I hope this fixes the dictation bug. I haven't been able to use it ever since 10.8.2
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Oh that flash. I thought for a moment it might be Adobe flash. silly me.
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Apple Seeds Build 12D74 of OS X Beta 10.8.3 to Developers
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I hope this fixes the dictation bug. I haven't been able to use it ever since 10.8.2
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Oh that flash. I thought for a moment it might be Adobe flash. silly me.
It was more stable when Serlet was running the show. Your analogy lacks logic, like Apple speeding up major OS X releases.
Don't think different, just, think
Really? OS 10.0 was more stable than Lion? It's funny that someone accusing the other party of not thinking can actually claim that one man can make a difference between a stable and a non-stable OS. The direction the OS goes is another story, but stability is up to the hundreds of engineers, not Serlet or Craig.
I haven't had a single issue with Lion or Mountain Lion stability wise on any of my macs. Then again I didn't have any stability issues with OS X since 10.3.
That's not an analogy but I'll ignore that part or your post. Your logic is contradictory. You don't want fast releases, but are complaining about a long beta period.It was more stable when Serlet was running the show. Your analogy lacks logic, like Apple speeding up major OS X releases.
Don't think different, just, think
I think that people are referring how he ran the department perhaps or that we are seeing the effects of post Jobs in the company. Either way I have not see any of the issues people report on my system or RMBP other then the long shutdown times. But who really cares about boot and shutdown times? How often do you really need to do these things?
"It took longer the 5 seconds to boot and more the 5 seconds to shutdown... it took 15 seconds to boot and 30 to shutdown"-anonymous quote
Who cares? Really? I rather have issues in the OS addressed and never have this issue fixed.
I never complained, Ms Cleo. I simply stated my disbelief that Apple is having difficulty with a 10.x.x release and yet wants to speed up their OS X releases. Reading comprehension goes a long way.
I never complained, Ms Cleo. I simply stated my disbelief that Apple is having difficulty with a 10.x.x release and yet wants to speed up their OS X releases. Reading comprehension goes a long way.
Why do you say they are having difficulty ?
Reading the OS X Developer forums, many are still experiencing WiFi issues on systems with 10.5/6 also installed without WiFi instability. There have also been reports/bugs - still recognized and open - regarding longer shut down times and graphics on rMBP's they cannot seem to isolate and fully repair. When a HDD MBP beats a SSD rMBP in shut down times and graphics rendering, of which the engineers and developers cannot diagnose to properly correct, it's an issue. How many .3 beta's have we had? This goes back a long time.
....and yet engineers are stretched thin working on 10.9. It's mind boggling.
I never complained, Ms Cleo. I simply stated my disbelief that Apple is having difficulty with a 10.x.x release and yet wants to speed up their OS X releases. Reading comprehension goes a long way.
I just looked over the dev discussions and I think you might be exaggerating a bit.
how many open bugs do you have ?
I don't read your posts in a vacuum, you've been very vocal in complaining about OS X after Snow Leopard in other threads. Considering that there isn't any real solid evidence that Apple is actually having difficulty with the release, your posts have very little merit to them.I never complained, Ms Cleo. I simply stated my disbelief that Apple is having difficulty with a 10.x.x release and yet wants to speed up their OS X releases. Reading comprehension goes a long way.
Edit: Wallpaper issue seems to have fixed itself. Not sure how.
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I think they should just concentrate on getting 10.9 correct out of the box instead of needing a years worth of patches to make it stable.
An HDD MBP will obviously beat an SSD rMBP in graphics rendering since it's rendering almost 4 times less many pixels with the same GPU. So that's not an issue at all. If you play a game in a regular and retina MBP, the gaming performance is the same as long as you play it at the same resolution. So there are no graphics related bugs in retina MBP's. And SSD/HDD have no effect on GPU performance. About slow shutdown times, I think it's effecting all macs, not just SSD ones, and that's not really an issue that needs fixing immediately. There are a lot more important things before we come to that.
About the number of open tickets, for every release of OS X, there are thousands of open bug tickets at all times. And that is quite normal.
So you are saying the number of bugs is acceptable? I also disagree about slow shutdown times not needing to be fixed. They broke it with 10.8.2 and it is clearly to do with the social integration and notification centre update and it should be patched and not pushed to the back of the queue.
