Apple Says Touchscreen Macs 'Not a Particularly Useful or Appropriate Application of Multi-Touch'

[NT1440]

The issue here isn't the form factor (i.e.: laptop form factor vs tablet form factor), but the OS (i.e.: MacOS vs iOS).

The problem isn't that a touchscreen on the MacBook isn't ergonomic. The problem is that the supposedly ergonomic solution (the iPad) doesn't run an operating system. If Apple installed an operating system on it, there wouldn't be any discussion here.

See this is what I don't understand, your basing the "problem" around the absolute need for touch input on a screen for MacOS. Why? Why in the world is this a requirement for the future of what Apple has clearly claimed multiple times in the last year will be a DESKTOP PARADIGM OPERATING SYSTEM.

 

[niun]

Optimized, in what way? There is software where touch input is enabled and the UI is optimized in that direction. But, as I said, I haven't come across a software which under usage is equally good when using mouse or touch input.

Photoshop, ClipPaint Studio, any DAW (BitWig personally) on the planet. Kindle, Edge. These are just a few where the experience is greatly enhanced by touch.

 

[rasputin1969]

Yes, because since Cook has been in charge Apple's revenue has grown by over 500%. That kind of performance is simply inexcusable. It's a small miracle that he wasn't fired when the company only doubled in size.

Apple's quarterly revenue for June 2011, the last full quarter with Jobs as CEO was $28 billion. The revenue for the most recent June quarter was $42 billion, a sizeable increase but not anywhere near 500%.

Furthermore I think you'd have to ask yourself just how much of Apple's current success is built upon the work Jobs did and the product pipeline he put in place, compared to the more recent products designed exclusively under Cook's tenure.

 

[dantracht]

Touchscreens are, IMHO, cool but not the be all end all. We have them on our desktops at work, and I still prefer a good old mouse and keyboard.

They're a nice extra, but not a necessity. Might have to give this one to Apple. Not something I want on a Mac.

Just my two cents.

 

[69Mustang]

You might not be forced to use it. But everyone would be forced to pay for it.

Irrelevant to the point of my quote, which was people should stop using the fingerprint argument. It's not a good one.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

I find it striking that most commenters and tech bloggers keep acting as the Touch Strip was a response to PC touchscreens.

It's not. It's the answer to the question: "what to replace an unused, mostly vestigial row of keys?".

And it's an excellent, innovative answer.

I don't think that's the right line of thinking here. It's more of an excuse to change something on the Macbook Pro for the sake of change and differentiate from the competition when it's not really much.

Would you dare DJ on a Touch Bar on the laptop in a live event or use turntables? There's a reason why professional DJs go with a full set. If one were to edit music or tracks, the Touch Bar isn't appropriate. For one thing, knobs or dials, even keys have more 'granular' control than a capacitive touch screen or bar. That DJ Algoriddim demo at the keynote was embarassing, the more I think about it. I don't DJ for a living but I've been to clubs for years and have seen how they work the set.

There's nothing innovative about the Touch Bar because a Russian Optimus keyboard existed LONG before Apple implemented that idea.

 

[luciferuk]

How so? Many folks don't seem to have any issues using them on laptops.

I think for Apple to consider any technical change to a product; there has to be serious intent and benefit to the end customer.

Apple call it surprise and delight and like you say, many people don't have issues using touch screens on a notebook but is it a good experience to touch the screen on your notebook or is it just a compromise?

It certainly is everyone to their own opinion and I am not suggesting people hate on notebook touch screens at all, I just absolutely loathe fingerprints on my MacBook screen.

 

[Mr Fusion]

See this is what I don't understand, your basing the "problem" around the absolute need for touch input on a screen for MacOS. Why? Why in the world is this a requirement for the future of what Apple has clearly claimed multiple times in the last year will be a DESKTOP PARADIGM OPERATING SYSTEM.

I don't think he wants MacOS on an iPad, just something a lot more capable and powerful than iOS. iPad needs its own operating system, in between the phone and a laptop. iOS is good for simple tasks on a phone, not much else.

 

[The Mercurian]

The decision not to make the MBP touch screen is the one decision they made in this update that I actually agree with.

 

[vcboard]

The touch bar origin
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3136...apples-touch-bar-before-apples-touch-bar.html

 

[bluefabian]

I'm sure we: Mac users are not expecting a touch based MacBook (though we are confident the convergence is just inevitable somewhere in the future). That's what the iPad is for.

But for me, I question the need of a touch interface for a so called enhanced user experience when you now have to look down on your keys. Wouldn't it be more productive to just touch the screen and still be looking at your work? Apple used to have a solid user interface guideline which seems to be questionable these days.

And the price.

 

[Keerock]

A touch screen on OSX in it's current form, meh.

Touch Bar, meh meh meh.

A fictional MBP with a detachable screen & pen support, a touch screen would be great.

Unfortunately, Apple is sticking to old paradigms until at least 2019.

That Schiller moment of "innovate my ass" is looking increasingly embarrassing now, doubly so given the state of the Mac Pro.

