Correct according to your original post and stipulations. Changes can cause bugs ecosystem wide. Maybe they don’t but they can and it stands to reason the more the changes the more bugs might manifest themselves.
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Apple Says New EU Interoperability Rules 'Bad for Our Products and Our Users'
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You can’t say it will limit innovation if you don’t allow people to innovate better connectivity on the platform then what do you expect when you get this type of legislation
So what apple features or products can’t you get in your country because I suspect your not based in the EU
If apple offered the exact same products and features throughout the world then I would see your point about forking and bugs because then they would have to offer something different in one part of the world but since they already do this for multiple different regions anyway then your point is a bit apple sided so to speak
No according to the individual I replied to says that however this is incorrect as iOS is not the same across various different countries including your non European region so they already offer different strokes for different folks anyway especially non EU people anyway and there is no issue as evidence by some on MR or else they would be complaining about why they don’t get the same as everyone else on iOS
Public backing amongst EU citizens for the European Union is at an all time high in a very recent survey. They saw what the UK did and thought, "Knickers to that!" Small countries do well out of their membership as all barriers to trade re removed, saving them billions of Euro per year
The Apple Watch is not considered to be a gatekeeper device. It is not subject to the same restrictions as iPhone.
I'm aware how the law works. The watch interacts with the phone, which runs iOS which is, to use the EU's made up designation, a "gatekeeper."
So like how the EU doesn't get iPhone Mirroring even though MacOS isn't a "gatekeeper", there will likely be features on the watch that won't get released in the EU because of the DMA.
Yes I can, because it will limit innovation.
I'm currently based in the US.
My point is "adding additional forks to the OS changes the ROI for building features and introduces the potential for bugs." That's true whether Apple is doing the forking on its own volition, or in this case, because the EU thinks it knows how to design an OS better than Apple does.
Exactly by not allowing companies to have a chance to offer better connectivity on iOS does restrict these companies from improving their products on iOS because apple won’t ever allow it well done you finally admitted it that as a company that’s what they do so there products have the advantage by blocking
Building what features as you are in the USA then there will be no issue launching these software features there so you won’t miss out because your not in the EU region and so based on how iOS and the iPhone is currently then based on your logic the only individuals that would miss out are in the EU region if apple feel that hard done by with this legislation
No, I admitted no such thing. I said the DMA limits innovation. Nothing Apple does prevents Bose or Garmin or whoever from innovating.
There are features that have not been released and bug that have not been fixed because of the DMA. I can't point to it and say "we would have that if the DMA didn't exist" because you can't prove a negative, but it's absolutely true.
So how do Bose for example if they wanted to have better connectivity on iOS then how would they achieve it if apple won’t allow them to do it
How would they do it because you can’t innovate if apple won’t allow it so that in turn blocks innovation on apple’s platform
That’s correct. That more changes that are made to accommodate the DMA the better the probability of bugs. Claiming because differences exist and there are no bugs the DMA didn’t introduce any bugs is a logical fallacy.
Anything against apple according to some is logical fallacy
Where be it the DMA regulations or bigger devices or software features first or foldable devices Always seems to be logical fallacy according to some individuals without rhyme or reason
Just seems to be because it’s against apple that’s it
The default answer by some is if they don’t like it go to android 😂😂😂
They innovate a way to better connect using the existing standard, come up with a new way on Android and convince Apple to adopt it, or get it added to the Bluetooth standard.
Taking Apple’s technology and putting it their device isn’t innovation - it’s the opposite - literally taking someone else’s work.
You don’t have a right to innovate using someone else’s product.
The rhyme or reason are literally logical fallacies you use to justify some of your arguments.
Because that should be the answer! If you don’t like something, the correct answer is not to “buy their product anyway”. It’s to vote with your wallet.
big problem there apple don’t want companies to have better connectivity on the iPhone as it would take away their advantage or else they would have allowed companies access to the tools required for them to achieve that.
One minute you say the DMA will stifle innovation and then the next you say nobody has the right to innovation on apple’s platform
Because they have a right to block companies from tools to improve connectivity if they want to innovate on iOS it sounds a bit like
cognitive dissonance here
Enough with this thinking, man. You know very well Bose doesn't have the leverage Apple has no matter what they do.
"you don't have the right to innovate with someone else's product" please elaborate because last time I checked no one builds up something out of thin air. We all use concepts built and tested by others. This is not a logical fallacy, end the 'vote with your wallet' thinking because for high tech those days have long passed. Silicon Valley is way too strong and they haven't necessarily became this influential because they produced "better products to run on an appliance".
Apple invented something and kept it for its own products. That’s how the market works. If you have to give inventions away for free there’s no incentive to invent anything.
Correct. The DMA reduces Apple’s incentive to innovate which will stifle innovation. No one is entitled to use Apple’s products to innovate. Those two ideas aren’t in conflict with each other.
No cognitive dissonance. Letting Bose use Apple’s invention to help headphones connect better does not increase innovation. Telling Apple they have to give their innovations away for free does chill innovation.
Ok, then work with Android. Android has 72% of the market! Run a big ad campaign “Works Better on Android!” Make Apple sweat.
Bose products still work fine on iOS. I use Bose headphones every day. Why do you think Bose get Apple’s connectivity innovations for free?
Property rights matter. Even intellectual property. You don’t have a right to use someone else’s property in a way that they don’t approve of.
