“Apple also expressly and repeatedly told both this Court and Epic that it would welcome Fortnite back to the App Store if Epic complied with all of Apple’s Guidelines. That is exactly what Epic did.“
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Apple Says Fortnite for iOS Isn't Blocked Worldwide, Just the U.S.
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Not true. Owned every iPhone until the iPhone 15 Pro Max I am typing on. Bought 16 Pro/Pro Max but returned it. I like what the EU has. At some point Apple will lose their anticompetitive business model. I can’t wait.
Own MacBook Pro M4 16” and a $15k Mac Studio and more. I just don’t like that I can’t do what I want with devices I buy. I can with the Macs! Why can’t I with my iPad and iPhone?
I hope Apple gets slammed for this in a huge way. Their lockdowns and manipulation of other businesses are inexcusable. For the first time in many years, I will not be buying Apple products this year. Hopefully, lawmakers make it clear to Apple that they play fair or go broke. In the meantime, I will wait and see; my current phone, tablets, and labtop are good enough. In the meantime time to cancel subscriptions thru apple and go to direct billing, and no I could care less about Fortnight.
You might not have to wait long if this appeal gets tossed. Or it may not be this way in the US ever. I’m which case it’s not an anticompetitive business model.
I agree with the basic proposition that iPhone users should not be prevented by Apple from buying apps and other products to use on our phones from places other than the Apple App Store. At the same time, I don't think Apple should be prevented from telling it's customers, "if you buy products or apps to use on your phone that were not purchased at the Apple App Store, you will void your warranty and will not be able to obtain product support for any issues that are not specifically hardware related." Apple has legitimate claims to wanting to limit support to phones that have apps only obtained after first going through the process of vetting by Apple to make sure they aren't likely to cause major issues for users (full of malware, etc.).
I also have no sympathy for companies that, on the one hand want Apple to provide a hardware platform for their software and a massive distribution for their software, but then complain about the limitations placed by Apple on that distribution platform. Start your own platform. Unlike Microsoft or Google, Apple didn't steal anyone else's ideas or otherwise take any illegal action in the creation of its platform.
I also have no sympathy for companies that, on the one hand want Apple to provide a hardware platform for their software and a massive distribution for their software, but then complain about the limitations placed by Apple on that distribution platform. Start your own platform. Unlike Microsoft or Google, Apple didn't steal anyone else's ideas or otherwise take any illegal action in the creation of its platform.
How is it not an anticompetitive business model? Only shareholders could possibly love this business model. Every consumer gets screwed over.
This is the truest statement said here. Epic belongs on iPhones of those people who want it. And if Apple is going to lie and cheat more, their whole business model should be regulated deeply. I don’t care about the game, I care that consumers get their right to do with their products what they wish. If most people continue to use App Store more power to them. I want to install what I want. I am fine with a security nightmare from Apple’s marketing BS perspective. As there is no security nightmare and Apple is no more secure than Android.
Every consumer gets screwed over is over the top. while I understand the source of the hyperbole, the truth is nobody gets screwed over. Nobody has to buy an iPhone, nobody has to use the App Store.
And yep shareholders love this model, but that doesn’t mean it’s illegal or anticompetitive.
You would force me, by law, to use a system I don’t want just because you think it should be that way? I don’t want an open, laissez-faire system. I want a single vetted source for apps, with rules around what developers can and can’t do. Why should that not be allowed?
Just curious, how do you manage your Mac and App procurement?
What about website usage?
They have not permanently denied epic. They have said they are waiting on the outcome of the appeal.
Thats not how warranties work; warranty claims can only be denied if the thing that cause failure was not allowed by Apple.
For example, if my phone dies because the waterproofing failed, the fact that I used an app's external payment service is irrelevant to the warranty claim. However, if the waterproofing fails because I replaced the back with a cool transparent panel then the claim can be denied.
Just make iOS Apps like Mac Apps already are.
Notarize them and the system model is secure by default and design.
Then folks can get Apps from anywhere they like, including the Apple App Store, 3rd party App Stores, Dev Direct, etc.
All of this is "solved" and a non issue.
The only reason this is a topic is Apple is trying to defend continuing to take an unjustifiable cut of revenue from every single iOS App, which is only an issue because they won't LET anyone get Apps anywhere else.
iOS users aren't choosing to buy from the Apple App Store.
iPhones are just little computers in your pocket.
Let's finally treat them that way.
Notarize them and the system model is secure by default and design.
