Apple Says Spotify Wants 'Limitless Access' to App Store Tools Without Paying

[truthsteve]

There is nothing preventing Apple from charging a single developer something different than a corporate one

Ok? It's Apple's decision on how to run their App Store. They believe running $99/year at a loss can be offset by 30% cut.

Instead of $99 per year it could also be $99 per month.

And a large company can submit 200 updates in a month, clearly making $99/mo not enough.

"Charge $9/submission"

Then what if a developer like Facebook uses Apple Maps for their 1 billion customers?

"Charge $100 per 1 million users of Apple Maps"

The list goes on and on and on, making the developer program confusing, more expensive for indie developers, and less appealing to new devs.

Not a valid solution.

 

[truthsteve]

What are you talking about they pay a developer fee.

$99/year doesn't cut it lmao

Spotify submits more than 40 updates a year. Not even enough to cover app review expenses for Apple.

 

[truthsteve]

Apple controls the market on its platform.

So does Sony with Playstation
So does Microsoft with Xbox
So does Nintendo with Switch

They've been doing this before iOS App Store existed.

And?

 

[GroovyCatticus]

You started moving them.

How so? By pointing out the EU provides no competition to Apple/Google in smart phones?

I wonder why that is? Your education systems are far superior. Could be the smartest are coming to the US to work for Apple/Google 🤷🏻‍♂️

My wish for you is that the EU will someday produce a phone/ecosystem that fully embraces all of your requirements.

Until that day, I guess complaining here will have to do 😉

 

[truthsteve]

Yes, but a 30% cut is completely unacceptable. Always has been. The cut should depend on how much revenue an app generates & how many app downloads it has. It all needs a thorough modern rework.

No, it's acceptable considering Spotify has always been allowed to sell memberships outside the app if they really didn't want to pay 30%.

 

[truthsteve]

99.99% of developers are perfectly happy with the App Store fees.

I think you just *literally* agreed with me. 99.99% developers being happy and therefore Apple doesn't believe change is needed is the market speaking.

 

[MilaM]

Until that day, I guess complaining here will have to do 😉

Or waiting for the right laws to be passed 😜

 

[truthsteve]

it cost Apple literally pennies for those reviews. the vast majority are automated.

literally does not. every single submission is human checked (not thoroughly though)
I have analytics showing every single app submission is opened during "in review" status with session times ranging from 3 minutes to 95 minutes. I see selfies taken by app reviewers stored on my server lmao.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

I think you just *literally* agreed with me. 99.99% developers being happy and therefore Apple doesn't believe change is needed is the market speaking.

Then I misunderstood your point. My apologies 😂

 

[koil]

As if Apple could build a phone without China (Foxconn) or Taiwan (TSMC) 😂.

Not to mention that none of TSMC's high-end nodes (and by extension any of Apple's silicon) would exist without ASML from the Netherlands.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

Or waiting for the right laws to be passed 😜

“And the waiting is the hardest part” 🎶😭

 

[GroovyCatticus]

Not to mention that none of TSMC's high-end nodes (and by extension any of Apple's silicon) would exist without ASML from the Netherlands.

I wonder if TSMC and Apple go Dutch? 😂

 

[MilaM]

I wonder if TSMC and Apple go Dutch? 😂

I don't know about that, but I read that US multinationals are very fond of the Dutch Sandwich. Not sure if there is a connection there.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

I don't know about that, but I read that US multinationals are very fond of the Dutch Sandwich. Not sure if there is a connection there.

Sounds pretty taxing 😅

 

[I7guy]

Yes, yes. We already established that you're not a fan consumer protection laws. The market will solve all our problems, sure.

See you still are getting it wrong. I am a fan of protecting our water, food and finances. Things you have no recourse on and can affect society and are out of your control and / or can harm you physically or financially.

App stores? Well you have two weeks to return your device if it doesnt meet your requirements.

 

[tobybrut]

My wish for you is that the EU will someday produce a phone/ecosystem that fully embraces all of your requirements.

Until that day, I guess complaining here will have to do 😉

If anyone remembers, Finnish company Nokia used to produce phones running Symbian. Their claim to fame were excellent professional quality cameras. They were probably the only notable European cell phone maker. I have a programmer friend who still works for Nokia based out of the UK. Nokia around 2011 abandoned Symbian to go with Windows Mobile but ended up leaving the market for good in 2013, selling its phone division to Microsoft, which also eventually left the market, unable to compete with iOS and Android. Nokia tried, but they failed to innovate and lost the cell phone war with its CEO lamenting Symbian looked and felt obsolete. They’re still heavily involved in cellular infrastructure on the carrier side of things.

A post for those who like to reminisce.

 

[MilaM]

A post for those who like to reminisce.

