Apple Says Touchscreen Macs 'Not a Particularly Useful or Appropriate Application of Multi-Touch'

[DanielDD]

There are PC touch screen laptops where you fold the keyboard back and it becomes a large tablet. Or you rotate the screen and flip it, or pull the screen off and rotate it, etc.. If there was a touch screen MBP that you can flip the keyboard back then you could have something like a portable Surface Studio (or like many other of the PC 2-in-1's). This would be nice especially with Apple's fixation on thinness (even if it would have to get a bit thicker to support the screen).

Besides, as others have stated, Apple does have their keyboard for the iPad Pro. You hold your iPad yet here they introduced a keyboard for it which requires it to be resting on a table, your lap or on the side of the bed. And, because there's no trackpad or mouse support you're forced to touch the screen, whereas with a touch screen laptop, you still have the option to use the trackpad.

Those kind of devices are either solid tables but not very good laptops (eg. Surface Pro), or solid computers but not very good tablets (eg. Surface Book). Those who say Surface Pro meets their computer needs, do not actually need a computer. Those who say their Surface Book meets their tablet needs, do not actually need a table.
I can speak for the latter. 3 hours battery life, for some huge screen, with no optimized apps for touch? I use my table quite a lot to read, underline and take notes in scientific papers. I commute at least two times a week for 5 hours straight in trains, and train stations with no power source nearby. I don't see any advantage in having a all-in-one device.

And this is the reason I own a 9.7 inch iPad and not the big one, and I also do not have a keyboard for it. Apple might sell those devices (and I can see an argument for the 12.x inch iPad for professionals), but that does not mean they're ergonomic. And that's not an excuse to add a touchscreen to the MacBook Pro.

 

[matthew856]

note the order of these attributes

perhaps he should just sell Apple branded A4 paper sheets and leave the notebook design to computer engineers

Indeed! the priorities are 100% backward!

 

[Rafterman]

Getting tired of Apple skimping on a feature, then trying to float the "it's not useful anyways" balloon.

 

[tubeexperience]

I fully agree with Jony and Apple on this. Adding to what others have said about the OS not being designed for touch and screen cleanliness etc. Having to stretch over the keyboard (surely this would still be there on a touch screen Mac) and hover your arm in the air, whilst touching the screen, would eventually cause discomfort and pain too.

It doesn't seems that bad.

(Surface Studio)

 

[Rafterman]

It is a matter of having more useful key features within finger's reach, not arm's reach like on a touch-enabled screen. That's why the Touchbar is a great innovation. Come to think of it though, anytime I use a function key I usually have to look down.

Why not s touchbar AND a touchscreen? That would be even more useful.

 

[brianvictor7]

Does the trackpad support Apple Pencil? That would be a nice compromise I guess.

I get where you are coming from on that but I don't think they would do it. It would be a big compromise to write on a pad when you can't see the picture underneath. In any case, Apple would rather you bought an iPad.

 

[blacktape242]

so therefore we will no longer make anymore macs

 

[gugy]

Touch bar and the lack of a touch screen on the MBP doesn't bother me. What bothers me are these:
16 GB of RAM
Dongle fest (lack of useful ports)
Price

Apple cater this machine to professionals. We need the ports back. I hate carrying half dozen of dongles. We should have at least 32GB RAM for apps like Photoshop that craves it. Finally the price increase adding the cost of expensive adapters is a turn off.
Apple missed the mark on this MBP and they won't acknowledge it. I guess I'll run my 2015 MBP until it dies. Very sad.

 

[svenning]

"what we won't do is just do something different that's no better".

Removing the card reader, (standard) USB, magSafe and HDMI feels like exactly that...

 

[fynwine350z]

You don't HAVE to. You are given the option to.

At first. Until touchscreen is widely adopted, and designing for that becomes the norm.

 

[Jsameds]

I have never really used Windows 10, so I am not to judge. Only thing I will say is that it's an obvious improvement from the Windows 8 mess.

As for macOS, I would expect Apple to design a good OS that can handle different input styles. Again, 2001->2017 is a long time in computing history. macOS still works decently thanks to the great original design, but it's beginning to show its age. Again, it's a great OS, but Apple better be working on the next (non-incremental) OS.

I have no doubt that they are. We do need an overhaul, but not a touch-centric overhaul. They'll probably do it when they migrate their Macs over to chips of their own design (ala iPhone/iPad etc)

 

[yaxomoxay]

I have no doubt that they are. We do need an overhaul, but not a touch-centric overhaul. They'll probably do it when they migrate their Macs over to chips of their own design (ala iPhone/iPad etc)

I would also oppose "touch-centric" but I would encourage "touch friendly".

 

[Cyberius11]

I've been a long time Apple user. I've held on to my 2011 MacBook Pro for as long as I can, but it's getting old now and was hoping to upgrade to the latest with this latest release.

Absolutely not.

