Ah the old ‘selective quote’ taking what I said out of context in order to move the goal posts. Excellent.
PS. You can buy games for those machines in other places.
PPS. They’re gaming consoles not computers.
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Apple Says Spotify Wants 'Limitless Access' to App Store Tools Without Paying
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PS. You can buy games for those machines in other places.
PPS. They’re gaming consoles not computers.
Yes, but it’s Apple’s orders that allow them to invest billions it takes to get a new node production up and running. We just saw this with the 3nm node development. It was Apples massive order that gave them a viable business model to spend the billions in Capital expenditures to build it out. We saw other OEMs pull out of N3B, but only because in the tooling process TSMC discovered it wouldn’t scale. It was that R&D that allowed for N3E to become the production basis of all the 3nm chips that are now coming to the market.
What that means is that Apple isn’t merely a “buy off the shelves” customer for TSMC, they’re an active *partner* in scaling up the technologies that the rest of the industry then uses. If Apple pulled their investment when everyone else did during the pandemic slowdowns, TSMC’s 3nm node production likely wouldn’t be online today. They would have had to wait for enough demand to justify the *enormous* (billions of dollars) Capital expenditures required to build a new chip fab.
I’m a bit leary of a world where we identify Apple and Google as monopolists, but we treat the fact that ASML has a literally monopoly on the EUV technology that our modern world is being built upon, but that’s for another day.
Apple gives you some access. You knew the limits before purchase, surely?
If it is causing you that much grief, why not move to Android and do whatever you like without those limits?
You have a solution that works. Waiting for you.
I understood perfectly. maybe it's you who didn't understand.
nope.
perfectly well within context. you talked about controlling the market in platforms. I listed more platforms. you apply one requirement to one platform but not others. plain and simple
you do know Sony controls what is approved on the platform regardless of where the games are sold, right? right.
FYI Sony still takes a cut even if the game was sold at Best Buy. your point?
FYI pt 2: epic sold Fortnite game cards at Best Buy which once redeemed can be used in iOS' version of Fortnite. same with Microsoft selling office 365 cards at Best Buy and being able to use the software on iOS, bypassing Apple's cut. again, your point?
ah moving goal posts 🤣
no don't look at gaming platforms! just computer platforms!
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And you think buying a physical game means nothing flows back to the console maker?
They licence access to these devices.
You cant walk into a physical store and buy software they haevnt approved (and get money from).
Unless its a shady pirate shop in Hong Kong who will mod your device as well
And scream as much as you want about alternative software routes, the overheads are way worse that 15-30% you pay Apple. As some software devs here stated many many times, they love the app store and dont begrudge Apple 15-30% because physcial stores would often return them only 20% of ticket price. Retail distribution never rewards the producer of the goods anywhere near the ticket price.
Those complaining about Apple charging $99 a year obviously werent around when people paid considerably more for compilers and other dev tools they now get for free.
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Around 2003, my company would pay $3000 per year per "seat" (user) for software development tools. That would be $5000 a seat in 2024 dollars.
It doesn’t matter to me that Apple charges to be on their platform. It’s their platform, it’s up to them. It’s not a bad deal for devs. What matters to me is that it’s the only way to get things on to your phone. They take arbitrary moral high grounds, they cut access to apps on whims or commands, they fully control what I do with my phone. Sure, I can use the web, but guess what - they control access to that too. They bully and they take, but they give very very little. And when finally commanded to give due to government intervention, they do so with frankly embarrassing malicious compliance.
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As a long-time Windows developer, I can remember MSDN (Microsoft Developer Network), the equivalent of Apple’s developer program. To get access to anything beyond the basic Visual Studio Community version, you had to buy annual subscriptions to MSDN that cost around $2,000/year give or take depending on level. I haven’t checked prices lately since I’ve been retired for a few years. The base level gave you only the operating systems to test with. It was dreadfully expensive, something no one who isn’t a developer would ever buy. Meanwhile Apple’s is so dirt cheap, everyone seems to be a member despite very few actually being developers, seeing as so many here seems to install the betas as soon they get released. I’ve kept mine for old time’s sake when I wrote a few iOS/iPadOS programs.
People think everything is free or cheap these days.
I supported a healthcare IT project.
The desktop licence was $5500 each. They werent tied to a user. Just concurrent use.
The phone app was $100 each. Just needed a valid password to work.
