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Apple Says Third-Generation Keyboards Exclusive to 2018 MacBook Pro
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We hope that no hardware would fail but if the keyboard or display failed, at least we can use an external keyboard and monitor though it is an inconvenience until is repaired or replaced.
Not everyone who is looking to buy a Mac are on any Apple forum. Just last week I was at the Apple store and saw a 2015 MBP on display. If I didn't know any better, they could have sold me or another unsuspecting customer a 2015 model and paid the same price for the current model.Always check the macrumors buyers guide. MacBook Pros were overdue for an update. Even though this update came without warning, it was not a surprise by any means.
Before you go the XPS 15 route, might want to look on the Dell subreddit and elsewhere, and read about how people are having to re-paste and undervolt to avoid some major thermal issues. No manufacturer seems immune from problems inherent to making ultrabooks.
Of course, it's also Windows, so there's that.
Looking forward to reading your feedback after you get it back.
I have a long history with Apple and I would say that Apple Care provides mixed results depending on your problem. Four quick examples:
1. My hard drive in my BlackBook (2008 MB) died. They sent me a new one, which I installed, and mailed the defective one back to them. Simple. Excellent service with no hassles and I was able to fix the problem without having to travel one hour to the nearest Apple Store. I miss the days when Macs could be repaired/upgraded by the user.
2. When my MBA had a stuck key, even though the AppleCare had just expired, the Genius at the Bar looked at it and found a pencil led stuck under a key. He was able to remove it and kindly did not charge me for the service.
3. Apple was initially denying iPhone repairs if the water sensor was tripped; however, it became known that keeping an iPhone in the bathroom while showering or in a humid environment could trip the sensor. This was the result of where Apple placed the sensor, yet Apple blamed the user for its design issue. It took pressure on Apple before they relented and covered iPhone issues.
4. The iPhone 6 and 6 Plus had a serious design defect which resulted in a high likelihood they would bend and cause the phone to fail. Recent documents show Apple knew this before they sold the phone, yet when the problem became public Apple blamed the end user and claimed the problem had only affected 9 users! All of Apple's blind adherents defended Apple and attacked fellow Apple users and Apple's only remedy for its design defect was to charge the end user to repair their defect! I had AppleCare. Although Apple replaced my iPhone 6 Plus four out of six visits for problems, they minimized my complaints and each replacement was worse than the iPhone it replaced, i.e. it always had problems.
For those who have to send in for keyboard repair, hopefully you won't experience the issue again since it will be another inconvenience. It's too bad Apple won't replace it with the new gen keyboard.
All Apple said is the replacement isn’t the 3rd gen keyboard. it’s entirely possible the previous keyboard was tweaked without Apple saying anything.
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What is your source for this since your passing it off as fact?
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Actually we don’t know the source of the problem. And we don’t know if replacement keyboards fix the problem. Only Apple knows.
"Hopefully, in that case, it means that Apple has quietly tweaked the second-generation keyboard to be more reliable. It wouldn't really make sense for Apple to replace keyboards with ones that are just as prone to break again, especially if the third-generation keyboards offer a fix."
Quietly tweaked? This sounds like the incorrect assessments of the iPhone 4 antenna and iPhone 6 case all over again. There were so many people on the internet that were convinced there was some sort of design flaw that needed to be corrected in both of those situations and all sorts of predictions of covert changes to the manufacturing of those models going forward. But it never happened. Because there was no design flaw. Apple did improve their antenna design and case designs in future models, but it wasn't limited to the model immediately following the one people thought was "flawed".
Quietly tweaked? This sounds like the incorrect assessments of the iPhone 4 antenna and iPhone 6 case all over again. There were so many people on the internet that were convinced there was some sort of design flaw that needed to be corrected in both of those situations and all sorts of predictions of covert changes to the manufacturing of those models going forward. But it never happened. Because there was no design flaw. Apple did improve their antenna design and case designs in future models, but it wasn't limited to the model immediately following the one people thought was "flawed".
If they said that the replacement would be with the gen 3 keyboard, their support would be flooded by customers wanting to have their keyboards replaced. The rules as to which "defective" keyboard qualifies for a replacement appears to be somewhat subjective so it makes sense that they wouldn't advertise this.
Please update me, got my 2016 replaced w/a 2017 keyboard the day before these new machines came out. Now speaking to a senior advisor about my doubts in the 2017 keyboard considering the new 3rd gen. I will update you on what happens as they have my machine at the depot right now.
Completely false. Apple provided videos of their testing regimen for the iPhone 6 cases, the industry standard number for the three point bend of the case, and the specific three point bend numbers for the iPhone 6 models. They were well within the standard. Was it the best in the industry at that time? No, but it wasn't deficient.
Please let us know how this turns out!
Hmmm. So when you send your Mac in to Apple for a week, with what are you using that external keyboard?