I had many Nokia phones before I switched to the iPhone. The hardware was great, but the software part just could not keep up with the new zeitgeist.

Maybe one day Apple will have it's Nokia/Kodak moment. Who knows.

I would switch again today, if there was a halfway decent competing phone company on the horizon. But I don't see that happening anytime soon. Apple and Google are too entrenched in this market.

 

[ginkobiloba]

Apple keeps lying to defend their entitled and monopolistic behavior.

It's completely false that Spotify pays Apple nothing. Just like other developers, Spotify pays a yearly fee for the Developer Program, which according to Apple includes "all the tools, resources, and support you need to create and deliver software to over a billion customers around the world on Apple platforms"

You know the yearly fee is just 100$ a year for the dev tools, right ? Are you saying that Spotify and Daniel Ek ( one of the richest people in Europe, mainly because Spotify is the lowest paying platform for artists) can’t afford 100 freaking dollars a year while generating billions ???

i mean..even Spotify‘s PR are rolling on the floor laughing at your statement..

 

[koil]

If anyone remembers, Finnish company Nokia used to produce phones running Symbian. Their claim to fame were excellent professional quality cameras. They were probably the only notable European cell phone maker.

Ericsson: "am I a joke to you?"

 

[tehabe]

Not a valid solution.

Just because you don't understand the solution doesn't make it invalid, also I don't care how Apple runs their store and I don't care if they make money with it or not. It is neither Spotify's nor my job to care. Also that Apple reviews every update is Apple's decision.

 

[tehabe]

The hardware was great, but the software part just could not keep up with the new zeitgeist.

The Nokia N9 was amazing, but the software came too late.

 

[DJ_Envo]

An earlier post indicated that Apple paid artists 3x what Spotify pays them per stream, so, assuming that is correct and even if it isn’t as much as you feel the artists deserve, it seems a fairly easy estimate to say Apple is about 3x better in that regard. If you don’t acknowledge the difference, you shouldn’t expect change, as 300% is a dramatic difference. (And this is another of the reasons Spotify seems hypocritical to me on this issue.)

While that's true, it's still just bits and bites. Spotify's revenue share is around $0.0033 /plays, Apple Music is around $0.01 /plays. While I feel honoured by this endless grace of Apple (sarcasm intended), i don't see a real difference at the end of the day.

Tidal pays even more with 0.013, but c'mon, until you aren't someone prominent who's got millions of play every day, these numbers are basically equals to zero, and I'm happy when a fiscal year is coming out with net zero because i have to pay for the distributor as well to keep my stuff on these storefronts.

You know it's easy to say that XY is better because of doing Z thing a bit better, but the real problem lies in the business model of these services, not in the companies.

 

[derekamoss]

Spotify pays artists 1/3 of what Apple does.

View attachment 2352108

and due to the amount of Subscribers Spotify has over Apple music the Artists are making a lot more from spotify. Trust me if Apple Music had begun when spotify did and had the same number of people, Apple would be paying the same or probably less...

Apple isnt being Nice here, they are doing it because they have to too be able to get artists on their platform. Spotify being first and having such a huge subscriber base probably locked that number down at the beginning and doesnt have to negotiate fees where as once new players came in the artists realized they could negotiate a higher fee if they wanted them on their platform.

The only Artist making less money on Spotify is an indie artist with like 5 streams on apple and 1 on spotify because otherwise the amount of streams per song on spotify is easily 10x the amount streams are happening on Apple just due to the massive user base.

 

[bgillander]

While that's true, it's still just bits and bites. Spotify's revenue share is around $0.0033 /plays, Apple Music is around $0.01 /plays. While I feel honoured by this endless grace of Apple (sarcasm intended), i don't see a real difference at the end of the day.

Tidal pays even more with 0.013, but c'mon, until you aren't someone prominent who's got millions of play every day, these numbers are basically equals to zero, and I'm happy when a fiscal year is coming out with net zero because i have to pay for the distributor as well to keep my stuff on these storefronts.

You know it's easy to say that XY is better because of doing Z thing a bit better, but the real problem lies in the business model of these services, not in the companies.

I don't disagree about issues with the model, as I prefer to own my music, but everyone else seems to want a rental model. That said, most of the best musicians I have seen have not made much cash, and music is not a great business to go into if you want to make money. Starving artist is a term for a reason, and streaming might give you more chance at exposure than the radio, but it probably doesn't give you much more chance at making money.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

and due to the amount of Subscribers Spotify has over Apple music the Artists are making a lot more from spotify. Trust me if Apple Music had begun when spotify did and had the same number of people, Apple would be paying the same or probably less...

People really don't understand that this is, at least in part, due to Spotify having a much bigger subscriber base.