But to users, it didnt seem to cost anything.
Only when they tried to log in and couldnt because all the licences were in use... most of them logged in and didnt log out when not actively using the program so I would spend time finding those people hogging multiple licences or squatting on them. There wasn't even a boot tool for us to use as they changed to AWS and there were complications that caused...
Every time we wanted a software feature added, the company would require payment up front. And then take months to implement it. Then sell it on as optional extras to other customers. Way to take multiple bites of the cherry!
Even the support team there complained they should spend a year fixing known issues rather than adding more features few wanted. The data structures couldnt handle legislation changes very well so workarounds became more and more convoluted. Rostering rules were so hit and miss that few managers could action them themselves (which was meant to be a time/cost saver for the company). Usually caused more headaches for the support team.
Software dev isnt easy.
We are lucky that we have cheap/free tools now.
Hardware is almost disposable as well. We never buy new hardware with the "you can upgrade bits later on" promise.
So many small online businesses handle orders, stock, sales pages, carts and payment on their own or using small teams. If it costs them to do it all, it's still cheaper than building and maintaining it themselves. They know their business not IT. The IT part is just a tool now.
So buy an Android and sideload your little heart out.
Not sure what it is you think you’re missing on iOS (besides some moral victory), but you do you!
This argument is so crazy.
I can't imagine why we wouldn't want Apple to open the iOS so that you can install apps from anywhere, just like on the Mac. They can still have the App Store, and that's what most people would use, but why wouldn't it a good thing to allow side-loaded apps?
Whenever I try to decide if I should change something, one thing I like to do is think, if I were doing it that way now, would I change it to way I'm currently doing it?
So, if the iPhone had always allowed side-loaded Apps and not charged for digital goods in Apps, would you be happy if they changed it to the way it is now?
I can't imagine why we wouldn't want Apple to open the iOS so that you can install apps from anywhere, just like on the Mac. They can still have the App Store, and that's what most people would use, but why wouldn't it a good thing to allow side-loaded apps?
Whenever I try to decide if I should change something, one thing I like to do is think, if I were doing it that way now, would I change it to way I'm currently doing it?
So, if the iPhone had always allowed side-loaded Apps and not charged for digital goods in Apps, would you be happy if they changed it to the way it is now?
But android sucks! Why is it wrong to wish that the best option was even better?
And I think the point is we don't know what we could be missing, compared to the reality where the iPhone had an open app ecosystem from the beginning.
So what exactly is the difference between a gaming console and a computer again?
And wasn't it so long ago that people were complaining that iOS devices like the ipad were not "a real computer"?
That's precisely the point - android sucks, and your solution for making iOS "better" is to make it more like android?
For example, developers have come on board stating that they see a larger incidence of piracy on android compared to iOS. One reason (I believe) for more developers favouring iOS is that they get to earn more money, and one factor contributing to this is that it's way harder to pirate apps on iOS. Meaning that people who want an app on iOS usually need to pay for it, vs simply sideloading an APK onto their android device.
Making iOS open right from the start could have made the iOS app ecosystem far less vibrant, with developers less willing to release apps if they felt that there wasn't money to be made.
I am what I am not missing, simply by looking at the train wreck that is the google play store. It makes way less money for Google, and it's clearly influenced Google's decision to maintain it, as evidenced by the sheer quantity and variety of malware that really puts the odd "scam" app on iOS in its proper perspective - that while both app stores have their share of issues and challenges, the iOS App Store is clearly safer and far better maintained by a wide mile.
Things would be different, but I am not convinced they would be better.
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The way it is now = best phones, most advanced OS and APIs, best apps.
Do you think all that would be the case if Apple allowed side-loading and easy piracy?
So why does Android suck?
It's offering you all the things you are asking for: alt stores, sideloading.
Finding it insane all the complaining about how bad and nasty Apple is, yet at the same time insisting on being part of it.
I don’t get it… you know why I find kinda not so nice to use? Windows. So you know what I do? I DONT USE WINDOWS (99% of the time). I don’t go to the WindowsRumors equivalent and start complaining or start throwing lawsuits so that windows becomes what isn’t meant to be.
People rave about Linux, understandable as it’s efficient, stable, etc… but I’m not a server, I’m not on 24/7, I’m a human and prefer the most user friendly less convoluted offer of an OS.
