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You are repeating yourself. And anything coming out of Tim Cook's mouth such as "off the charts" has no more credibility than rumors about manufacturing delays. Wild statements like that mean what? What was the chart we are off of? Maybe the chart was to sell 1M and they sold 2M.



My gosh you people are amazing. Apple could literally ship a rock, and I think some people on here would praise them for it. Plenty of other companies build and ship complex devices at a rapid rate by the millions. Apple creates this drama because it drives their stock prices up. Since they haven't had a new design in a phone since the first iPhone 6 in 2014, its no wonder there is this pent up demand. They are responsible for not having enough supply, and for the pent up demand, and as a result they are gouging people with crazy prices and have people lining up to pay it. Its a wonderful thing for their profits.
What on earth are you even doing here? Your Apple bashing is "off the charts". Please don't tell me that you use any kind of Apple product for they all surely s*** in your eyes. If anything you said was true Apple wouldn't be anywhere near the dominant position it finds itself. Can you imagine what it's like these days in the corporate offices of Samsung, Google, Microsoft, etc. I am sure they would love to be in situation where they could utter those famous words, "off the charts"! Besides just wait until the financial reports come out covering the release of the iPhone X. The numbers won't lie and never have.
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Stupid people -.- dont buy and it would be cheaper in about half a year.
Yeah that's a very effective strategy! Not
 
What on earth are you even doing here? Your Apple bashing is "off the charts". Please don't tell me that you use any kind of Apple product for they all surely s*** in your eyes. If anything you said was true Apple wouldn't be anywhere near the dominant position it finds itself. Can you imagine what it's like these days in the corporate offices of Samsung, Google, Microsoft, etc. I am sure they would love to be in situation where they could utter those famous words, "off the charts"! Besides just wait until the financial reports come out covering the release of the iPhone X. The numbers won't lie and never have.
[doublepost=1509207639][/doublepost]
Yeah that's a very effective strategy! Not


Probably upset he couldn’t get one.
But seriously, Check his post history and don’t waste your time.
 
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Yeah it is. For many people its barely an upgrade from the iPhone 6.

No, it really isn't. Just because some people don't notice, or take advantage of things that are improved doesn't mean that things aren't improved.

I mean, you could say that about pretty much every iPhone - and yet the current iPhones are night and day better in every way from the original iPhone.

So its a riddle, isn't it?
 
You are repeating yourself. And anything coming out of Tim Cook's mouth such as "off the charts" has no more credibility than rumors about manufacturing delays. Wild statements like that mean what? What was the chart we are off of?

It's true that "off the charts" is a largely meaningless superlative that lacks a Y-axis…

Maybe the chart was to sell 1M and they sold 2M.

…however, if the maximum on that Y-axis was 1M and they sold 2M, Tim Cook would probably get fired, not to mention a possible SEC investigation.

My gosh you people are amazing. Apple could literally ship a rock, and I think some people on here would praise them for it.

Doubtful.

Plenty of other companies build and ship complex devices at a rapid rate by the millions.

Actually, no single consumer product in history has had volume compared to the iPhone.
 
Yeah, this doesn’t make sense. You’re basically saying that demand for the iPhone is perfectly inelastic to supply availability. You’d have to prove that 100% of smartphone buyers who want to buy an iPhone are willing to wait an indefinite amount of time for supply. This is laughably unrealistic. We can debate the %-age of potential buyers that are willing to wait vs those who are not, but it’s a given that those who would walk to a reasonable substitute certainly do exist (the number of “I decided to buy a Pixel 2 XL instead of waiting for the X” threads I’ve seen in a number of forums are confirmation of this). And I say this as someone who doesn’t personally consider an Android device a substitute good. But we fanboys are a minority compared to the market.

So, given the above, it would behoove Apple’s bottom line and quarterly results calls to try to fulfill demand as much as possible. Generating artificial scarcity would certainly be leaving money on the table (since they’d lose a non-zero number of sales in any given release cycle), and if shareholders found out they were intentionally doing that, I’d expect the board and Tim Cook to be ousted. If I were a shareholder, I’d certainly be calling for it.

