You really don't know many car buyers. I'm not saying it's true of all car buyers, but there certainly are a percentage who will just go buy a Honda because their friends own them and like them. Having had a friend who sold cars and hearing some of his stories, they're very much out there.
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Apples MacBook Pro: Rotting Core? What Apple Doesn't Want You To Realize.
- Thread starter wikoogle
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You really don't know many car buyers. I'm not saying it's true of all car buyers, but there certainly are a percentage who will just go buy a Honda because their friends own them and like them. Having had a friend who sold cars and hearing some of his stories, they're very much out there.
but why you want the wrx as opposed to the base imprezza? because of the specs right?
nope, the wrx is seen as the sporty car, and imprezza is more old people/luxury. i want fast!
but why you want the wrx as opposed to the base imprezza? because of the specs right?
You don't need to know the specs to know that the WRX is popular with a certain crowd.
Let's see, I'm going to throw myself into the techie group. Professionally, I'm Unix admin/engineer and computers is how I make my living.
My office server is a one of the newer mini's. With 6 TB of HD space attached via FW. It runs 3 VM's in fusion constantly (Solaris, Linux, XP) and right now is running a 4th. It serves as a NFS server for my media. It's my backup mail server, it's a web server, FTP server, VPN server (2 instances), DHCP and DNS for my internal network, Samba server, bit torrent client, fax machine when I need a fax, AFP server, Plex media server, development platform (with a decent and regular amount of compiling), and so on.
All that, on Apple's lowest end system. And it handles the load pretty durned well, especially considering my 20/20 fios means I get decent up and download speeds. So it's not like I have something bottle-necking my server functions....oh, and internally, I'm all GigE, with pretty decent SMB class routers and switches. Not that consumer-grade crap that can't keep up with GigE.
I might argue that I'm probably making more use of that mini than most do. And I'm not going to mention the other 2 mini's (previous model) running 3-4 VM's each (lab environment).
Oh, and those VM's...they're all pretty much servers too. NFS, Jumpstart/Kickstart for the main, and they are used frequently. In fact, with the virtualization, I've replaced 3 physical machines with the one mini...and that process started with the PowerPC 1.5 mini I started out with.
Considering that I'm doing all this and running about 2-10% CPU usage on average and a load average < 1, I'd love for one of you "experts" to explain how an i5 or i7 is going to just rock my world with how much faster it is.
Actually, the SSD I have sitting in my MBP has done far more for the "speed" of my computing experience than any of the last few rounds of CPU upgrades. After that, upgraded RAM capacity is next on my list, and I think it's spiffy that I can toss 8 gb in the mini's and the MBP. And third on the list would be the better network equipment.
About the only thing I'd care about next might be having even more ram for more VM's, and more cores for the same reason.
I've also put three people on the low-end MB's and all three are very satisfied with the performance of those machines.
I'm left to wonder how many of you folks griping about the specs know anything about actually putting a box to work...
Excellent post. I hope this puts an end to this redundant thread. I believe that you have specs happy people who come here just to bash Apple. There will be another thread like this, under a different title, with the same players, repeating the same garbage.
I wonder why the moderators don't stop these kinda threads, or just merge them into one thread. Maybe because they get a lot of traffic, and that's always good for a forum.
Mostly what I see is people complaining about the cost of relatively old components. Apple is marketing systems that supposedly have the latest and greatest. They don't. Yet they seem to think their pricing is justified. It isn't.
I also see many posts saying the current gen MBPs are more than enough power for the majority of users. They are.
Given the above, I don't get all these snide and flippant comments.
There are people that use machines, and there are people that squeeze machines. I'm in the latter group, and I absolutely need more power. I needed it yesterday.
But I do more than just run a bunch of daemons across several VMs.
Be arrogant and condescending if you like, but people don't deserve to be taken advantage of just because they have a career in something other than IT.
It's ridiculous for Apple to charge what they do for the current lineup, and yet the alternatives are Windows (for average users) or some flavor of unadulterated Unix/Linux (usually for those of us in the industry who appreciate the elegance and can even squeeze enterprise hardware to the hilt).
I also see many posts saying the current gen MBPs are more than enough power for the majority of users. They are.
Given the above, I don't get all these snide and flippant comments.
There are people that use machines, and there are people that squeeze machines. I'm in the latter group, and I absolutely need more power. I needed it yesterday.
But I do more than just run a bunch of daemons across several VMs.
Be arrogant and condescending if you like, but people don't deserve to be taken advantage of just because they have a career in something other than IT.