Sad times.

What if they were to mature the iPad pro to have a better integrated detachable keyboard as well as better "Finder" like usability? I honestly think that Apple's road map is to have the iPad pro and MacBooks have a parallel road maps that are converging. Where ultimately we do move to a dual tablet/laptop device from Apple.

I have tried using all three types of "Pro" devices – standard laptops, hybrid laptops (not Apple obviously), tablets with keyboard add ons – and I have to say I greatly prefer a laptop. I must say though that I am completely uninspired to replace my 5 year old Macbook Pro 15" just to get the touch bar. Retina screen sounds good but that's been out since last generation and that didn't make me upgrade then as I waited for this Gen.

 

[SDuffy]

Why do some on here keep clamouring for touch screen Macs? Mac OS isn't designed for touch. Minimising and maximising windows with your fingers, for example, isn't ergonomical because the buttons are too small to give a precise enough touch. Not to mention the constant arm ache it would cause. I thought you would all know this by now yet I still see people, and bizarrely more Apple fans, asking "why don't they just make a touchscreen Mac?". Steve Jobs said it himself this is the reason why, because it just isn't natural nor comfortable. Your hands want to rest downward towards a keyboard, not waving around in front of you. It would also cause a lot of arm fatigue. This is why they made the iPad instead, because it's designed for touch, and more comfortable to actually hold in your lap or wherever. Although it's no where near featured as a Mac, think of what it'll be like in 10+ years. The Mac has had 40 years to get where it's at today, while the iPad is still growing.

Here's what I find ironic about all those Mac fans who keep responding with these comments such as, "It's not ergonomic." Ummm ... then why does the iPad exist? Why did Apple create another device to use instead of just applying that design to their MBs? To make more money? You mentioned the iPad not being as robust basically as the MB/MBP yet, Surface tablets and now the Surface Books, not talking the Studio mind you, all have the same functionality as a standard windows Desktop. Not talking about custom rigs. "Standard" desktops.

Lol so the answer to the ergonomics problem of touchscreens on a laptop, is to make it into a tablet instead. The irony of engineering your way out of a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

That's not irony. What's irony is the fact the attitude you take is beyond "fan boy" status. Just because M$ is now outplaying Apple in design doesn't mean you should ignore it and try to make ridiculous claims of, "engineering yourself out of a problem." The problem is that iPads are toys. They are not devices that basically would be a laptop if they had a built in KB. Enter, the Surface Book as pictured in tubeexperience's post which you then commented on.

Apple is starting to fall behind the proverbial 8 ball. Like it or not. The announcement of the studio ... that was a knife to the hearts of the more sensible Apple users. They get it. They may not be happy about it but they can see that Apple dropped the ball here. The Apple Reddit page proved that statement last week after the MBP 2016 event.

 

[niun]

I can't help but feel just above the track pad would have been a far more useful place to put the touchbar. Make it slightly larger to show more content and have it as an extension of an area you naturally pinch, tweak, zoom etc..

Rather than an area of the machine you jab at.

 

[DanielDD]

Touchscreen versus MacBook Pro TouchPad

Advantages:
(1) precision drawing with auxiliary input devices (such as a pressure sensitive pen)

Disadvantages:
(1) less ergonomic. Keyboard and Touchpad are on same surface. No need to take your hands from resting position to use either of the main input devices;
(2) less precise. Mouse inputs are more precise than touch inputs. Period. Also, no hand / finger obstructing the view on screen.
(3) more prone for the screen to get dirty
(4) screen hobbles more when using touch controls
(5) more power consumption
(6) redesigned interface with bigger buttons. This is clearly a tradeoff for someone who wants as much screen estate as possible.

I understand Touchscreens are better than Windows machines touchpads. They offer better accuracy and more multitouch controls. However, they are by no means better than Mac touchpads.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

It is shocking to think Apple has so willingly abandoned their hardware customers.

Mr. Ivy, Mr. Cook, a long time, dedicated Apple customer for your phones, your laptops, for your desktops, for your watch, for your AppleTV, two days ago I pre-ordered a fully loaded Microsoft Surface Studio. This is the first time I have purchased any type of Microsoft based hardware product in 15 years or so.

Mr. Ivy and Mr. Cook, you are wrong about what your customers want. Competition in the marketplace is a great thing, and right now Microsoft is putting on a clinic on innovatiion. Please take note.

Microsoft did a nice job. Their presentation was professional and straight forward, unlike the circus of Cook's keynotes of the past. But also you should look at how brilliant Nintendo did with their Switch unveiling over Youtube. One article mentioned how that timing was genius in that it was unexpected and short, showcasing what the console can do without revealing too much leaving for the next Nintendo keynote/announcement to handle it. I suspect Apple TRIED to pull a "Nintendo" with their MBP leak and it didn't work.

I don't think their 'secrecy' until the keynote works anymore and should stop trying to emulate the Job-sian approach to paranoia. Cookie Monster, Phony Ive, Williams the Cook Clone, The Shill, and Cue Ball need to go.