The MagSafe power adapter has saved my current laptop many times, as it did the ones before that. Removing that is a horrible, horrible decision. If the machine had any other redeeming qualities I would still buy the latest version. However, the stupid decision of removing the MagSafe charging port combined with

1) Higher price
2) Dongles, dongles everywhere. USB C Ports only? Really? I have to buy HDMI, SD Card, USB dongles, etc. Thanks Jony. That's very convenient. Pathetic.
3) The crap keyboard. I've tried the MacBook keyboard with the butterfly mechanism. I can't do it.
4) On top of the higher price and nickel and diming me for all the dongles I require, I have to pay for a charger extension? Oh hell, why not, I'd already be over $3k into the machine, what's another $19, right? At least throw us one bone here.
5) I can't use the headphones that came with my iPhone 7 with the new MacBook Pro. I have to buy another set of headphones or use the ones that came with my iPhone 6s. Sort of ironic. Not a big deal, but when I travel I usually only carry one set of headphones. Now I would either have to carry one for my phone and my laptop, or carry 3.5mm headphones to use with the MBP and use a dongle when connecting them to my iPhone. "Yo dawg, I heard you like dongles."

A petty gripe I have as well is removing the light up Apple logo and startup chime. It doesn't affect my work in any way shape or form, but they're just a pleasant addition that is unnecessary to remove.

Jony Ive seems to have an unhealthy fetish with making everything thinner. I understand the desire and drive to make things thinner and as long as it's reasonable, I applaud that. The previous gen RMBP was plenty thin for a Pro laptop. This machine is there as as desktop replacement for me to get actual work done. Making it thinner for the sake of making it thinner and giving up all my ports just to have to carry around dongles is not convenient for me. I want a MacBook PRO - not a DongleBook.

Microsoft is becoming quite innovative and I'm gaining respect for them. Their latest round of Surface devices is impressive. I have a Surface Pro 3 and I've enjoyed the device. It has not served as my primary productivity machine, as my MBP has, but it's been handy. The new Surface Book and Studio look fantastic and their latest release reminds me of the days when Apple released amazing machines that other companies aspired to copy. My next machine will either be the new Surface Book or the previous gen RMBP. I'm quite invested in the Apple ecosystem and it would be hard to change, but after this kick in the nuts from Apple, I'm very willing to make that change.

 

[iReality85]

I can't say I disagree with him here, but there's a caveat to his point.

Macs aren't 2-in-1 devices.

So yeah, of course with that design limitation (which Apple has willingly kept in place), multi touch (e.g. a haptic touch screen with an appropriate touch interface) wouldn't work.

Microsoft, along with Intel and the OEMs went this route with Win8 and 'ultrabooks.' While they struck out with Windows 8, Win10 and the current crop of 2-in-1 ultrabooks are a pretty good experience that keeps getting better. And now Surface Studio, which everyone did a double take on.

Frankly, I find it short sighted of Apple. People no longer have to choose between using a laptop or a tablet. We have devices now that combine both for a good experience.

 

[theluggage]

Me, you, and a lot of others don't see the need for touchscreen MBP's. That doesn't mean they shouldn't exist. For if they did, I'm pretty sure no one would be forced to use the touch. Let's drop the fingerprint argument. It doesn't hold water.

This.

Microsoft are making a big thing about Macs not having touchscreen/pen input, lots of PC makers like Dell are including touch in their 4K XPS models without even making a big thing of it (or adding $500 to the price). In a $3000 laptop released in 2016 it should be a tick-list feature thrown into the keynote somewhere between the real must-haves (like emoticons on the touch strip or a 5-year-old sandbox game launching on the Apple TV).

If you've got a Howard Hughes thing about fingerprints, don't use it. If you don't want gorilla arms then don't use it as a mouse/trackpad replacement, just when being able to manipuate something on screen makes sense.

Personally, I mainly use an external display and keyboard so I won't be using the touch strip - and won't be buying any future Magic Keyboard with Touch Strip if its got an 'orrible no-travel keyboard and no number pad... but the strip won't put me off buying one (the price might).

Cook, Ive and co need to realise that - with only a handful of models in their range - they need to cater for a range of requirements, not just their personal priorities. OK, so Jobs was also one for giving people what he thought they needed rather than what they said they wanted but... well, not to put to fine a point on it, he was better at it.

In particular, he realised (possibly after getting it wrong with the Lisa and the NeXT cube) that Apple needed a good, affordable model - like the original iMac, iBook andl Mac Mini - to get people into the store (physical or virtual). Once they've decided to buy a Mac, its the sales team's job to earn their bonus and upsell them to a Pro model.

Oh, and for pity's sake Apple, drop the "Hey, we're doing you a favor by throwing in a power supply and a beautiful cardboard box" attitude and consider consider the effect of the phrase "Free USB-C adapter kit worth $200 on orders before December 31st" on potential customers worried about the connector issue...

 

[BitsnPieces]

A fitting quote from Elon Musk may shed some light on the situation: “The moment the person leading a company thinks numbers have value in themselves, the company’s done. The moment the CFO becomes CEO—it’s done. Game over.” Job's had a bigger picture. Today Apple sadly is the new Sony. I has become a numbers game for them. Why take risks at this point. Why question the status quo? Instead we get carefully designed products with functional limitations that push you to either buy another Apple device to fill a functional gap or buy their iCloud service, oh and don't get me started on Apples dongle-land ...

