Apple Says Epic Games 'Wants Us to Be Android, But We Don't Want to Be'

[k2k koos]

These comments need to be shared in this courtcase. Yes I went with Apple precisely because of the security they offer, the tight integration between hard and software so that in most cases things 'just work'. If I wanted it otherwise, I'd go Android (or if I really like a challenge, Windows phone... ) That includes the App store.

 

[GuruZac]

I actually like being in a walled garden within the Apple ecosystem. I know the apps I download are generally well vetted and safe, the software stable for the most part, and the hardware top notch. I’m happy Apple controlling that to give me the experience I really enjoy with their products.

 

[quarkysg]

try owning a bake shop and refusing to sell a cake to a certain group of people

Think you're using the wrong analogy here.

The proper one would be owning a bakery and choosing the type of cakes/breads/whatever to sell in the bakery. Anyone can go to the bakery and buy what's for sale.

 

[quarkysg]

Why am I forced to install app's through Appstore? If you want the exposure and convenience of using the App Store that's fine - but the fact I cannot install whatever software I want on my computer in my pocket is insane.

You're not forced to. You have every right to install any software you want in your phone. Just that Apple is not obligated to help you make it happen. You can find a way to do it. Just don't expect any help from Apple. Otherwise there's also other smart phone options open to you.

 

[m11rphy]

if Apple forced you to buy all software through App Store on Mac

I think you would surprised how many people would be really happy with this, I for example want a Mac game called football manager but its only available though steam and I'm not installing their POS app on my Mac so I can't play the game I want.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

Epic should create their own EpicOS, launch some EpicPhones and EpicPads(with free Fornite skins and discounted Battle Pass subscriptions), and then proceed to do the most epic of all things, leaving Apple and those that want the Apple experience alone.

But in all seriousness, how on Earth would you go about forcing a grocery store chain to sell your product AND split the profits with you exactly as you want AND have the grocery store chain place and promote the product in their stores exactly how you want it while still enforcing the exact split of profits that you want?

If you don't like any part of how a business choses to operate, you stop buying their goods, or, if you're a business owner yourself, you refuse to partner with them and find other venues to sell your goods/services or create your own store/marketplace.

And to all of you "I should be able to install anything on any device I have bought and use my iPhone exactly how I want" -Yes, you should and you can do that. It's called buying an Android smartphone or literally any other brand or device. Or jailbreaking your iPhone, then it's completely yours to ruin.

Apple is the walled garden. You can stay or leave whenever you want, but you can't take anything with you outside the garden. And if you don't like the garden and it's many, many rules then you can go somewhere else. How is that so hard to accept?

It's not your garden, it's Apple's garden!

 

[quarkysg]

They will soon be forced to included ballot screens anyway for default apps like Microsoft and Google were back in the day now that they are losing the Spotify battle too in the EU.

You either don't really know the history here or just trying to twist facts to fit your narrative. Microsoft got into trouble because they used their monopoly (not in itself illegal) power to force OEMs to not pre-install Netscape or risk not getting any Windows licenses for their beige boxes (this is the illegal bit here.) This is anti-competitive.

 

[hans1972]

I wish Apple users would realize that you can still have a walled garden if you want to. All that Epic is asking for is a door.

People who like Apple's curated space can stay inside an be comfortable there. People who want more choices can unlock the door and step outside.

It's not one door but several hundreds of doors. Look at the number of app stores for Android. Already back in 2013 there were over 500 stores for Android.

But there is something else you forget if you introduce more app stores. The App Store won't contain all the apps.

Having just one store for everything with no possibility of something existing outside that store has value.

 

[nikaru]

There will be plenty of appeals. What’s Apple’s plan if they lose? I doubt their walled garden is going to last as they are getting scrutinized more and more internationally.