 

[maflynn]

I just absolutely loathe fingerprints on my MacBook screen.

I do too, but then I get them on my iPad, but also on my laptops (both MacBooks and Surface Book) because I have kids who have turned into monitor pokers - against my strongest efforts to stop that

 

[tubeexperience]

As explained by Apple long ago you would have gorilla arm after a while. Using a touch screen in a vertical position would end up giving you the worst carpal-tunnel ever. Thy probably did proof of concept prototypes and ended up why it would not be practical over an extended period of time.

Surface Studio said "Hi" and it can come do to 20 degrees from horizontal.

 

[a.gomez]

Nonsense. He has never been to an art studio that has them. Even for one on one board member presentations - they are amazing.

 

[Workerbee Redux]

Christ... no one removed the function keys.

They did. I know you have now virtual keys, but for hard-core hackers, they aren't the same. Not if you rely on blindly hitting ESC while looking at the screen.

 

[ChrisCW11]

And I will keep stating that Apple forces users to have to use touch screen only for the iPad Pro when it's docked to its keyboard in "desktop" mode. Apple keeps making these baseless claims about ergonomics and efficiency of use, and yet have the nerve of releasing a "pro" product that is a massive compromise on functionality.

Apple does not understand PRO, period. They do not know what pro users want or need and find ways to limit the abilities of professionals now with every product release. Touch on my laptop is NOT the only way that I interact with it, and I totally agree that if I had to constantly interact with the screen in front of me instead of using a mouse and keyboard it would get tiresome quickly, but it's been a fantastic tool that allows me to EASILY develop tablet and phone application without needing to constantly copy the build output to my iPad or Android tablet to ensure that it is user and touch friendly, and there are just things you CAN'T do on a desktop emulator with a mouse, even on a Mac trackpad, that can simulate the direct touch of a mobile application.

You're telling me Apple could not figure out that one of the best use cases for desktop touch is for iPad/iPhone app development? It just proves Apple is completely out of touch with their pro customers today. All they need is ONE MacBook Pro product that does this, one option of one product model, there are all kinds of PC's that have a touch and touch-free version, and adding touch to macOS should not be hard for a company with the money and engineering resources as Apple. This is a cop out of epic proportions, a "tech" company that refuses to move into the future.

And then look at Microsoft's Studio. I know this is a very niche product, but you can't tell me there is not a graphics professional out their that doesn't have this on their Christmas wish list. If you are telling me the touch bar is a more innovative way for graphics professionals to do their job then using Studio you are simply in denial. I respect a company that innovates and fails then a company that tells customers they don't need the features and tools they want and refuse to deliver a product to match consumer expectations. And if you haven't noticed, Apple is not doing so well with that attitude anymore.

To paraphrase Apple: "Our customers are morons, spending $3000 for a laptop that limits their potential just because we say so, and we LOVE morons".

Sounds like someone else that wants to make things great but doesn't have a clue on how to deliver.

 

[asiga]

See this is what I don't understand, your basing the "problem" around the absolute need for touch input on a screen for MacOS. Why? Why in the world is this a requirement for the future of what Apple has clearly claimed multiple times in the last year will be a DESKTOP PARADIGM OPERATING SYSTEM.

Maybe it's because I find the iPad touchscreen comfortable, but useless because it doesn't run an operating system. MacOS needs only an slight minor redesign for being touch-friendly (as already shown by Microsoft and Ubuntu), while iOS would need a complete scrapping and radical change for adopting MacOS power and features.

Take it this way: The day I'll be able to invoke clang from a Terminal in an iPad, I'll shut up. But that day will never come, because Apple won't permit the iPad runs an operating system.

 

[luciferuk]

I do too, but then I get them on my iPad, but also on my laptops (both MacBooks and Surface Book) because I have kids who have turned into monitor pokers - against my strongest efforts to stop that

This is very true, todays technology is educating us that we can interact with the screen.

Hell I think I even tried to pinch and zoom a picture in a magazine once!! I'm dead serious.
We are certainly victims of the new dawn ;-)

 

[Pilgrim1099]

The touch bar origin
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3136...apples-touch-bar-before-apples-touch-bar.html

I remember seeing this. Good point! Also, Razer did a nice job with that. I have a Razer mouse and love it. What they did with the touch screen on that keyboard was pretty cool and well thought out, especially for gaming or productive purposes. Personally, I think this one was better than the Touch Bar insanity.

 

[DanielDD]

Here's what I find ironic about all those Mac fans who keep responding with these comments such as, "It's not ergonomic." Ummm ... then why does the iPad exist? Why did Apple create another device to use instead of just applying that design to their MBs? To make more money? You mentioned the iPad not being as robust basically as the MB/MBP yet, Surface tablets and now the Surface Books, not talking the Studio mind you, all have the same functionality as a standard windows Desktop. Not talking about custom rigs. "Standard" desktops.

You hold your iPad on the screen. The MacBook rests on the table, on your lap, or on the side of the bed. People don't hold their MacBooks by the screen.
Different devices have different ergonomics.