It's ridiculous for Apple to charge what they do for the current lineup, and yet the alternatives are Windows (for average users) or some flavor of unadulterated Unix/Linux (usually for those of us in the industry who appreciate the elegance and can even squeeze enterprise hardware to the hilt).
Are there "Apple needs to upgrade their MacBook Pro line of notebooks or I am buying a PC" threads on the professional photography forums that garner the intense interest that they do here?
Then guess what? Buy a Windows-based PC. That's not so hard is it. Or do you and everyone hear just love to bitch and complain. If you don't like the outdated hardware, why come here and complain? Do you think that you are going to change anyone's mind on this forum?
If Apple took your stance, they would be making a HUGE mistake. In a technology-centric industry, one MUST keep up with latest technology to stay competitive. Catering to the lowest-common-denominator of users is NO WAY to stay competitive. With the mind-set of "only 15% of possible customers will know about new technology, anyway" is business suicide. Dell, HP, Lenovo, et al are vying for the business of these people and are updating their lineup to keep up with their demand. Automatically assuming that your customer-base is ignorant of current tech when you're a TECH COMPANY is idiocy and so is your point.
And as for artists not having time to keep knowledgable on current tech: you're again an idiot for generalizing. I am a 3D artist and have been for about 15 years and I keep up with tech. The other artists I work with are also very, very in-tune with tech. Photographers that I've been working with are also very up-to-date with computer tech as well as camera technology.
Stop making excuses for Apple not staying with current technological trends. Your Fanboy is showing.
Yeah.. but you could load the VM's onto a 'nix OS, and it would have cost you about 2/5 as much. I won't deny that having a mac mini looks nicer than a mini tower, but not $600 nicer.
Indeed, Apple is becoming a consumer product. What a shame. It's pathetic what's going on. No upgrades, no quad powered MacBooks. Even the MacPro's didn't see an upgrade since one year and the quadro Cards are gone from the shop. I wish the pro line would adopt the GPU power from Nvidea more. Tesla is really powerful.
You'd have to pay more for a windows machine than a MBP to get them to preform the same. Windows machines are so polluted with inane software running all the time I finally threw in the towel and got a machine I could get some work done with. It will kick the crap out of the similarly spec'd windows machine. Really its apples and oranges. You don't have to be a big tech guy to understand the two machines work differently. Windows runs everything all the time OSX doesn't giving more power to the task at hand. If Apple started throwing in the tv tuner and radio and all the frills crap i think alot of people would find ways to get it out. Its available now as options if you want it get it, i personally don't want a tv tuner in my machine eating away at my memory & Cpu. Don't care if it comes in one color or a hundred, does it work the way its suppose to and i need it to. I'll stop now.
If it helps I just got a MBP and use it to capture Video and Edit with Final Cut Pro. Works Great. Only a 15" screen but does the job.
I don't think you've ever used a PCIe x1 ATSC tuner and Windows Media Center.
Otherwise the lack of a feature as a feature is played far too often.
I really don't see how what i said was fanboyish.
I generally don't get off to the annoying things that Apple does, but I do admire how well those annoying things end up working for them. That's all i was trying to point out.
Also, this has been pointed out exhaustively by myself, as well as others on here, but I never said all artists weren't techies. What I was trying to make clear is that a good portion of them aren't. A lot of professionals just want something that meets their needs and is reliable, and that's what Apple does their best to market.
And that's the other thing. Apple doesnt market themselves as a tech company. They like to think of themselves as a solutions company. That's why they hardly focus on specs in their ads. They focus on what they think people will want to see themselves doing.
This logic is flawed.
How is it a bad deal financially? Compared to what? A PC laptop with more recent hardware in? If so, then this isn't an even comparison because the other machine Is not a Mac.
A Mac is:
1) Well designed and built to last
2) Power efficient
3) Equipped with Snow Leopard
4) Comes with some pretty decent software to get you started (iLife etc)
5) Backed up with top drawer technical support for both hardware and software.
None of these things have anything to do with featuring the latest hardware but are all exclusive to the experience of buying a mac.
A PC is:
1) Possibly well designed, but possibly also just plastic crud
2) Not power efficient if it's using the i7 and discrete graphics
3) Comes with Windows, for better or worse
4) At best comes with trial-ware, at worst comes with crap-ware.
5) Technical support is a lottery but chances are you'll end up talking to someone on another continent for whom English is a 2nd language.
I'd hate to have to go back to Windows again.