Your reply and those of others who keep parroting this theory usually fail to take into account many things that could affect Apple’s supply chain. While it’s certainly possible that Apple is grossly incompetent, it’s more likely that the following things affect Apple’s supply (this is not an exhaustive list): 1) difficulty of ramping up new technology/manufacturing processes, 2) difficulty of accurate prediction of demand with relative precision because of 3) trying to keep inventory low because 4) keeping too much inventory is expensive (its easier and cheaper to produce supply as directly to demand as possible, rather than to produce to inventory, because inventory has a storage cost involved; this is why Apple is said to keep mere days of inventory on average; this is exactly how Cook set things up when he came to Apple, he saved them a load of money in that area), 5) Apple’s supply chain likely also has a certain amount of lead time in response to demand.

There’s likely many other factors that play into this that I’m not even mentioning here. Thus, chalking this up to “artificial scarcity” is merely an uninformed argument that is pretty much only used to slam the company because “how dare I not get launch day delivery! Apple must be intentionally slighting me and hundreds of other diehard fans to drum up demand!” while completely ignoring the obvious fact that generating unfulfillable demand is pointless, if it even worked that way (which it doesn’t). Most people don’t look at a product and go “gee that’s always sold out, maybe I should try to get one” because most people aren’t Apple diehards on MacRumors.



I’d love to see the context of that quote. I have a hunch that he didn’t mean what you think he meant. Steve was many things (including a great showman) but ultimately he wasn’t stupid when it came to doing business.

Leave this thread, you are being too rational and logical. This has become a magnet for the usual MR trolls foaming at the mouth jealous that Apple continues to be successful despite their wishing year after year for its demise.

On the plus side, maybe this thread will draw their attention long enough that they’ll leave the other threads alone and conversations won’t get derailed.
 
Nobody is paying $1000+ for an iPhone at least not up front fully.

There's plenty of receipt images on this site and eBay to show that people are in fact paying $1,000 outright for their phone. Not to mention, the comment was made by a lot of people who did not want to pay an increased monthly cost to cover the $1,000 phone over 2 years either, claiming that the phone was nothing new, a copy of Samsung, dead on arrival, and that a basic $200 phone would be "better" than the X. In the end no matter how you try to justify it, the phone sold out almost instantly, and everyone who bought one is in one way or another paying the full cost so "no one wants" is absolutely false.
 
There's plenty of receipt images on this site and eBay to show that people are in fact paying $1,000 outright for their phone. Not to mention, the comment was made by a lot of people who did not want to pay an increased monthly cost to cover the $1,000 phone over 2 years either, claiming that the phone was nothing new, a copy of Samsung, dead on arrival, and that a basic $200 phone would be "better" than the X. In the end no matter how you try to justify it, the phone sold out almost instantly, and everyone who bought one is in one way or another paying the full cost so "no one wants" is absolutely false.

Let’s say about 100 pics on this site. It doesn’t equate for all US purchasers. As I said I’m estimating 5million for USA. 20K globally.

Paying more for s monthly plan to upgrade means subsidy and again is in line of my opinion, that is NOT paying full retail for the device up front. I guess you missed reading my post fully vs skimming?

You’re saying it’s justified for s statement from Apple the phone sold out when thee is NO official details on numbers of how much had been produced! Bloomberg nor Reuters has any specific numbers just analyst estimates - of which no analyst made a trip to Hon Hai plants to see assembly nor production in their reports. I’ve parsed Bloomberg data everyday for 3mths strait (except weekends) and nothing from analysts stating specific numbers nor a trip to manufacturing plants.

So you’re getting this “ultimately sold out” from Apple only and that’s pre-orders again NOT produced. To me that’s close to pumping TD stock as no imperial data to show the ride in stock price Friday just s frenzy based on feeling. This bothers me cause the value of the stock will not sustain Friday’s raise.
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There's plenty of receipt images on this site and eBay to show that people are in fact paying $1,000 outright for their phone. Not to mention, the comment was made by a lot of people who did not want to pay an increased monthly cost to cover the $1,000 phone over 2 years either, claiming that the phone was nothing new, a copy of Samsung, dead on arrival, and that a basic $200 phone would be "better" than the X. In the end no matter how you try to justify it, the phone sold out almost instantly, and everyone who bought one is in one way or another paying the full cost so "no one wants" is absolutely false.