There are plenty of things Apple can do. For example, a pop-up warning message that inform you that you are about to install an app that contains in-app purchases that are outside Apple control/ecosystem, disable TouchID and FaceID security authentication for in-app payments outside Apple control or directly force such payments to be made via web browser so in-app payments are only possible if you pay Apple's cut, extend review time for apps containing any other form of payment method, other than Apple's one, limit developers access to Apple developers tools for those using such external payment methods, enforce stricter rules in general for apps containing external payment methods requiring for example that the security of the payment method offered by the app is periodically audited/verified by a third party security firm, etc. Apple could create a lot of bureaucracy for those wanting to play on their own as Epic, and virtually all these measures could be in some way or other be justified by Apple with security concerns and conserve the integrity of the AppStore.

 

[hans1972]

I mean this question in good faith: for the folks who are worried this would affect the security of your device, can’t you not download apps from a third party store? Outside of that, what are the reasons for defending Apple?

What if the app you want isn't in the App Store but in another store? Now, you have to deal with two stores and two payment systems.

The convenience of having just one store for everything is great.

Also I trust Apple to make good censoring decisions although I wish Apple would censure more. A lot of other app stores will let much more dubious stuff into their store.

 

[5232152]

I think you would surprised how many people would be really happy with this, I for example want a Mac game called football manager but its only available though steam and I'm not installing their POS app on my Mac so I can't play the game I want.

But that change absolutely nothing? Nothing prevents Football Manager to be available through the App store today. I have plenty of games on Steam I bought through GOG just to avoid using it.

 

[5232152]

Epic should create their own EpicOS, launch some EpicPhones and EpicPads(with free Fornite skins and discounted Battle Pass subscriptions), and then proceed to do the most epic of all things, leaving Apple and those that want the Apple experience alone.

But in all seriousness, how on Earth would you go about forcing a grocery store chain to sell your product AND split the profits with you exactly as you want AND have the grocery store chain place and promote the product in their stores exactly how you want it while still enforcing the exact split of profits that you want?

If you don't like any part of how a business choses to operate, you stop buying their goods, or, if you're a business owner yourself, you refuse to partner with them and find other venues to sell your goods/services or create your own store/marketplace.

And to all of you "I should be able to install anything on any device I have bought and use my iPhone exactly how I want" -Yes, you should and you can do that. It's called buying an Android smartphone or literally any other brand or device. Or jailbreaking your iPhone, then it's completely yours to ruin.

Apple is the walled garden. You can stay or leave whenever you want, but you can't take anything with you outside the garden. And if you don't like the garden and it's many rules then you can go somewhere else. How is that so hard to accept?

It's not your garden, it's Apple's garden!

If a grocery chain has a monopoly and forces everyone to pay a ton for very little, that is when regulation comes in. Something that Americans don't enjoy but also get pissed about when it hits them in the back like a boomerang. A reason why European regulation is such an important part of the global market. They are truly the watchdog of the world when it comes to capitalistic greed.

 

[5232152]

You're not forced to. You have every right to install any software you want in your phone. Just that Apple is not obligated to help you make it happen. You can find a way to do it. Just don't expect any help from Apple. Otherwise there's also other smart phone options open to you.

Apple blocks third-party vendors. Cydia and many others were having their insanely well-made ecosystems abolished because Apple didn't get their 30% cut. So yes, I am being told how to use a product that I paid for and Apple is making it impossible to use it the way that I best see fit by changing the OS for the sake of hurting me as a consumer due to cooperate greed. It's that simple.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Point #1 is simply false. Many operating systems don;t allow this. In fact, MOST operating systems don’t allow it. With few exceptions, you can’t install your own apps on your cable box, your car, your game console, your microwave, your router, your home appliances, etc. Etc.

Nobody installs apps on their microwave, router, home appliances, etc, at all - certainly not in a way approved by the manufacturer.

Cable boxes are rented, not owned, by consumers. If a consumer stops paying at any point, the cable company requests it back and bricks it. This is not like any other device listed in the conversation.

I meant to exclude game consoles from the conversation when I used the word “major”, but as far as I’m aware, every single game console permits software to come from physical media, which can come from any retailer. I’m not forced to buy games for my Switch exclusively from Nintendo - I’m free to go to Walmart, Best Buy, Game Stop, Target, Amazon, etc to go buy games for it.

 

[IllinoisCorn]

Boy. There’s going to be a lot of terrible journalism over this trial with people writing about it having very little clue as to what they are talking about.

