Apple Said to Be Removing Headphone Jack From Upcoming 2018 iPad Pro Models

[aevan]

I wish Apple would remove Bluetooth on their devices as well. The technology has proven more or less stagnant. The transmission rate is still too limiting - and without Bluetooth, the devices could be thinner or have more battery capacity. If you want the old Bluetooth technology, just connect a Lightning - Bluetooth Dongle

The main benefit of BT is to reduce clutter and offer convenience, so a dongle would completely negate this benefit. On the other hand, the benefit of the wired connection is quality and not convenience, therefore a good adapter does not hinder this benefit and is not a problem. Also, Apple fixed the common BT issues with the W1 chip.

This is why a BT dongle really doesn’t make any sense, while a lightning to headphone jack adapter does.

 

[borntrouble]

What is the benefit except Apple selling more of their accessories?

 

[HVDynamo]

True, but in this case, removing the jack is obviously not pointless, because there are good and valid reasons to do so for the benefit of the majority of users.

Likewise, in this case, those who understand this move are not defending Apple, but common sense.

Do you mind listing these benefits? Sure there was some space savings by removing it, but I don't feel the tradeoff was worth it in any case. Not having the 3.5mm jack ***** all over my use case. There is one point I can think of though. Promoting the new wireless Air Pods and beats headphones that Apple stands to profit from selling.

 

[jblagden]

Maybe someone that owns quality headphones but also has a tiny bluetooth receiver that costs about $15 and which stays on the end of the headphone lead?
Who really wants to be tethered to a device? I've lost count of the cords I've broken, or the times I've turned quickly and pulled something off the table. It's hateful. I go back to the days when I had a long springy thing connected across the room to my living room stereo. Horrible.
The receiver allows me to stream from the iphone to my excellent living room system, or listen to the TV on excellent, comfortable headhones, or the Macbook or ipad on a table not 30" away from me. It works with so many devices that would otherwise be useless it's hard to be without it.
Plus, it will change track, change volume and even take calls for $15. It includes a (poor quality) mic.
The sound is the same. Once you go digital it strictly does what it's told and either works or doesn't. You're at the mercy of the DAC in the machine you are connected to but that's not changing whether you plug in or not.
Lag is device dependent. For audio it isn't a problem anyway but for video it can be. Very difficult to predict if there is a lag on video or not but some devices allow you to adjust for it.

Actually, with wireless headphones, you're using the DAC that's built into the headphones. You're just outsourcing audio processing. So-called "digital headphones" aren't actually digital; they still use copper circuitry and such; sound reproduction technology hasn't changed that much, as we still need audio converted to analog so we can actually hear it. The alternative would be brain implants that connect wirelessly to our phones.

 

[aevan]

Lol, I’m sure the audio engineers and composers that buy MacBook Pros would love that moronic decision.

If such a hypothetical scenario would happen and there was good reason behind it (lets say a bigger battery), perhaps the audio engineers would rather use a good usb-c adapter for the audio jack while enjoying better battery life?

I am not saying this would be a good decision, just that things are never simple and rarely “moronic” when it comes to companies like Apple, Microsoft, etc that have some of the best engineers and designers of computers on the planet. “Moronic” is how people with a superficial view of technology describe complex decisions, so I’m sure you didn’t mean it and it was more an emotional response.

 

[flat five]

Is that true? There’s no way to hard reset the iPhone anymore? No way. I’m not going to the Apple store so they can tell me to schedule an appt. that’s ridiculous.
I swear I might just leave Apple. I’m having probs with my iPhone now my Apple TV4K. They def are falling off.
What’s funny is they must think people don’t have options. There are so many options today and it’s easier to switch than ever before.

you can hard reset iPhoneX..
(tap vol up, then vol down, then press&hold siri button)

i think OP was talking about a hypothetical future device that has no physical buttons and assuming there won’t be a way to reset under those conditions

 

[Mrjoedot]

Embrace wireless, lads. Soon, audio jack would be a thing of the past.

