb) to run my video hungry apps and games decently.
Processor - their current processors are not at all acceptable for a pro level machine. I expect a premium machine should have the latest and greatest inside (Who would a buy a Porsche with a Toyota engine replacing the boxer engine?)
Hard Drive - a 500 gb @ 5400 RPM? Search and load times must be wunderbar
too bad I hear Apple uses sub par SSDs

I have been waiting for an update for 3 months now, and have held off buying a premium laptop to replace my desktop for 2 years. I refuse to bite into Apples currently rotten core. If a new fresh Apple doesn't fall from the tree before May (as I will be leaving to Japan for a while around that time), I see myself buying a Sony Vaio instead.

All of my previous ramblings lead to one simple question I wish to pose. Where is the costumer value in Apples current MBP line up?

 

[lilo777]

I'm only on page 12 but wanted to reply.

Anyone in the industry who's picked up a late model Dell Latitude, for example, knows what a piece of **** it is. At my company all we use is Dell and I've seen them go downhill with each product update they do. Anything from misaligned screens to cracking plastic parts (we're talking about just by opening the thing).

Sure, the innards are the same hardware, but the quality of it is just garbage. A year ago prices were competitive (MBP 17" was only a little more than a comparable Dell with a lot better perks) though they're not so much now, I agree.

But you just simply cannot compare a crappy Dell to a Macbook Pro, not even a little bit. Dell has become the emachines/walmart of the computer industry, and while their products definitely get the job done, you DO get what you pay for.

Apple doesn't need to drop the price on their line, so they don't. It's why they're so successful in a world where PC/Windows dominates exceedingly.

It would help if you specified which DELL models you were talking about. Unlike Apple, DELL produces more than one model and the quality and price differ significantly from model to model.

 

[6-0 Prolene]

I'm in the market for a 13" laptop (it needs to be portable) capable of running some games (like Portal, HL2, Fallout, etc.) at decent FPS (~30), and capable of processing some music/ HD video. I would Really, Really like to get a MBP, however current models are, at best, laughable.

still impressive on current MBP - Battery, OS, build quality

just decent on current MBP - RAM, screen

unacceptable for a 'Pro' laptop with a heavy premium price;
Graphics Card - Grossly Outdated, I would at least like about (512mb-1gb) to run my video hungry apps and games decently.
Processor - their current processors are not at all acceptable for a pro level machine. I expect a premium machine should have the latest and greatest inside (Who would a buy a Porsche with a Toyota engine replacing the boxer engine?)
Hard Drive - a 500 gb @ 5400 RPM? Search and load times must be wunderbar
too bad I hear Apple uses sub par SSDs

I have been waiting for an update for 3 months now, and have held off buying a premium laptop to replace my desktop for 2 years. I refuse to bite into Apples currently rotten core. If a new fresh Apple doesn't fall from the tree before May (as I will be leaving to Japan for a while around that time), I see myself buying a Sony Vaio instead.

All of my previous ramblings lead to one simple question I wish to pose. Where is the costumer value in Apples current MBP line up?

Slow day working at Sony today?

 

[Bitmap Frog]

I agree, nowadays the difference between macbook 13" and macbook pro 13" is only aluminum casing. Well, some reviews online stated better screen on the pro, but thats it. The entry level MBP even has less HDD space than MB white.

Back to the topic. I wouldn't compare Windows vs Mac OSX. But.. would you even look at the price of that thing? Sony Z that is? SonyStyle USA is selling them starting from $1800.

See that's another thing that irks me: Apple doesn't have the necessity to penny-pinch like Dell or HP with their razor thin margins, Cupertino could easily afford to put 500 gigers on all their laptops. But nooo they gimp their lineup in order to upsell you.

Apple's out-of-control greed has become repulsive.

 

[Hal Itosis]

It's pretty slick marketing on Intel's part, really, because they really don't put forth a lot of effort to keep people from confusing desktop i7s and laptop i7s...

Yar, i was thinking the same thing. Intel should give their marketing people a raise.

Their blog about the new names had to dissipate a little heat (in the form of reader comments):

Intel's New Brand Structure Explained

[i saw one or two good suggestions somewhere in those comments when i first read it, but (there are so many) i can't find/remember which ones i liked.]