 

[guzhogi]

I want an iPad Pro that, when docked to a keyboard/trackpad base unit with battery and maybe a Thunderbolt 100GB/s (a future version is supposed to be able to go up to that) connection to a more powerful GPU/CPU in the base. Everything would be ARM chips designed by Apple—maybe even a dozen cores all told. Have it fade from touch-based to mouse-based UI when docked. All Mac and iPad apps would be universal binaries. This would probably necessitate a move to the 1.6 aspect ratio like the MacBook Pro uses, which I would be fine with for a Pro iPad. I would being willing to pay embarrassing amounts of money for this device.

I wouldn't mind a docking station that included a better GPU, additional drive space, etc. Not sure how I'd feel going from say an iOS to MacOS interface, but whatever. The only thing is I don't really see Apple doing something like that. Too niche. Apple seems more interested in products that appeal to the general consumer and not so much niche markets.

 

[i hate phones]

I think touch screens are good for hybrid laptop/tablets... but for a full time laptop, not worth the extra cost to me. IMO touchscreens are awkward and uncomfortable to use when the screen isn't laying flat (or near flat), not to mention the screen is further away on a laptop or desktop. Also, apple trackpads are amazing. I'm really intrigued by the touch bar.. I think its an interesting compromise, offers some of the convenient, quick menu options of a touch screen and seems much more ergonomically friendly to me. It's almost as if they took a lot of the ways you would interact with a touch screen and put them right in front of you for easy access.

With that said, I'm sure there are certain professions where touchscreen really changes the experience (art/design/photography, etc) but for the people who keep saying my mom tries to touch my screen because she's used to using an iPad, I don't really think that's the audience the macbook pros are aimed at.

 

[BootsWalking]

John Ive should stick to designing cases and leave UI design to others.

 

[nt5672]

It doesn't matter if they spent a million hours designing the touchbar, if its not a good component or doesn't increase a person's efficiency, its not good. Personally, it seems very gimmicky and won't be something that will last

I think we need to give the touchbar a little time. It also seems to me that it is a gimmick and excuse not to copy the competition with a touch screen.

The real problem with the new MacBook Pros is the lack of options. For example, no 32G memory. Note that the 13 inch has an option for a higher CPU clock than any of the 15 inch models. Why is that? If you use the 15 inch you don't need so much processing power? Nope, they had to make the 15 inch thinner and lighter. This is the central problem with Ive and computers. He is a great iPhone designer, but he should leave the computers alone. We don't need the top end MacBook Pros being a fashion device. We need a top end computer that pushes the technology. With all of these non-computer professionals at the top of Apple, they have forgotten they are a technology company.

 

[BornAgainMac]

What about non-touchscreen Macs like the Mac Mini and Mac Pro? Are those still appropriate? And if they are appropriate, is it appropriate to update the hardware at regular intervals or make price adjustments to retail prices to stay competitive?

 

[Dave245]

This is a good interview to watch, at around 2 minutes 50 he talks about the idea of a touchscreen Mac.

 

[Abazigal]

Question for you guys. When the massive new trackpads do get pencil/stylus support (and they clearly will given apple's patent activity in the last couple of years), are we still going going to insist on the screen being touch sensitive?

Is there something, aside from stylus support, in anyone's workflow that requires the ability to poke at your vertical screen?

I guess that's what Apple intends to do. Find tasks that might be better on a touchscreen, and implement them without requiring a touchscreen.

I guess we can't say Apple is being miserly here. That touchbar alone likely costs way more to develop and implement than simply slapping a touchscreen on a laptop screen.

 

[guzhogi]

Really wish the company behind Modbooks was bigger, able to keep up with the market better, etc. That way, the people who really want a touchscreen laptop could get one.

 

[jmgregory1]

Question for you guys. When the massive new trackpads do get pencil/stylus support (and they clearly will given apple's patent activity in the last couple of years), are we still going going to insist on the screen being touch sensitive?

Is there something, aside from stylus support, in anyone's workflow that requires the ability to poke at your vertical screen?

I think that a lot of people who support MS's touchscreen systems think they make sense because they've touched their screen for something (like pointing to a cell or photo), but I would bet a fair amount of money that virtually no one is touching their laptop or desktop screen for hours in order to work. It's just not an efficient input method [for a laptop or desktop].

And considering how crappy most PC trackpads are, it's no wonder MS had to find another solution, beyond the mouse.

Anecdotally, my wife used to be a big mouse user, because she was just more comfortable with them, even though she's been using Macs for the past 20 years. Once I showed her a few of the multi-touch trackpad inputs / shortcuts, she ditched the mouse and now uses multi-touch on her iMac more than I do on my rMBP. And although she's as adept as anyone on an iPhone or iPad, the idea of touching her iMac screen (or rMBP screen for that matter), is absolutely taboo, mainly because of the fingerprints it leaves. We're both that way, keeping a micro-fiber cloth handy, just for clearing dust and the occasional co-worker finger prints that end up on the screen.