HA HA HA.... i laugh because its true. If i could get all that time back i spent cleaning crap out of peoples Windows machines I could have had a nice vacation. Hardware while important isn't everything, reliability is. I started using my iMac a year ago and my PC is now off pretty much full time. They have almost identical spec's except for the video card that still doesn't work as well as the Mac's.
It's really simple. Instead of 3 VMs with e-mail applications just try to run one modern game or photoshop or video-editing software. Nobody is arguing that everyone needs the latest CPU but many people do. And SSD has nothing to do with it. You can get one with current Mac models, so what do you do to improve performance further?
Let's see...
So with PC you can buy a cheaper model or a more expensive one (like Sony VAIO Z with Carbon Fiber enclosure or HP EliteBook with magnesium alloy enclosure) which will be built better than MacBook. You have a choice which according to you is a bad thing.
Again, with PC you can buy a laptop with a wide range of CPUs, from Atom or ULV Core processor to i7. With battery life ranging from 2 hours to 14 hours.
Poor PC users. They have to struggle with choices.
Or many flavors of Linux, or Android.
It comes with what you want it to come. You can buy it with trial versions or without from (Microsoft Store), from tons of independent builders (all business models too).
Again, you have a choice. If you buy business laptop from DELL or HP, you get next day service on site which is much better than Apple Care.
So with PC you can buy a cheaper model or a more expensive one (like Sony VAIO Z with Carbon Fiber enclosure or HP EliteBook with magnesium alloy enclosure) which will be built better than MacBook. You have a choice which according to you is a bad thing.
Again, with PC you can buy a laptop with a wide range of CPUs, from Atom or ULV Core processor to i7. With battery life ranging from 2 hours to 14 hours.
Poor PC users. They have to struggle with choices.
Or many flavors of Linux, or Android.
It comes with what you want it to come. You can buy it with trial versions or without from (Microsoft Store), from tons of independent builders (all business models too).
Again, you have a choice. If you buy business laptop from DELL or HP, you get next day service on site which is much better than Apple Care.
I must apologize to you about my ill-worded reply. It just irks me when customers (or potential customers) of any product seemingly give excuses to a company for not providing them with what they want, especially at prices that are not reflective of current offerrings. If these customers actually do want dated technology, then that's a different story. But there is a bona-fide demand for the latest tech here, so there is no excuse for a company to not provide it, unless said company does not want their business.
Yes, I agree, but the product-line in discussion is not just an iPod Nano: it's the Macbook Pro -- a product touted to be made for professionals. And professionals who are needing the fastest processors, the fastest graphics, the fastest everything are not being satisfied as of now. And, the fact is, these people are absolutely willing to pay the premium to attain this kind of technology. These professionals are typically artists (as a regular office-worker will not need this caliber of tech) and time is money when it comes to business, so they need fast machines.
If consumers do not push product-providers to give them what they want, there are always other options. But is it really too much for a customer to engage a company and expect them to provide these goods? I really don't think so.
So, it's the duty of those who want more to ask for more. Again, in the end, there are other options, but it sure as hell doesn't hurt to ask.
EDIT: just to add one more thing: it actually makes a company BETTER to have its core followers push it to create better things. If you're a real proponent of a certain brand or product, don't give excuses for them to not give you or other people bigger, better things. If we allow companies to remain stagnant, not only do we lose, but the company loses, too.
Except that the energy profile of the mini is excellent, I get the advantages of OS X, which interface I prefer...and really, by the time one builds their down, which I would do, and run Solaris, it's the same $$$. I priced it out before I went that way.
Of the various *nixes, Linux and the BSD's come after Solaris and OS X for my preferences. So, to run my other OS of choice, I've got to deal with an improving, but limited HCL.
Let's see, I routinely encode video on that same server too...what's your point, that it'll take a little less longer? Fire it off and go do something else...and my server still performs the other functions.
Gaming? Yeah, Warcraft does put a nice CPU load on, I won't deny that. Then again, I also used to run a WoW emulator (and it's attendant MySQL DB) and play WoW on the previous model.
Could you point me to where Apple is misleading folks on the innards of their systems?
Maybe you could point me to the text on the Apple Store web page where the claims of "latest and greatest" are?
The specifications of the systems are clearly displayed. If you don't like the price, go somewhere else. What's annoying as all get-out and why I'm (I can't speak for anyone else), prone to try to bash a little sense into some of these threads, is people claiming fraud, deceit, rip-off and so on.
If you feel the pricing isn't justified, go do something else, but for the love of Pete, stop whining about it. People will pay for what they perceive as value. Some people see value in Apple's offerings, others do not.