 

[GtrDude]

So if you like TouchID on your iPad, a headphone jack, using your iPad in landscape orientation, holding your iPad by the ‘bezels’, or not paying more than a $1000, buy your iPad NOW...!!!

Or just get a Samsung tablet.
The have a lot bigger size selection, largest one is 18", have the headphone connection, home button, menu button, expandable memory, don't need to go through iTunes if you want to transfer stuff, and they run on Android.

https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/tablets/all-tablets/

 

[aevan]

Do you mind listing these benefits? Sure there was some space savings by removing it, but I don't feel the tradeoff was worth it in any case. Not having the 3.5mm jack ***** all over my use case. There is one point I can think of though. Promoting the new wireless Air Pods and beats headphones that Apple stands to profit from selling.

Of course I can’t, I am not an engineer and I am not working on these products. I can only assume that there is good reasoning behind such a decision and that, so far, Apple squeezed every inch of iOS devices to provide amazing performance combined with really bright screens and tremendous battery life. Every space in an iPhone is filled, and the devices are among the best made consumer electronic devices in existence (at least, according to people who are familiar with these things, like serious reviewers or the CEO of iFixit, etc) - so I can combine the trust I have in Apple’s engineers with the common sense of using the most of a very small space and literally cramming tech inside and the experience of previous iOS devices (like custom motherboards and custom batteries that fill up all available space) to come to a conclusion: if Apple removes the headphone jack from the iPad, it will be with good reason.

I’m sure people saying it would be a ridiculous decision are all expert computer engineers and know all about making an iPad while Apple does things just to annoy their customers. Yeah.

 

[HVDynamo]

If such a hypothetical scenario would happen and there was good reason behind it (lets say a bigger battery), perhaps the audio engineers would rather use a good usb-c adapter for the audio jack while enjoying better battery life?

I am not saying this would be a good decision, just that things are never simple and rarely “moronic” when it comes to companies like Apple, Microsoft, etc that have some of the best engineers and designers of computers on the planet. “Moronic” is how people with a superficial view of technology describe complex decisions, so I’m sure you didn’t mean it and it was more an emotional response.

As someone who does some audio engineering. Absolutely not. I want the port in the machine and don't want to have to lug around a usb-c adaptor for the 3min of extra battery life I would gain from it.

 

[jblagden]

There is no irrationality. Apple (if the rumor is true) is not removing the jack out of irrational reasons. Also, they are well aware that some people didn’t stop using it, and no one here is claiming the port is useless.

The rationale behind this decision is that majority of people will be fine with either using the adapter (which is really not a big deal and every critic here is acting like you won’t be able to plug in your headphones into the iPad anymore - that is not true) or using wireless headphones. With this in mind, they decided that the benefits of repurposing this space for other internal components are worth the minor inconvenience for a specific group of users.

You can now see why this decision is indeed rational, and why the comment “just because you don’t use it....” is an oversimplified view of the issue.

My problem is that Apple is continually removing industry-standard ports, and they're doing so to either: 1) Make the devices thinner, or 2) Make more money by either selling more adapters or an expensive new product (ahem, AirPods). The consumer doesn't really benefit here. Sure, the devices get thinner, but they're already thin enough. We're at the point of diminishing returns, at least as far as the consumer is concerned.

 

[aevan]

As someone who does some audio engineering. Absolutely not. I want the port in the machine and don't want to have to lug around a usb-c adaptor for the 3min of extra battery life I would gain from it.

How do you know it would be 3 mins? Also, the fact that you do some audio engineering does not automatically make you an authority on design, especially since you describe carrying a small adapter as “lugging around”.

If (a big “if”) Apple does remove this port from a MacBook Pro one day, it will be after consultations with top industry professionals, including audio engineers.
[doublepost=1532881482][/doublepost]

My problem is that Apple is continually removing industry-standard ports, and they're doing so to either: 1) Make the devices thinner, or 2) Make more money by either selling more adapters or an expensive new product (ahem, AirPods). The consumer doesn't really benefit here. Sure, the devices get thinner, but they're already thin enough. We're at the point of diminishing returns, at least as far as the consumer is concerned.