Then folks can get Apps from anywhere they like, including the Apple App Store, 3rd party App Stores, Dev Direct, etc.
All of this is "solved" and a non issue.
The only reason this is a topic is Apple is trying to defend continuing to take an unjustifiable cut of revenue from every single iOS App, which is only an issue because they won't LET anyone get Apps anywhere else.
iOS users aren't choosing to buy from the Apple App Store.
iPhones are just little computers in your pocket.
Let's finally treat them that way.
My MacBook isn’t an iPhone. I have them for different purposes, and I like that they are set up differently. On my Mac, I get what I can from the App Store, and what I need from where ever it’s gotten from. It’s a mishmash of a dozen different software management methods, chosen by developers for their own benefit, not mine. It’s a pain in the neck, but I have to put up with it.
I just want to challenge the belligerent assertion that making iOS an open platform is the only right decision. Why can I not have the option to choose a closed system?
(I am in no way saying you’re being belligerent!)
I agree to disagree completely with you. All stakeholders except shareholders get the shaft with this business model so it doesn’t belong in the largest public company. This is not way to treat all the other stakeholders but this is Tim’s way. It’s made AAPL more profitable now, but dare I say it doesn’t seem AAPL under Tim Cook made any strides towards the future. There’s no innovation in the pipeline when a bean counter is at the top and cannot see innovation. The AI fiasco shows that Apple is lost. And it goes on and on from there. The software’s a joke, the bugs are nonstop. The leader has no vision except profit. But that leaves everyone else out. That’s why Apple cannot retain top talent anymore. People want to work for cutting edge and make a difference not for a de facto monopoly that only cares about the shareholders so Tim’s greed is the whole focus. Wasting BILLIONS on Apple Car and Vision Pro that isn’t ready for mass market. The list goes on and on, Tim could only capitalize on Steve’s vision and this is why Scott Forstall was the chosen long term leader of Apple. Sad that Tim setup, blamed and terminated everyone who was in line to take over.
You can have it. Keep using Apple’s anticompetitive model that robs even from developers. You win. We can all win when we can all decide what we want. And then we can do what we want.
That doesn't discount the fact that they are running essentially the same hardware and OS at the core, and both have extremely similar security models built in.
The reality is they are both computers and those are flexible devices.
iOS devices should absolutely have a "locked down mode" (how they are now) for those that still want that.
But they should also be optionally able to be more "open" if the owner of the device would prefer that.
You're forgetting that there are often App types and content types not deemed "seemly" by Apple.
It's not appropriate for Apple to have that level of granular control of what a user wants out of their iPhone experience on the content side.
It's important to look at this from views that are not your own, which I am doing by acknowledging you should still have a locked down mode -- perhaps that should even be the default.
We can have it all here.
This is what makes computers so great!
So you hope Apple gets slammed because Fortnite is withholding global updates because they were banned (this was approved by a judge) in the US for intentionally breaking their contract terms?
Just to be clear I also agree to disagree entirely with your position. But that’s okay. There is no changing anybody’s mind. But I’m a big believer in vote with your $$$.
Apple has done well with TC even if everything wasn’t perfectly executed over the last 14 years.
I understand quite well that iOS is built on the same kernel as macOS.
I am not intrinsically opposed to open systems per se, I just don’t want my iPhone to run one. The argument that you can have a setup that will give you the choice to run locked down, as it is now, or to turn off the safeties and open it up is good on the surface, and as long as it is sufficiently robust, that would be perfectly fine for me. I know what I’m doing well enough to keep myself out of trouble.
However, as we discussed earlier, I dread the day someone convinces someone in my circle to turn off the safeties and install something dodgy, because I’m going to have to pick up the pieces.
That is, to me, the flaw. I don’t see the system as the problem. I think Apple needs to rethink their monetisation strategy for iOS and the App Store, and maybe review some of the rules, but the underlying system is good.
A system on the scale of the iPhone has to be designed for everyone, not just the tech savvy.
Edit: fixing typos
I find it difficult to comprehend the tendency of people to defend Epic Games, just as I struggle to understand the loyalty of Microsoft enthusiasts.
So many people in this thread don’t understand that “what is best for me, a power user who posts on forums for technology enthusiasts” is not the same as “what is best for the majority of the 2 billion iOS users”.
Equally, many don't understand that computers are extremely flexible and can do it all and make the best for both sets of needs
We can have it all here, just like we do on Apple's own Mac
And I think that would ABSOLUTELY be a worse result for the majority of Apple’s users. Not me and you, to be clear, but it would be worse for the majority.