 

[dukebound85]

Do you think they sit around not updating things just to annoy a few forum users?

sometimes lol

 

[Gomff]

I'm only on page 12 but wanted to reply.

Anyone in the industry who's picked up a late model Dell Latitude, for example, knows what a piece of **** it is. At my company all we use is Dell and I've seen them go downhill with each product update they do. Anything from misaligned screens to cracking plastic parts (we're talking about just by opening the thing).

Sure, the innards are the same hardware, but the quality of it is just garbage. A year ago prices were competitive (MBP 17" was only a little more than a comparable Dell with a lot better perks) though they're not so much now, I agree.

But you just simply cannot compare a crappy Dell to a Macbook Pro, not even a little bit. Dell has become the emachines/walmart of the computer industry, and while their products definitely get the job done, you DO get what you pay for.

Apple doesn't need to drop the price on their line, so they don't. It's why they're so successful in a world where PC/Windows dominates exceedingly.

Just to save you a bit of time:

1) Most Mac / OSX folks will "get" your comments immediately and agree.

2) Most PC / Windows people will stomp their feet and tell you why you're wrong, basing their argument on technical specifications. They will say something like "But I can get xxxxx from YYY for $ZZZ, whilst probably shoehorning a car analogy in there too, just for good measure.

 

[wikoogle]

Just to save you a bit of time:

1) Most Mac / OSX folks will "get" your comments immediately and agree.

2) Most PC / Windows people will stomp their feet and tell you why you're wrong, basing their argument on technical specifications. They will say something like "But I can get xxxxx from YYY for $ZZZ, whilst probably shoehorning a car analogy in there too, just for good measure.

What exactly is wrong with 2)?

You're basically saying Mac users have no problem getting ripped off and that's exactly how all customers should feel, as long it means that Apple can report another billion dollars in profit next month, where as PC users actually want to get their money's worth.

As a customer we have every right to complain and criticize Apple if we're getting gouged on prices.

A 500gb 7200 rpm HDD from newegg costed me $60 total. A 4GB stick of ram only costs me around $20. There is absolutely no reason why Apple continues to put 250gb 5400rpm harddrives and 2GBs of ram in their $1200 laptops, except to rip their customers off.

You're basically saying that Mac users care more about Apple's annual profits than about whether they're getting their money's worth.

From the customer's perspective, they have every right to feel like they're getting price gouged and ripped off.

 

[Bill Gates]

So you're saying Mac users have no problem getting ripped off, if it means that Apple can report another billion dollars in profit next month, where as PC users actually want to get their money's worth.

A 500gb 7200 rpm HDD from newegg costed me $60 total. A 4GB stick of ram only costs me around $20. There is absolutely no reason why Apple continues to put 250gb 5400rpm harddrives and 2GBs of ram in their $1200 laptops, except to rip their customers off.

From the customer's perspective, they have every right to feel like they're getting price gouged and ripped off.

You're basically saying that Mac users care more about Apple's annual profits than about whether they're getting their money's worth.

I don't want to get off on a tangent but you ought to understand that there is more to the price of a computer than the sum total of its parts. People are willing to pay what Apple demands and that drives the pricing. Unless that changes it doesn't make sense to Apple's bottom line to offer bigger hard drives.

 

[wikoogle]

And it makes even less sense for you as a customer to sit there and take it without complaining, as Apple charges $200 for a part that costs you less than $50 to purchase from newegg on your own.

And then if you opt to upgrade it on your own later, to have Apple tell you you voided your warranty by doing a simple hdd or ram swap.

As a customer you have the right to complain if you feel like you're getting an unfair deal.

You're basically arguing that customers should just shut up and take whatever Apple gives them without batting an eyelash.

 

[Gomff]

So you're saying Mac users have no problem getting ripped off, if it means that Apple can report another billion dollars in profit next month, where as PC users actually want to get their money's worth.

A 500gb 7200 rpm HDD from newegg costed me $60 total. There is absolutely no reason why Apple continues to put 250gb 5400rpm harddrives in their $1200 laptops, except to rip people off.

You're basically saying that Mac users care more about Apple's annual profits than about whether they're getting their money's worth.

Hi Wikoogle

Firstly, thank you for playing, and for illustrating my point so well. Your comments about hard drives show perfectly the PC / Windows myopia that value is only to be found in the components of a machine.