Good points about the graphics. My only contention is (in theory) a retina product should not have been released with so much [seemingly] left to "flesh out". Meaning, the numerous hardware and software issues that many have been experiencing should not have happened to the extent it has for such a premium product that Apple seems to have been pushing as "the next best thing". A MacBook Pro should not out-perform a retina system, if it does than there is an underlying issue. Certainly a rMBP has more work in graphics rendering, however paying a higher premium for slower graphics with a myriad of glitches in Safari and over core app's should not be outweighed by the factor that it is a "retina" display. Work out the kinks, then release the product. Hopefully the next releases will be much more stable and consistent (a byproduct of first batch systems perhaps). What about OpenGL Core 4.0 support? It's god awful, something OS X has seemed to be suffering from for a while now. Windows systems blow even the most supped up Mac's out of the water. It's shameful. Releasing a "retina" display with shoddy graphics cards, resulting in over heating systems, shutdowns, graphic glitches. It's as though Apple focused more on the display and less on proper hardware support to drive it.
As for tickets, I have experienced WiFi issues on my current gen 12-Core Mac Pro, 2012 MacBook Air and 2011 iMac. All systems have clean installs of 10.6.8, 10.8.2 and 10.8.3. Snow Leopard experiences no WiFi connectivity issues (dropping, spikes, inconsistent signals, etc). All things remaining equal, 10.8.x has definitely suffered from WiFi instability, running the latest .3 update doesn't seem to be helping. I've run this on guest accounts, clean installs using the buried .dmg on a USB drive, etc. Many user forums are frustrated by this issue. Personally, I found the networking protocols (I'm talking about you SAMBA) that Apple utilized in 10.7+ to be a huge hassle, especially for server related instances. I'm glad that finally got worked out, perhaps Apple jumped the gun in updating certain aspects, breaking compatibility, who knows. Safari has certainly improved, caching issues with websites not updated were a major PITA having to reload any time you navigate.
One aspect I'm on the fence about concerns the social networking features throughout 10.7-8 which seemed to be a major focus for OS X software engineers. I personally don't need them, but I've read numerous debates regarding the "bloatware" of said features. Some state it doesn't effect system performance if they are not configured/utilized, and others have shown proof that even unused they eat up background resources (which is rather perplexing).
10.7's Memory management was atrocious, 10.8 has been slightly better, however they fall well behind 10.6 in terms of overall functionality, speed, and stability. A system in 10.6.8 with half the RAM generally runs faster than a 10.7-8 system with double the RAM (and I'm not including the rMBP's in this remark). Why? What is the need for so much memory in a base system? I installed 10.8 on a friends 2010 MacBook Pro with 4GB's of RAM (from 10.6). It's so slow, simply using Mail, Safari, iTunes and smaller non-core app's is god awful. She went back to 10.6.8 and it's a breath of fresh air. I really wish Apple released a .9 update for Snow Leopard with iCloud integration, it wouldn't have taken much engineering wise and those who refuse to migrate would be able to purchase and use iDevices with their iCloud accounts. I spent about a month reading online forums on how to configure iCal, Mail and Contacts with iCloud in 10.6.8, Contacts being the bugger. Finally got it working perfectly, although it still doesn't have the full iCloud compatibility offered in 10.7+. When 10.7 was released, 10.6 systems were hardly legacy, yet Apple refused to simply update key features in order to push out new Mac's and 10.7 (which was the first time Apple departed from ISO ~ bi-weekly beta testing for an average 4 DP's before GM, and while OS X 10 was most definitely a terrible release, 10.7 was nipping at its heels).
It seems 10.8.3 is making its way as the longest and most released OS X 10.x.x release to date. Simply stating that there are "no known issues" doesn't mean it's issue free, there are plenty of open bugs that I have received follow-up's directly from Apple engineers requesting screen caps, movies, and detailed information. If Apple cannot get 10.8.3 ironed out, how is moving to 10.9 this year making any sense? You cannot build upon a core OS that needs work. Certainly 10.9 may be a complete rewrite, who knows at this point, but if it is anything akin to 10.7 and 10.8, I fear it may be a bugged disappointment.