There are plenty of breakdowns on the web explaining the design defects, from the keyboard design to the poor / intentional design of the top case.
How much do you get paid to constantly defend Apple?
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Recent documents revealed Apple knew the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus would bend easily due to the choice of Aluminum for the case and due to the internal structural design. Both issues were remedied with the 6S.
BTW, according to its own documents, Apple knew the 6 Plus would bend 7.2x more easily than the 5S; yet Apple claimed it was more robust than the 5S. [Edit: Apple lied about the 6 and 6 Plus. Fact. Period.] Please stop contradicting facts.
[Edit: Please link to the industry standard]
You and Rogifan make quite a pair. Work together? [Edit: I love blind Apple loyalists.]
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Just got my original 12" Retina MacBook keyboard replacement done. My keys have been on and off over the years...thankfully it isn't my main laptop so I put up with it. When I took it in last week the only key at the time that was really feeling bad was the space bar but I told the service place that the sticky keys have moved around over the years. Thankfully the guy said..."don't worry we will replace the entire top case as I don't get paid if I just replace one key". This isn't an Apple Store, just an authorized repair store. The good news is this new keyboard is feeling really, really good....but time will tell....I suppose this is the 2nd gen keyboard that would be on a current 12" rMB....the 1st gen was pretty bad...I glad to have this free fix that was done back in my hands in 3 days turnaround. When I picked mine up they said they were starting to get about 3-4 keyboard replacement drop offs per day now.
And here's the gigantic logical flaw for both the iPhone 6 case AND the 2nd gen butterfly keyboard: a statistical increase doesn't actually mean the design is deficient due to the fact that the size of the increase can still be well within industry standards. Was the iPhone 6 case more susceptible to bending than the 5s? Yes. Did that increase in susceptibility mean that there was a design flaw? No. Both the 6 and 6 Plus had three point bend ratings that were within the industry standard at the time. IMO, this is also the most likely scenario for the 2nd gen butterfly keyboard as well. Number of keyboard related repairs may be up, but overall it's still well within industry standards.
I’ve seen anecdotal stories from Rene Ritchie and others that more recent purchases don’t seem to be having issues and Marco Arment claims the 2017 keyboards were tweaked (though I don’t think he has inside information, just speculating). If John Gruber’s rumor about the issue being a bad metal alloy in one of the parts I’m assuming that is something Apple could have fixed without needing a new generation of keyboard. Just swap out the bad metal part for the new one. Having said that Apple is doing itself no favors by being so cagey about this, even if it is for legal reasons.
Only famous people? Plenty of people here on MR alone have reported the issue. Are they all famous? I’ve seen it myself infrequently with mine. I assure you I’m very much a nobody.
How about Apple’s own repair program? They launch them when there are actual issues, like they have with GPUs.
Some third-party data saying there’s an increased number of issues compared to old models.
https://iphone.appleinsider.com/art...s-failing-twice-as-frequently-as-older-models
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Then you no longer have a laptop, but a desktop. Unless you have bad luck with getting a dud, or have a model with a ticking time bomb GPU or keyboard, you won’t generally have any hardware failures that soon.
That increase is largely meaningless in terms of assessing whether there's an actual flaw or not. AppleInsider can't supply the overall percentage of customers that needed keyboard service or a breakdown of what the actual types of service consisted of. They also have said they have no idea what the industry standard would be for keyboard related repairs either, which is one of the flimsiest aspects of this controversy. How can you say Apple's increase = unreliability when you have no way of knowing how often other manufacturers have to repair their own keyboards?
That’s actually bringing it closer to the MBP for all the Mac loving people. When thermal throttled to about 70% of the core clock, the GTX 1050 performs similar to the “upgraded” 560 in the MBP
given the 560 doesn’t throttle, mind youInteresting you say that, friend of ours recently purchased a macbook pro at the apple store, took home the 2015 model because it was more pleasant to the eyes - paid for 3-4 year old technology not knowing. But are very satisfied. Anything I sort of said about models and years went over their head anyway.
I was about to switch from windows to mac a month ago due to recent privacy concerns.
Then this keyboard news came out, got a high spec pc instead.
Kinda glad, but also disappointed with Apple on this.
Unlike PC users, with macbook you are essentially stuck with them, with limited models which all had the same problem...
Then this keyboard news came out, got a high spec pc instead.
Kinda glad, but also disappointed with Apple on this.
Unlike PC users, with macbook you are essentially stuck with them, with limited models which all had the same problem...
You're right. As it was written, I did represent it as fact instead of what it was; my opinion. I edited my comment to clarify. So to be clear, it's my opinion that the defect is in the design and any replacement using that same keyboard is replacing a damaged defective keyboard with a defective keyboard with the potential for the same damage. I think it's one of the reasons we've seen anecdotes of people having multiple replacements.