Secondly, you're putting words in my mouth. Unless you can find somewhere that I've written that I "don't mind being ripped off" or that I "care more about Apple's annual profits than whether I'm getting my money's worth", please stop...It's childish, ill informed and well, just plain wrong.

 

[SA22C]

So you're saying Mac users have no problem getting ripped off, if it means that Apple can report another billion dollars in profit next month, where as PC users actually want to get their money's worth.

I'm not going to argue that the current lineup is stale (it is) but I had no problem paying a premium for a quality portable that runs an excellent OS.

A 500gb 7200 rpm HDD from newegg costed me $60 total. A 4GB stick of ram only costs me around $20. There is absolutely no reason why Apple continues to put 250gb 5400rpm harddrives and 2GBs of ram in their $1200 laptops, except to rip their customers off.

Well, there is the power consumption issue. Given that Apple is emphasizing battery life, I can see why they went with slower drives. I'm with you on the RAM though. Apple has always used the RAM upgrade to soak customers for excessive $$

From the customer's perspective, they have every right to feel like they're getting price gouged and ripped off.

You're basically saying that Mac users care more about Apple's annual profits than about whether they're getting their money's worth.

Again, I think that there is a general perception that some price premium is acceptable, given the excellent workmanship of the Macbook Pro line and the outstanding quality of the OS X ecosystem. I certainly have no problem paying extra for quality of workmanship, design and functionality. Raw tech specs don't tell the whole story. It would be nice if Apple did mid-stream upgrades like the other major vendors, but I'm not going to get up in arms about it.

As a side note, I also support the Dell Latitude series of notebooks at my day job and the E-series feels far flimsier than the D-series it replaced. The screens and batteries are far superior, however.

 

[gwsat]

Just to save you a bit of time:

1) Most Mac / OSX folks will "get" your comments immediately and agree.

2) Most PC / Windows people will stomp their feet and tell you why you're wrong, basing their argument on technical specifications. They will say something like "But I can get xxxxx from YYY for $ZZZ, whilst probably shoehorning a car analogy in there too, just for good measure.

I agree. To those of us in the Mac camp we pay Apple's prices because we think Apple gives us good value for our money and realize that you really do get what you pay for. To the PC crowd, though, we are credulous lemmings who are getting "ripped off," which gives rise to the question, why do those PC loving, Mac hating, folks post here in the first place? If we're satisfied why can't they simply leave us alone -- never mind.

 

[6-0 Prolene]

What exactly is wrong with 2)?

You're basically saying Mac users have no problem getting ripped off and that's exactly how all customers should feel, as long it means that Apple can report another billion dollars in profit next month, where as PC users actually want to get their money's worth.

As a customer we have every right to complain and criticize Apple if we're getting gouged on prices.

A 500gb 7200 rpm HDD from newegg costed me $60 total. A 4GB stick of ram only costs me around $20. There is absolutely no reason why Apple continues to put 250gb 5400rpm harddrives and 2GBs of ram in their $1200 laptops, except to rip their customers off.

You're basically saying that Mac users care more about Apple's annual profits than about whether they're getting their money's worth.

From the customer's perspective, they have every right to feel like they're getting price gouged and ripped off.

If Apple asks a certain amount for a computer and I feel it's worth it, I'll buy it. Doesn't mean I got ripped off.

 

[Bill Gates]

And it makes even less sense for you as a customer to sit there and take it, as Apple charges $200 for a part that costs you less than $50 to purchase from newegg.

And then if you opt to upgrade it on your own later, to have Apple tell you you voided your warranty by doing a simple hdd or ram swap.

As a customer you have the right to complain if you feel like you're getting an unfair deal.

You're basically arguing that customers should just shut up and take whatever Apple gives them without batting an eyelash.

Most customers don't care what they can get the part for elsewhere. Most customers will buy a computer with a given configuration and have it remain so for its life, or at most upgrade the memory. You can complain all you want but individual customers don't have the market power to drive Apple's decisions. The market as a whole needs to form a consensus for Apple to change, and one of the driving factors behind that is what Apple's competitors offer for the same dollar. Apple happens to have a monopolistic hold on its products since it is the only company that offers Macs, but it still eventually succumbs to market forces. If sales figures tell us anything it's that the majority of Apple's customers are content with the current lineup. MacBook Pros aren't geared towards professionals alone unfortunately.