I really benefit from the increased water resistance. Also, from all the tech in my iPhone X which is not thinner than an iPhone 6S (so, the removal of the jack was not to make it thinner).

I’d say you’re wrong about consumer not benefiting. But hey, if you can design a better phone for the customers than the iPhone, I’d say you have a great career ahead of you Things are not simple, every decision is a compromise.

 

[towdow3]

im glad they are getting rid of it. I have used the headphone jack on my iPad probably TWICE. I've had my iPad for almost a year now. plus I use the lighting headphone adapter on my phone here and there but of course you're always gonna have people who WHINE and MOAN and COMPLAIN. then they still buy apple products like chumps LOL

 

[cyb3rdud3]

See this is where I will disagree 100% with you.
It was only this way with Apple products as Steve Jobs/Apple kept secret the means to make flash access Apple Hardware/routines correctly so it had to brute force it.

Flash runs, like a dream on my PC, barely taking any power whatsoever.

Steve could of got Apple to design Apple products to run Flash like a dream if he wanted.
But he didn't and went all out to block it, so he could develop their own little apps/games to sell.

When all this was a hot topic, I has multiple full screen flash animations on screen with a tiny CPU loading, as the hardware was dealing with it all, which was never allowed on Apple devices.

Naturally, so how come everyone stopped support for it including google etc? It was rubbish.

 

[HVDynamo]

Of course I can’t, I am not an engineer and I am not working on these products. I can only assume that there is good reasoning behind such a decision and that, so far, Apple squeezed every inch of iOS devices to provide amazing performance combined with really bright screens and tremendous battery life. Every space in an iPhone is filled, and the devices are among the best made consumer electronic devices in existence (at least, according to people who are familiar with these things, like serious reviewers or the CEO of iFixit, etc) - so I can combine the trust I have in Apple’s engineers with the common sense of using the most of a very small space and literally cramming tech inside and the experience of previous iOS devices (like custom motherboards and custom batteries that fill up all available space) to come to a conclusion: if Apple removes the headphone jack from the iPad, it will be with good reason.

I’m sure people saying it would be a ridiculous decision are all expert computer engineers and know all about making an iPad while Apple does things just to annoy their customers. Yeah.

I happen to be an Electrical Engineer and a hobbyist in the audio engineering world. If you can't back up your claims, please don't make them. The 3.5mm jack doesn't take up enough space to make a big enough impact in battery life, or other things to make the removal worth it. There are other things along the bottom of the phone that require depth into the phone (speaker chambers, lighting port) and the headphone jack doesn't protrude much past those, It really wasn't encroaching much on the battery space that other things weren't already limiting. The real space gain is the difference between those items, not the total space free'd by the headphone jack being gone when considering battery life. Sure they can use the rest of the opened space for more sensors or something, but I honestly don't need any sensors more than what I have in my 6S now. They ended up using the tiny bit of extra space gained for a larger Taptic Engine (why? the one in my 6S works just fine as-is). I see zero trade-offs that I would consider worth it in an engineering or normal usage sense.

 

[aevan]

Fixed.

No, you fixed wrong - it’s users. Shareholders care about sales, and Apple sells a lot of premium products because users love them. They will not intentionally design something that most users will dislike.

Some of the Macrumors Forum crowd is forever lost to them, though.
[doublepost=1532882068][/doublepost]

I happen to be an Electrical Engineer and a hobbyist in the audio engineering world. If you can't back up your claims, please don't make them. The 3.5mm jack doesn't take up enough space to make a big enough impact in battery life, or other things to make the removal worth it. There are other things along the bottom of the phone that require depth into the phone (speaker chambers, lighting port) and the headphone jack doesn't protrude much past those, It really wasn't encroaching much on the battery space that other things weren't already limiting. The real space gain is the difference between those items, not the total space free'd by the headphone jack being gone when considering battery life. Sure they can use the rest of the opened space for more sensors or something, but I honestly don't need any sensors more than what I have in my 6S now. They ended up using the tiny bit of extra space gained for a larger Taptic Engine (why? the one in my 6S works just fine as-is). I see zero trade-offs that I would consider worth it in an engineering or normal usage sense.