Further you’ve taken 1 sentence of my post to quote me out of context to suit your rebuttal, Nice.

What I actually stated was:

“Hmm. Considering carrier upgrades, USA citizens getting Upgrade Program as a lease, most likely this statement actually holds true! Nobody is paying $1000+ for an iPhone at least not up front fully. Those that do well most likely are in small numbers (I’m thinking under 5mill in USA alone, 20mil globally paying full retail).
 
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What on earth are you even doing here? Your Apple bashing is "off the charts". Please don't tell me that you use any kind of Apple product for they all surely s*** in your eyes. If anything you said was true Apple wouldn't be anywhere near the dominant position it finds itself. Can you imagine what it's like these days in the corporate offices of Samsung, Google, Microsoft, etc. I am sure they would love to be in situation where they could utter those famous words, "off the charts"! Besides just wait until the financial reports come out covering the release of the iPhone X. The numbers won't lie and never have.
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Yeah that's a very effective strategy! Not
My Apple bashing? If you check my history here you will find that I have repeatedly said Apple, as well as most of there competitors make great products.. in posts in the last day even. Up until 2 weeks ago I had an iPhone 6s+ in my pocket and an Apple Watch on my wrist... for 2 years.

I don't think I'm bashing anything. I'm calling out ridiculous statements by Apple leadership, who I do think are riding into the ground much of what Jobs built, and I'm calling out ridiculous statements by people that blindly follow whatever Apple says or does, and who do bash every other company when they have no clue about their products.

I am a tech consumer. I buy what works for my needs and I don't blindly follow any company.
 
Bad, bad analogy. You are even remotely close to the real situation with iPhone X.

Bad as his analogy may be and stretching the imagination the point is that nobody except Apple knows for certain just how many devices where produced or will ship for November 3rd. That’s the point. Prior to their release Apple stated officially preorders or sales numbers. His year 3mths ago Apple stated they will not anymore because it’s not an accurate reflection - and yet Friday heir doing it yet without numbers to increase the hype stock price and perception of great sales or preorders are more than any previous year.

Personally I feel his is an issue the FCC should scold Apple on doing. Apple’s legal exec should’ve cautioned on this. Should an financial analyst that holds Apple stock state this without any data you can bet this would get them in FCC hot seat.
 
Probably upset he couldn’t get one.
But seriously, Check his post history and don’t waste your time.
Oh yeh... That's it. Do check my post history. You'll find that I have had plenty of good things to say about Apple products. I'm not a fan of the X and have no desire to own one. Maybe after the FaceID gamble is proven in the field... and they create a plus size without the notch, but I doubt it even then. If you check my history you will see that I waited for the Ape announcement, didn't care for this round of iPhones, and bought something else I liked better. My gosh... Imagine someone making a choice not to buy Apple??? I realize than can't compute in some of your heads... But it happens.

And I'm not a fan of Tim Cook, and his crew. So when he makes a ridiculous statement like the subject of this thread, I give my opinion. That is what the forum is for I believe.
 
Personally I feel his is an issue the FCC should scold Apple on doing. Apple’s legal exec should’ve cautioned on this. Should an financial analyst that holds Apple stock state this without any data you can bet this would get them in FCC hot seat.

Maybe. The Amazon Kindle is almost ten years old, and yet we've never, ever heard of any sales numbers. Nor do we have them for the Microsoft Surface line.

We do get sales numbers for the iPhone, just not broken down by line.

So if you want the FCC to create tougher rules, Apple is not quite the place to start.
 
Good now pay sammy 30 billion in court fees
Don't think so considering sammy is an integral part of the iPhone X. You don't think sammy is happy that Apple will sell millions and millions of iPhone Xs considering all the OLED panels are made by sammy? Well maybe they won't be so thrilled after all...
 