I don’t go to Toyota asking them to make Hondas. In fact, I don’t use cars 340 days of the year, so I let the cars and cars manufacturers be.
What’s up with the last years wanting to bend everything to their will? What’s wrong with just going with what’s already offering what you are looking for whether you are a business, a user or a bureaucrat of the EU?
I don’t get it… you know why I find kinda not so nice to use? Windows. So you know what I do? I DONT USE WINDOWS (99% of the time). I don’t go to the WindowsRumors equivalent and start complaining or start throwing lawsuits so that windows becomes what isn’t meant to be.
People rave about Linux, understandable as it’s efficient, stable, etc… but I’m not a server, I’m not on 24/7, I’m a human and prefer the most user friendly less convoluted offer of an OS.
I don’t go to Toyota asking them to make Hondas. In fact, I don’t use cars 340 days of the year, so I let the cars and cars manufacturers be.
What’s up with the last years wanting to bend everything to their will? What’s wrong with just going with what’s already offering what you are looking for whether you are a business, a user or a bureaucrat of the EU?
You wont get a straight answer for why the complaining is happening.
It's not the app devs who are making a good living.
It's the big companies who think they should get a free ride.
And a vocal minority who want to install software (probably pirated).
THey have a solution, repeatedly made: go buy and Android device if that's what you want.
I dont buy a truck when I only want a town car to park easily.
Buy the right tool for the right job...
My mom installs every free app she finds on her Mac, then it stops working & she has to take it in to Apple so they can remove almost all the freeware & get her Mac working again. Strangely it’s never been an issue on her iPhone… 👍🏻
Welcome to MacRumors forums, where haters come to hate… 😉
Doesnt Spotify only pay when you have more than 1000 streams?
It would be interesting for music listeners to know all the payment details of the contracts.
Taylor Swift is in Australia currently.
Didnt she talk to Apple and get them to increase their payments?
It would be interesting to see what percent of each subscription goes back to artists each month.
Sure some people listen 24/7 while others are more casual. These are the people Streamers love.
What you don't realize is those people complaining, like me and still come to Macrumors is that we joined Macrumors when MacOS was still called OS X and the only product they had that started with iP was iPod, not iPhone. We were the ones that actually kept Apple afloat when they almost went bankrupt. We have seen Apple go from the underdog into the business type they used to mock. And it's really not Apple we are complaining about, it's Tim Cook and I say that as a hypocrite who has made a lot of money off Apple, considering I talked my dad who worked for Merril Lynch, who thought I was insane at the time, to put $500 dollars into Apple stock in 2002 as my high school graduation gift.
Which totally explains why so many of the complaints sound like they are coming from jealous, jilted ex-lovers who just can't let go.
The simple fact of the matter is that Apple is a fundamentally different company than it used to be. It was always inevitable. Apple was a company that living on the edge, metaphorically couch surfing. Its existence buoyed by a small population of die-hard fans that looked to it for technology and aesthetic leadership. It had a flock, and that was its sustenance.
Today, Apple's current user base and investor loyalty is far more grounded in pragmatic self interest. For this user base, it’s a combination of their understanding of Apple products as “good products” and “cool products”, their understanding of the Apple brand as a trustworthy, fashionable, quality, desirable brand. For investors, it’s the typical investor mix - some mix of growth-oriented investment and revenue-oriented (i.e. dividend-oriented) investment.
This is the kind of loyalty most companies have to work with. It’s not as strong as the kind of identity and conviction-based loyalty that sustained the company through its dark days. Apple's user base isn't a flock anymore. It can’t be led like it used to. The company that could once forge ahead with drastic decisions, relatively assured that its user base would follow, cannot make that assumption anymore.
Instead of leading a flock, it now has to cater to an audience. This is a drastically different relationship. In this new reality, that original core user and investor base ... those true believers ... the truth is that you all just don’t matter anymore. You got to enjoy the ride from the start, but now your secluded island has been inundated by a population of visitors that outnumbers them by a couple of orders of magnitude.
This new population sets the tone for what kind of company Apple will be, because they have the power in this new relationship, not you.
Has Apple “lost its way”? Apple has slowly been transitioning into a much more traditional company, and its behaviour has started to match those of a traditional company’s behaviour. If you want to consider that as them "losing their way", then yeah.
I wouldn’t call it “losing their way”, though. Circumstances changed, and the company changed, and that’s just the way she goes.