Most of your arguments are “for me”, “I don’t need”, etc. You may be an electrical engineer, but you’re really subjective when it comes to this. For example, I don’t think 6S taptic engine works just fine as-is, after upgrading my 6S to the X and seeing how better it is (new haptics are one of the most ‘suprise and delight’ moments I had when I upgraded). I also enjoy all the new sensors, like Face ID, and improved battery life over the 6S. So, I guess, for me, the removal of the jack was worth it. And I can also guess that is the case with most users.

So, being an electrical engineer does not make you a designer or a market analyst. Also, Apple also has electrical engineers that seem to think differently than you. I think I’ll take their word for it, even though I’m not an engineer myself.

 

[towdow3]

chances are the Smart Keyboard will become a SMART CASE w keyboard. if you think the folks at apple are dumb enough to make a vertical only keyboard then you're dumber than a box of rocks.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I was determined to hold onto my iPhone 6 because of the headphone jack. The phone itself was becoming painfully slow and I wanted a better camera so I begrudgingly got the iPhone 8 Plus (wasn’t ready to let go of Touch ID yet). I love the 8 Plus and I am so happy I decided to go bigger instead of just upgrading to an iPhone 8. The only thing that I hate about it is the removal of the headphone jack. I fly a lot. With my iPhone 6 I could listen to music and charge my device at the same time. Now I have to use a Belkin adaptor to give me two lightening ports for charging and listening. As if that wasn’t enough, I then need to add the lightening to 3.5mm adaptor to use my Bose QC25 headphones. The whole set up looks ridiculous and every time I pull it out, the person sitting next to me on the plane, without fail, comments on how dumb it was to remove the headphone jack. As much as having to do this annoys me, I put up with it because I have no choice. I know I’ll probably get replies telling me to move onto wireless headphones. AirPods seem great but I need noise cancelling for how often I fly and I really can’t afford/justify spending a lot of money on high quality bluetooth headphones right now. So until they are cheaper or I start making more fun money, this is what I will keep doing. I wish Apple would have just left it in. I will complain about it all the time because that is just the nature of my personality but I understand why they did it. I really hope this decision helps push the industry further but in the meantime, this adjustment period completely sucks for me. Not sure why people on MacRumors forums can’t understand where people are coming from on both sides of this issue. The way people debate this is almost similar to the state of political discussions in this country right now.

Bose, Beats, Sony, AKG and Sennheiser all do excellent noise cancelling bluetooth headphones. Both phone and headphones were perfect on a 24 hour flight to Oz. No need to charge either.

 

[eVolcre]

Bose, Beats, Sony, AKG and Sennheiser all do excellent noise cancelling bluetooth headphones. Both phone and headphones were perfect on a 24 hour flight to Oz. No need to charge either.

He specifically said he can’t afford or justify spending a lot of money at the moment. My wireless qc35 are superb but they ARE about 350 bucks and sound wise are equivalent to my (and the posters) qc25

 

[HVDynamo]

No, you fixed wrong - it’s users. Shareholders care about sales, and Apple sells a lot of premium products because users love them. They will not intentionally design something that most users will dislike.

Some of the Macrumors Forum crowd is forever lost to them, though.
[doublepost=1532882068][/doublepost]

Most of your arguments are “for me”, “I don’t need”, etc. You may be an electrical engineer, but you’re really subjective when it comes to this. For example, I don’t think 6S taptic engine works just fine as-is, after upgrading my 6S to the X and seeing how better it is (new haptics are one of the most ‘suprise and delight’ moments I had when I upgraded). I also enjoy all the new sensors, like Face ID, and improved battery life over the 6S. So, I guess, for me, the removal of the jack was worth it. And I can also guess that is the case with most users.