The logical fallacies I’m referencing happened earlier in the thread (or maybe a different one, they all sort of run together). He was arguing that because (his definition of) innovation didn’t happen elsewhere, then that meant the DMA didn’t make it harder to innovate. (The False Cause Fallacy). He also often argues that correlation is proof of causation.
Android has 72% of the EU market. There is literally nothing stopping any accessory maker from creating a great experience on Android. And if how Apple runs its platform bothers you, then don’t reward Apple by buying into their ecosystem! If you’ve already bought in, then just switch.
"then work with Android" tell that to the guy who uses Apple hardware and now can't properly use Bose to its full potential because Apple said so, and so he buys a Samsung only to realize that he now needs to buy his favourite games once again. This is what makes corporations a bunch of *******s.
as for intellectual property, I see this almost always used with malicious intent. Especially when talking about companies with closed ecosystems like apple. Yes you're not entitled to another's work, but when you can't replicate that with a better alternative in practice because of costs higher than the GDP of mid-sized countries, well we have a problem. Working with Android as you say is only a bandaid.
I literally use Bose headphones every day. Would it be nice if they connected more easily to my Apple products? Absolutely. But they’re not broken, they perform better than AirPods in sound and microphone quality in my meetings, so I use them. Apple isn’t “preventing innovation” by not giving away their proprietary connection for free immediately after inventing it.
Apple is very clear what the deal is when you buy Apple products. I bought into Apple in large part because it’s a closed ecosystem, and I don’t think the government should be coming in and saying “sorry that’s not allowed anymore” when the OS with 72% market share is fully open.
You're losing me: you said you bought Bose headphones because they sound better than airpods, but you earlier mentioned that they should run ad campaigns that they sound better on android, which implies that if you had an Android phone, your Bose headphones would have been better as well?
but you can't switch to android because "Apple is a closed ecosystem and therefore good?"
it's a very dubious dynamic here, it feels like you can't have the best of both worlds because of corporate interests. And I don't think any government is dictating what Apple should be doing, they're just telling Apple to run their business within the limits of the law. And android is not fully open - AOSP is.
I said that, as an example, if not having access to a certain iOS feature that Apple offers to AirPods means that Bose headphones sound worse/don’t connect as easily/whatever, Bose should compete - make the headphones amazing on Android and show potential customers what Apple is preventing them from having. I think that would certainly promote innovation.
Instead, the approach promoted by many on here is to pass a law that says “Apple has to give its features to third parties”, which I think will result in fewer features for everyone.
For example, Bose made do with “crummy” Bluetooth pairing and never did anything to fix it - for decades. Neither did anyone responsible for the Bluetooth standard, or any other OS developer. Apple suddenly releases a new way to pair headphones and within a few years the EU declared Apple has to give that innovation to everyone because it’s “anti-competitive” not to.
And from hear on out, for any connectivity feature, that’s how it works in the EU. Apple doesn’t get a set period of exclusivity, they aren’t even allowed to run it IN BETA without giving others access, immediately, for free.
I think that’s absolutely going to reduce innovation. Why should Apple bother anymore?
I’m not (currently) going to switch to Android for a number of reasons, but if Apple was instituting policies I disagreed with, or someone was making an Android device that met my needs better than iOS, I’d have no qualms doing so.
The EU wrote a law that dictates what APIs Apple has to offer and says that if Apple offers “a hardware or software feature” access to it has to be given to third parties for free. That law doesn’t apply to any of Apple’s competitors; for example, because Samsung doesn’t make the OS the law doesn’t apply to them. Samsung is allowed to differentiate its products through software features and Apple is not. I think that is wrong on multiple levels.
You can download and install de-googled versions of Android if you want. Anyone can take Android and fork it. And Android competes with iOS heavily. I’m sure if Bose wanted to make a great pair of Android focused earbuds Google would jump at the chance. I’d argue that while “Android isn’t really open either” may be technically accurate, isn’t true in any practical sense.
A logical fallacy is a logical fallacy.
Having a list of “improvements” by multiple manufacturers claiming they outpace Apple is an opinion. And opinions are to be debated.
The issue is regarding the DMA and other things like software features first and things like foldable devices are this
Some individuals have a strong emotional connection with its users, particularly through its design and user experience. This can lead to a sense of brand loyalty and ownership, making criticism feel personal
When someone's identity is tied to a brand, criticism can trigger a defensive reaction, leading them to defend the brand and its products vigorously regardless if regulations or advancements by other companies first are correct.
How can Bose innovate on iOS if apple won’t allow them to
Please explain without mentioning go to android as we are talking about apple and iOS so how do companies do it if apple won’t allow them access to do it.
How can the DMA stifle innovation regarding connectivity on iOS if apple won’t allow other companies to try it in the first place so based on your logic it’s not this is the problem it’s that it’s targeting apple
I don’t live in the EU so this won’t affect me whatsoever as this is software related and all they have to do is disable it for the EU if they want.
The problem seems to be this When someone's identity is tied to a brand, criticism can trigger a defensive reaction, leading them to defend the brand and its products vigorously especially when individuals use the term if you don’t like it go to android
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It’s an interesting point you make and I think the actions of the EU should jar anyone when thinking about usual businesses.
Phone operating systems are not usual businesses!!! There are only two, the barriers to entry in this market place are huge, even Microsoft can’t get in on the action, they tried and failed.
Therefore supranational bodies have the duty to make sure there is no abuse of privilege.
Eg one App Store to rule them all is an absolutely abusive position to take. We’ve been downloading software onto our computers since the late nineties. It is ridiculous that we can’t do the same to iPhone that is 1,000,000 times more powerful.
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