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You mean the devices that have removable screens or swing arms to allow you to actually get the display into an ergonomic position? Yea, the fact that they have to do that really tells you everything about the ergonomics of vertical touchscreens. ;)

Yes, like a Cintiq - you now those things we been plugging into MACs Since 2007. Thing is, now not only are they all in one - I can also do it on a 2.98lb 13 inch laptop on my flight.
 
The keyboard is fine, i have no beef with it. I even like the one on the 12 inch macbook. I'm just saying that that the touch bar is ridiculous when many of us are waiting for osx in ipad pro form. For Windows devices this is already a reality, has been for a long time, the only thing apple needs is the ipad to run osx. Why not just sell two models of the ipad, the pro with osx and the non pro with ios. That would be nice. Instead they spend two years working on, what I consider to be, a gimmick.

A touch screen on a PC or laptop is of limited value to the general public. I'm not at all saying useless, but Apple has determined that it just isn't either worth their time/effort to make a touch-enabled MacOS product and/or they feel it would compromise the overall user experience. That is not to say that something like the Surface Studio isn't EXACTLY what some professionals need. It is. It most definitely and beautifully is. But as much as I like the notion of versatility in a computer, being honest with myself, I don't have much use for it. I'm not a drafter or artist. I have NEVER found touching a notebook or desktop screen was more effective than using a trackpad or mouse. It's an ergonomic mess. That is why the Touchbar is so potentially useful. It is right there where I keep my hands already. That's value added for the average user.

If you need a very large touch-enabled screen, you're going to want either an iPad Pro 12" or else a Surface Studio.
 
Who decided it is a niche..... PC manufacturer surely don't think so ;)

Already addressed this. Windows users might have benefits because they don't have a good experience with Touchpads. Mac touchpads, on the other hand, do everything a touchscreen does, but with better ergonomics. The only exception is precision drawing with auxiliary input devices such as a pressure sensitive pen.
 
Touchscreen versus MacBook Pro TouchPad

Advantages:
(1) precision drawing with auxiliary input devices (such as a pressure sensitive pen)

And for people like me, that advantage would be HUGE.

I don't want to operate my desktop or laptop in touchscreen mode all the time, I don't want to get fingerprints all over it and I like the precision of a keyboard/ trackpad/mouse.

But...being able to lower a 28" monitor down to a 20 degree angle and draw on it with an Apple Pencil... (like MS Studio)

and being able to pull off the screen of my MacBook Pro while it continues to run Photoshop and draw on it like a tablet... (like Surface Book)....

I would certainly find those capabilities both "useful" and "appropriate" Mr Ive.

My dream computer right now is a MS Studio running OS X.
 
I think different.

Then you have fallen right into Apple's trap.. :D

250px-Apple_logo_Think_Different_vectorized.svg.png
 
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It is an ergonomic mess
Ugh it runs a crappy os
Touchscreen are useless on a computer
Apps are not designed for touch
Who wants to deal with cleaning the screen
and many more...


Than Apple does the same thing and..

WOW this is innovation!!

You can tell me what you want, but the issue here is that since it sin't Apple is not good. Ahh it fells nice to be in the 90s again!

Come and you'll see why 2016 won't be like 2016.....but like 1990!!!
 
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I think its more that they don't want to impact iPad sales negatively, since those sales have been decreasing anyways.

Here's the real problem: Tim has the direction of computing wrong. He's ignoring the reason for falling iPad sales, and the fact that no matter how hard he pushes iPad as a Mac replacement, the market is saying the opposite. He's further trying to force his substitution idea by raising Mac prices. In other words, what he can't get with product market demand, he's attempting to manipulating with price points. The big question is why?

The answer might be found in what Cook is NOT saying. Why force iPads down the throats of Mac users? And why shouldn't iPad & Mac co-exist as supporting bridges in the eco-system?

The fundamental rules of capitalism apply in the message Tim is sending. Price increases create less demand. So Tim is really saying, don't buy a new Mac, get an iPad Pro instead. This is stupid and clearly not working as sales continue to fall.

The future of computing has always been in shrinking powerful machines while maintaining or increasing their capabilities. The new overpriced, neutered Mac's are not the future of computing. They are icons of the direction Tim is taking Apple without explaining it with words.

At some point, some company is going to introduce a truly revolutionary laptop that ditches batteries in favor of solar power, runs a full & customizable OS, and can support both legacy wired and wireless peripherals. I don't think that device will come from Tim Cook's Apple.
 
Why are they pressing Ive about touch screens? Why not ask if they could be "uncompromising" about the option to allow 32 gigs of RAM and possibly sacrifice "thin-ness" .. you know a feature that no percent of us actually care about ... :confused:
 
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Laptops with touchscreens are extremely useful. Ask any Surface Book or any other touchscreen laptop owner. None of them would ever go back to a laptop without touchscreen. And a touchscreen is a hell of a lot more useful than a Touch Bar.

I've had a Surface Pro, a Surface Pro 2 and have currently got a Surface Book. I hardly use the touch screen because a) it's a pain to reach up to it and b) the screen wobbles when you push on it.