 

[wikoogle]

Unless you can find somewhere that I've written that I "don't mind being ripped off" or that I "care more about Apple's annual profits than whether I'm getting my money's worth", please stop...It's childish, ill informed and well, just plain wrong.

The fact that you describe, a customer expressing their dissatisfaction, as "myopia" tells me exactly how you feel.

No you never wrote, I don't mind being ripped off.

But you did write that customers who are being ripped off are being myopic if they complain about it.

I'm just pointing out that such a stance is hypocritical.

 

[SA22C]

Since when did Apple void warranties for RAM/Hard drive upgrades? The procedure is described in the manual, FFS! I'm all for discussion, but lets stick to the facts, eh?

 

[wikoogle]

What I dislike is some of the posters here telling people who are dissatisfied with the prices Apple is charging them, that they're being silly or that they are myopic, or that they don't have the right to complain.

As customers people have every right to complain if they feel that they're getting ripped off. Calling them myopic or attacking them for it is idiotic, and yet happens all too often happen here.

Well, there is the power consumption issue. Given that Apple is emphasizing battery life, I can see why they went with slower drives.

What power consumption issue?

I purchased the 500GB 7200rpm Hitachi Travelstar. I picked it up for $60 a few weeks ago via slickdeals.

It's the same exact drive that everyone recommends using in the MBPs. It's whisper quite and uses very little power. And I believe it's the exact same drive that Apple charges $300 to upgrade to. If retail customers can pick one up for a fifth of that price, then you would have to be silly to think that it costs them more than $40 per drive for Apple when bought in bulk and in large quanties directly from the manufacturer.

Some mark up is understandable. But customers do have the right to complain when the markup so grossly and significantly exceeds what they can purchase it for from other retailers.

 

[Eidorian]

It's fun until everyone else ruins it for you.

 

[Gomff]

The fact that you describe, a customer expressing their dissatisfaction, as "myopia" tells me exactly how you feel.

No you never wrote, I don't mind being ripped off.

But you did write that customers who are being ripped off are being myopic if they complain about it.

I'm just pointing out that such a stance is hypocritical.

Wrong again I'm afraid.....Ah dear, where to start?

When I buy a system, the things that matter to me are whether it will perform the tasks I need it to, run my software (which I have chosen to buy because it's the best around for me or that I can afford) and will provide a stable environment for me to work in. I'm equally concerned about build quality, support if there's a fault in software or hardware, battery life and connectivity.

In essence what I'm saying here, is that the price of the hard drive is pretty low on my list of priorities. You might say that I'd consider it myopic (can you see what I did there?) to be obsessed about such a thing when there are so many other more important factors that inform my decision making.

But please, don't let a little thing like a rational argument get in the way of your myopia (there it is again) and feel free to hit me with some car analogies.

 

[wikoogle]

Wrong again I'm afraid.....Ah dear, where to start?

When I buy a system, the things that matter to me are whether it will perform the tasks I need it to, run my software (which I have chosen to buy because it's the best around for me or that I can afford) and will provide a stable environment for me to work in. I'm equally concerned about build quality, support if there's a fault in software or hardware, battery life and connectivity.

In essence what I'm saying here, is that the price of the hard drive is pretty low on my list of priorities. You might say that I'd consider it myopic (can you see what I did there?) to be obsessed about such a thing when there are so many other more important factors that inform my decision making.

But please, don't let a little thing like a rational argument get in the way of your myopia (there it is again) and feel free to hit me with some car analogies.

And yet again, you state that you consider anyone that is unsatisfied with Apple's prices as myopic and silly.

Seems pretty childish and irrational to me, to assume that every one has to value exactly the same things that you value, and to attack anyone who thinks differently or values different things.

But whatever floats your boat.

 

[orangeturtle13]

Slow day working at Sony today?

I strongly dislike Sony actually, with all of their ridiculous propriety formats and bloated Sony tax (not unlike the Apple tax.) I try to stay away from Sony TV's, cameras, even the PS3. People I know who have had Sony notebooks also tell me they were wastes of money. The only Sony electronics I own, now that I come to think of it, are my PS2 and Walkman. If I had no qualms shopping Sony, I would have bought a Vaio by now. For now, I'm still hoping Apple will inject some of its 'magic' into it 13" MBP.

I'm just not indoctrinated by the church of apple, as you sir appear to be.