The X isn't the sexy choice either. It's the kid who lost his front teeth in an alley fight.

Good one. Didn't get it at first. =D

baby_tooth_knocked_out-e1271115970110-300x229.jpg
 
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Maybe. The Amazon Kindle is almost ten years old, and yet we've never, ever heard of any sales numbers. Nor do we have them for the Microsoft Surface line.

We do get sales numbers for the iPhone, just not broken down by line.

So if you want the FCC to create tougher rules, Apple is not quite the place to start.

you're being a little blind/obtuse.

Kindle sales numbers have been reported.
- Kindle does NOT make up a significant (70%) of Quarterly/Yearly revenue for Amazon.
Microsoft Surface Line Sales numbers HAVE been reported; although the quotes below are generalistic the report does break up it's business lines according to revenue. The Quarterly Analyst call does report sales/revenue numbers.
April 27, 2017, 4:42 PM EDT
Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ntum-slows-on-weaker-sales-of-surface-tablets
Surface Decline
Third-quarter sales in the company’s More Personal Computing business, which houses Windows software, Surface devices and the Xbox game console, fell 7.4 percent to $8.84 billion. That was below the $9.2 billion average estimate of five analysts polled by Bloomberg, owing to a 26 percent decline in Surface revenue.
...
Other businesses performed better than expected. In the Intelligent Cloud unit, made up of Azure and server software deployed in customers’ own data centers, sales increased 11 percent to $6.76 billion, compared with the $6.61 billion average analyst projection. Productivity revenue, mainly Office software, climbed 22 percent to $7.96 billion. Analysts had estimated $7.78 billion.

Apple has always escaped FCC regulatory standards that usually apply to other company's. I honestly wish I could pull facts on this yet I'm sure in the last 10 years there have been a few examples. Either way I don't ever hear Microsoft, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Nokia (in their heyday of S60 platform), BlackBerry, HTC, Samsung, etc state ...

We're not reporting pre-order or opening weekend sales numbers.
then state "orders are through the roof and better than before".

Therein lies what I'm talking about. I'll research a lot more before discussing further.
 
Further you’ve taken 1 sentence of my post to quote me out of context to suit your rebuttal, Nice.

The naysayers said no one would buy a $1,000 phone, payments or not. The phone is sold out, therefore they are obviously wrong. Someone, many in fact, wanted and bought the X. It really doesn't take a 20 page paper full of excuses to show that. It's very clear from your posts the X isn't for you. That's fine. That doesn't mean naysayers are right.
 
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you're being a little blind/obtuse.

And you’re about to be disingenuous.

Kindle sales numbers have been reported.
[..]
Microsoft Surface Line Sales numbers HAVE been reported;

They have not, nor do your quotes suggest they have. How many units have been sold? We do not know.

Apple has always escaped FCC regulatory standards

What? Also, do you mean the SEC?

I honestly wish I could pull facts on this

Indeed.
 
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This is honestly such a big part of their marketing. Constraining supply to increase demand, not only in the short term but for the product as a whole.

Imagine if the iPhone was readily available to pick up? It removes the “exclusivity” of it very quickly.

Edit: They are of course having manufacturing issues, but even if they weren’t, you know they’d issue the same statement.

Controlling supply to increase demand doesn't work like this especially when referring to Apple. Apple does not make more money by limiting their supply if they keep their prices the same.
 
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Yeah, this doesn’t make sense. You’re basically saying that demand for the iPhone is perfectly inelastic to supply availability. You’d have to prove that 100% of smartphone buyers who want to buy an iPhone are willing to wait an indefinite amount of time for supply. This is laughably unrealistic. We can debate the %-age of potential buyers that are willing to wait vs those who are not, but it’s a given that those who would walk to a reasonable substitute certainly do exist (the number of “I decided to buy a Pixel 2 XL instead of waiting for the X” threads I’ve seen in a number of forums are confirmation of this). And I say this as someone who doesn’t personally consider an Android device a substitute good. But we fanboys are a minority compared to the market.