I've also got a MacBook and never miss the lack of touchscreen when I'm using it

I'm sure some people love the touch screen, but you can't make sweeping generalisations that "None of them would ever go back", because it's simply not true ;)
 
You haven't used the touch bar yet.

Nobody here has, and nobody has used that Microsoft touch computer either yet people will tell you that one is better than the other time and time again until they're blue in the face.

Yet they've used neither.

Amazing really.
 
How did so many people in this thread already get their Touch Bar MBPs?

No one. Not that it does matter. The real issue is not TouchBar vs Touchscreen. It is TouchPad vs Touchscreen. These are the two input devices that should be compared. TouchBar is keyboard replacement. Not a mouse/point replacement.
 
I understand Apple wanting to innovate and go in another direction. Being late to the touchscreen party they would just look like copycats and time will tell how well this new direction works out. Personally, I like touchscreens. I've used some of the Windows 10 touchscreen notebooks and found it very intuitive. Not sure I would like looking at the touchbar, then back to the screen and then to the touchbar, but not having used one of the new Macs I'm only speculating.
 
TouchBar is keyboard replacement. Not a mouse/point replacement.
Apple begs to differ...did you see the keynote??

Are you telling me that djay demo was to show off keyboard replacement or a FinalCut demo was to demostrate that?
 
I fully agree with Jony and Apple on this. Adding to what others have said about the OS not being designed for touch and screen cleanliness etc. Having to stretch over the keyboard (surely this would still be there on a touch screen Mac) and hover your arm in the air, whilst touching the screen, would eventually cause discomfort and pain too.
 
Innovation passing Apple by.. Maybe it's time to clear house... but then who would make all of the aluminium housings...
________________________________________
This is going to be a bad Christmas season....most people use their lap tops for email, internet and music...when DELL and other have sub $900 products...prices on Apple's new products are going to look just silly and the feature of touch screen on Windows is going to sell....Apple does NO marketing research at all...to find out what people will pay for their product.......that is pure Arrogance at best.
 
I don't think he wants MacOS on an iPad, just something a lot more capable and powerful than iOS. iPad needs its own operating system, in between the phone and a laptop. iOS is good for simple tasks on a phone, not much else.
I'm not disputing that at all, I'm wondering why MacOS needs touch input outside of it being a "me too" approach.
 
You hold your iPad on the screen. The MacBook rests on the table, on your lap, or on the side of the bed. People don't hold their MacBooks by the screen.
Different devices have different ergonomics.

There are PC touch screen laptops where you fold the keyboard back and it becomes a large tablet. Or you rotate the screen and flip it, or pull the screen off and rotate it, etc.. If there was a touch screen MBP that you can flip the keyboard back then you could have something like a portable Surface Studio (or like many other of the PC 2-in-1's). This would be nice especially with Apple's fixation on thinness (even if it would have to get a bit thicker to support the screen).

Besides, as others have stated, Apple does have their keyboard for the iPad Pro. You hold your iPad yet here they introduced a keyboard for it which requires it to be resting on a table, your lap or on the side of the bed. And, because there's no trackpad or mouse support you're forced to touch the screen, whereas with a touch screen laptop, you still have the option to use the trackpad.
 
Yes touch screen on a traditional laptop format does not work very well, but that's where you can (and where Microsoft did) innovate. If the screen can be detached, or be lowered to the desktop, then it becomes extremely useful and much more intuitive than the touch bar thing.
 
Touch screens work well and make a lot of sense when you can hold the screen (i.e. a tablet) in your hands (with arms on your legs sitting in a chair, on the edge of a table, etc) . Or, when it's propped up in a case/cover on a table at a shallow angle and your hands and arms are already in close proximity to the screen with your wrists on a table supporting your the weight of your hands. That's not fatiguing, your hands are supported, rather than being held up in air and under the effect of gravity.

A touch screen on a laptop, however, with the screen oriented at a slight off-vertical angle useful for typing with hands normally typing on the keyboard, then becomes fatiguing when you need to raise your hands to interface with the screen, but with nothing to support their weight. That's very fatiguing.

The Studio Surface addresses some of that, when it rests at a shallow angle on the table, with your arm/elbows on the table supporting your arm's/hand's weight while you draw. That works well when you want to do a lot of drawing. However, when you need to type, such as interacting with a web page, forum, writing a document, that shallow screen angle doesn't work well - and that's also fatiguing. The display needs to be flipped back up off-vertical.

What works for me is having the best of both worlds. A lightweight tablet and a lightweight laptop. I would not want a compromised and heavier underpowered hybrid.

As an aside, I'm astonished how so many people here do not have imagination being able to fathom or think outside the box a bit on how Apple's touch bar would be able to offer excellent utility when working in concert with applications. Beat me.
 
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Laptops with touchscreens are extremely useful. Ask any Surface Book or any other touchscreen laptop owner. None of them would ever go back to a laptop without touchscreen. And a touchscreen is a hell of a lot more useful than a Touch Bar.

I don't know, I know a few developers who use either a surface book or a surface pro, and I rarely see them using the touch screen. Matter of fact, most of them have a bluetooth mouse they carry around with them to meetings to use with their surface.
 
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