 

[IG88]

I haven't heard of single malware for iOS

It's easy to not hear anything when you stick your head in the sand.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

If every other major OS does what you want it to do, then why not use one of those rather than work to eliminate the only alternative?

What a fantastic question, I’m glad you brought it up. That’s the evidence it’s a monopoly.

It’s like asking why somebody doesn’t just move to another state or country if they’re unhappy with the one they’re in. Yeah, they could, but that requires a massive amount of effort. If I asked you to switch to Android, how much time and money would you have to spend on the transition until your life/routines are back to being as seamless as they are now?

 

[Glideslope]

Boy. There’s going to be a lot of terrible journalism over this trial with people writing about it having very little clue as to what they are talking about.

As is the case with virtually any news item in 2021.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Heck I’d prefer if the AppStore
we’re MUCH more selective. Instead of having to wade through a lot of the garbage that’s in there id actually prefer of there was a more curated approach, but guess what?

This is another excellent point. Apple likes to argue that their wall around the garden benefits customers by being a quality filter, but as you just expressed, that’s total nonsense.

You know which platform is easy to find good software for, and doesn’t have a problem of having endless piles of crap for it? macOS.

When you allow software developers to write stuff for free, they build stuff for themselves, release it online for free, and word of mouth/web search engines seamlessly lets everyone discover and use it. It also encourages Open Source apps - collections of people working together to build fantastic apps that everyone can use for free.

When you force every developer to pay for anything they distribute, few developers are willing to release it for free. Instead, everyone needs to recoup the developer fee that Apple charges. Thus the scourge of In-App Purchases and Adware. The whole issue of apps tracking you everywhere you go is a problem that Apple created - most apps wouldn’t participate in these tracking networks were it not for the fact that developers don’t want to lose money on the free apps they distribute, so they put ads in.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Remember when iOS blocked flash?

What if it’s the rest of the world who is wrong?

Remember when Apple blocked the scourge of software that developers had to pay Adobe to use? Yes. That was a good move.

Apple has become to new Adobe and the iOS App Store is the new Flash, in your analogy. Apple needs to admit that forcing the App Store is a colossal mistake. (See my post immediately above this one for more details.)

 

[m11rphy]

But that change absolutely nothing? Nothing prevents Football Manager to be available through the App store today. I have plenty of games on Steam I bought through GOG just to avoid using it

But they don't sell through the app store only steam, if Apple did force sales through the App Store I could get my game and be happy. Many would agree with me, many would hate it.

 

[m11rphy]

Nobody installs apps on their microwave, router, home appliances, etc, at all - certainly not in a way approved by the manufacturer.

Cable boxes are rented, not owned, by consumers. If a consumer stops paying at any point, the cable company requests it back and bricks it. This is not like any other device listed in the conversation.

I meant to exclude game consoles from the conversation when I used the word “major”, but as far as I’m aware, every single game console permits software to come from physical media, which can come from any retailer. I’m not forced to buy games for my Switch exclusively from Nintendo - I’m free to go to Walmart, Best Buy, Game Stop, Target, Amazon, etc to go buy games for it.

Nintendo still get their 30% cut though the license fee, it doesn't matter when you buy the game the developer still pays Nintendo

 

[adi20]

Thanks for sharing, this is great thing, isn't it?

 

[Ethosik]

#1, no, people want iOS's rules to be like macOS's rules. Stop trying to suggest that it's a radical idea to permit apps to be installed from the internet. Every other major OS allows this - iOS is the only one that doesn't.

False, you don't speak for everyone. Even if one single person will leave iOS due to this change, Apple should fight it because they will essentially be FORCED to change to something they DO not want and WILL result in loss of customers.

I do NOT want the macOS model....desktop models do not work on phones. macOS has malware - 1,000% malware growth in 2020 alone. The only reason macOS is as "secure" as it is is because Windows dominates the desktop. So most malware and most malware packs available on the dark web are for windows.

 

[Sciomar]

Boy. There’s going to be a lot of terrible journalism over this trial with people writing about it having very little clue as to what they are talking about.

Anyone can be an expert with the right kind of audience to fill the echo chamber.