So, given the above, it would behoove Apple’s bottom line and quarterly results calls to try to fulfill demand as much as possible. Generating artificial scarcity would certainly be leaving money on the table (since they’d lose a non-zero number of sales in any given release cycle), and if shareholders found out they were intentionally doing that, I’d expect the board and Tim Cook to be ousted. If I were a shareholder, I’d certainly be calling for it.

Your reply and those of others who keep parroting this theory usually fail to take into account many things that could affect Apple’s supply chain. While it’s certainly possible that Apple is grossly incompetent, it’s more likely that the following things affect Apple’s supply (this is not an exhaustive list): 1) difficulty of ramping up new technology/manufacturing processes, 2) difficulty of accurate prediction of demand with relative precision because of 3) trying to keep inventory low because 4) keeping too much inventory is expensive (its easier and cheaper to produce supply as directly to demand as possible, rather than to produce to inventory, because inventory has a storage cost involved; this is why Apple is said to keep mere days of inventory on average; this is exactly how Cook set things up when he came to Apple, he saved them a load of money in that area), 5) Apple’s supply chain likely also has a certain amount of lead time in response to demand.

There’s likely many other factors that play into this that I’m not even mentioning here. Thus, chalking this up to “artificial scarcity” is merely an uninformed argument that is pretty much only used to slam the company because “how dare I not get launch day delivery! Apple must be intentionally slighting me and hundreds of other diehard fans to drum up demand!” while completely ignoring the obvious fact that generating unfulfillable demand is pointless, if it even worked that way (which it doesn’t). Most people don’t look at a product and go “gee that’s always sold out, maybe I should try to get one” because most people aren’t Apple diehards on MacRumors.

Exactly this ^

As you say, it simply doesn't even make sense to create artificial scarcity, as all that happens is you lose sales that otherwise would have been in the bag, and on the bottom line. There has been scarcity for the last couple of months, demand is already ramped up. So it makes most sense to be able to fulfil that demand on day one, or as close to it and is practically possible. There is nothing to beguiled by keeping people waiting for any significant amount of time.
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This is honestly such a big part of their marketing. Constraining supply to increase demand, not only in the short term but for the product as a whole.

Imagine if the iPhone was readily available to pick up? It removes the “exclusivity” of it very quickly.

Edit: They are of course having manufacturing issues, but even if they weren’t, you know they’d issue the same statement.

Does it really increase demand?

All it really does is create artificial unmet demand during the early part of the release cycle, and create a number of would be buyers who are having to wait to buy the product.

You need to explain how it benefits Apple financially to keep people waiting, rather than selling it to them as soon as possible - if you can, I'm all ears.

Or are you suggesting that, for example, for every 100 people who want a new iPhone on day 1, if you only supply 50 of those people, this creates additional would be buyers over and above the 50 people who had to wait?
 
It will be interesting to hear real numbers. Apple previously released such information saying in 2014 there were 4 million preorders placed in the first 24 hours and 10 million placed during the first three days the iPhone 6 was available. In 2015 the 6s had 13 million preorders during its first three days.

If the sales really are off the charts I expect Apple to be trumpeting major numbers of 20 million or more on Monday or Tuesday as they trounce the previous records. Tim Cook himself said expectations for the redesigned iPhone have kept sales numbers low the past couple of quarters as people deliberately postponed upgrading because they were waiting for the new phone.

An absence of numbers on Monday will be very telling. If they don't say something at least by their earnings call on Thursday then I have every expectation we'll see yet another comparative quarter decline in sales when they have their next earnings call in February.


I'm also very curious for the first sales numbers which they usually throw around. At this point, the shipping times could either mean spectacular demand or production shortages. Since even the first units ship directly from the factory in China, it seems like they haven't had time to get first batches to American customs and ware houses, it seems like they only sell however much they hold in stock at Foxconn. With actual shipping taking less than a week, they appear to now be selling several weeks of future production runs, so initial stock was (deliberately or through constraints) not even close to satisfying demand.
 
Any space gray is still 5-6 weeks. One would think if there’s that much demand, it would be a lot longer. 5-6 weeks is what the delay was 48 hours ago when I checked.
 
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