So, being an electrical engineer does not make you a designer or a market analyst. Also, Apple also has electrical engineers that seem to think differently than you. I think I’ll take their word for it, even though I’m not an engineer myself.

Headphone jack was removed a year prior to FaceID addition, and as such FaceID is irrelevant to the original drop of the jack. The battery was barely larger in the iPhone 7, and what other sensors are you enjoying that couldn't have been there before? Taptic Engine, I can give you that one especially if you are someone who doesn't use the 3.5mm port. But All the others don't hold much water. Also, engineers at a large company don't always get to define the direction a product takes. They just have to make what marketing wants work even if it's stupid. A lot of times there is a huge disconnect between what marketing wants and what is feasibly possible and it forces stupid trade-offs. Maybe that isn't true here, but in my experience it's pretty much the norm at a large company.
[doublepost=1532883508][/doublepost]

How do you know it would be 3 mins? Also, the fact that you do some audio engineering does not automatically make you an authority on design, especially since you describe carrying a small adapter as “lugging around”.

If (a big “if”) Apple does remove this port from a MacBook Pro one day, it will be after consultations with top industry professionals, including audio engineers.
[doublepost=1532881482][/doublepost]

I really benefit from the increased water resistance. Also, from all the tech in my iPhone X which is not thinner than an iPhone 6S (so, the removal of the jack was not to make it thinner).

I’d say you’re wrong about consumer not benefiting. But hey, if you can design a better phone for the customers than the iPhone, I’d say you have a great career ahead of you Things are not simple, every decision is a compromise.

Water Resistance can be added without removing the jack. Ask Samsung about that one. The 3 minutes was an arbitrary number, the point is, the capacity difference gained from the space would be tiny. Being a user of the product does, however make me an expert of my needs of a product when it comes to using it. You trust Apple too much. Think for yourself instead of being spoon-fed their Kool-aid.

 

[bluecoast]

I wonder if you’ll be able to use the Smart Keyboard in both vertical and horizontal orientations?

Audio/Headphone jack - maybe BT 5.0 is as low latency as the standard audio/headphone jack now.

Please let there be a mousepad included on the Smart Keyboard. Else I’m happy to pass on buying an iPad until there is.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

He specifically said he can’t afford or justify spending a lot of money at the moment. My wireless qc35 are superb but they ARE about 350 bucks and sound wise are equivalent to my (and the posters) qc25

And he doesn’t have to He can still plug in the existing headphones, just leave the adaptor attached and you wouldn’t know the difference. I’m merely highlighting some excellent alternatives

 

[eVolcre]

And he doesn’t have to He can still plug in the existing headphones, just leave the adaptor attached and you wouldn’t know the difference. I’m merely highlighting some excellent alternatives

Oh I agree with you. Get an adapter. I’ve seen one that has both lightning and the headphone jack.

Was simply pointing out the specific reference to New Bluetooth headphones and his budget.

eV

 

[Perene]

Embrace wireless, lads. Soon, audio jack would be a thing of the past.

So the reason not everyone is embracing wireless is because they all want to live in the past?

I thought it was because wired headphones are better and being flooded with radiation can impair your health....

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/airpods-and-headache-ear-pain.2022765/
https://sites.google.com/site/understandingemfs/

 

[eVolcre]

chances are the Smart Keyboard will become a SMART CASE w keyboard. if you think the folks at apple are dumb enough to make a vertical only keyboard then you're dumber than a box of rocks.

How do you envision that working? Genuinely curious. So a keyboard like we have now and a case with it?

We need a proper Smart Keyboard that’s actually bloody smart. Backlighting and a row of function keys would be great. Make it thicker. Sell both. Give us a choice.

And btw I agree with you. (Maybe in milder words). And simply don’t believe that part of the rumor. Either it stays on the horizontal side or they’ve added a second smart connector in portrait for reasons unknown.