I've been very vocal? Ok. I have barely been posting on MacRumors as of late, however I am not the only individual who has been vocal regarding Serlet's departure from Apple as VP in Software Engineering, leaving Craig Federighi running 10.7/8 with mixed results. If you care not to read my comments, don't, this is an open forum. I read yours with an open mind, and take all opinions into consideration. I do not engage or provoke others unless first provoked, and in most cases I simply ignore them. My remarks (when appropriate) regarding 10.6 versus 10.7/8 have actually received much positive feedback as many agree, and they are constructive criticisms while praising certain aspects I do like in 10.7/8. It is through this that many have expressed their frustrations while receiving helpful tips from others on how to improve their workflow(s) in such a divisive situation for so many.
Dismissing those who take issue as having "little merit" is your opinion, however it doesn't justify rudely dismissing others as you have done so skillfully. Instead, engage someone with an open mind, don't be so defensive, and don't push others' buttons, it serves no good other than to unjustly demean others who are here for the same reason as everyone else - our love of Apple products. It's the blind followers who refuse to acknowledge that Apple can do no wrong that will lead to a company's demise. There should be checks and balances, proper civil discourse, and assisting development as much as we can in order to improve the products we have used for years and depend on for our livelihood.
I respect your opinion(s), but please do not try to insult me by over-dramatizing my remarks and dismissing them as having little merit. It's unnecessary. If you cannot be an adult about it, either move on without commenting or PM the individual. Otherwise, you seem to wish to publicly discredit someone for having a difference of opinion. That speaks more of you than the individuals who are trying to expand their knowledge and understanding while hopefully helping others without feeling debased by those who wish to bully them into silence. That is not what an online forum is meant to accomplish.
I'll be doing a fresh install as I migrate from 10.7.5 which is what I'm on right now.
What?!!! ANOTHER beta? That's exactly what I DID NOT WANT to happen. This has to be the LAST beta before public release. Maybe I could afford to wait one more week, but I CANNOT WAIT two more weeks.
I'm trying to be as patient as I can, but I think that Apple is taking TOO long. They better have a good reason for it, such as bug fixing.
Ummm that's the idea of point releases... And quit moaning about things taking too long. Either they're rushed and they're buggy, or you take time and they are significantly less buggy.
Mountain Lion is perfectly usable as it is.
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No the hate came partly from the removal of Rosetta but mainly because Lion sucked arse..
Hi,
I've followed this and the other 'beta' threads with interest because I (a few months ago) had to upgrade the memory in my iMac (mid-2010) to 16 Gb so as to try and avoid the ridiculous thrashing the drive was doing every time it was woken up. Now, despite having only a few apps (Mail, Safari, Chrome, Contacts, Messenger, Reminders and Notes) open it can still consume up to 10Gb. I've also experienced the vanishing cursor, the elusive wi-fi signal and the dysfunctional Time Machine issues.
Having said all that, I am holding on to hope for OS X. I would like to think that the IOS Maps 'disease' that had spread to OS X is being addressed. Hopefully, after the Forstall episode, Tim Cook has drawn a line in the sand.
Apple has slowly been building widespread acceptance for the desktop and laptop markets. They really can't afford, at this stage to start looking like the second coming of Microsoft. When I initially got the iMac, I was amazed. Everything pretty much worked as advertised. It even shut down uber-fast.
Now on the odd occasion that I have to shut it down I frequently have to wait up to five minutes and then 'pull the plug'. Otherwise it just sits there with a grey screen. This is not an issue for me, just a worry that the drive might be compromised if there are incomplete writes. (Running 10.8.2 by the way)
So my hope is that Apple management is turning the entire software ship around.
I've followed this and the other 'beta' threads with interest because I (a few months ago) had to upgrade the memory in my iMac (mid-2010) to 16 Gb so as to try and avoid the ridiculous thrashing the drive was doing every time it was woken up. Now, despite having only a few apps (Mail, Safari, Chrome, Contacts, Messenger, Reminders and Notes) open it can still consume up to 10Gb. I've also experienced the vanishing cursor, the elusive wi-fi signal and the dysfunctional Time Machine issues.
Having said all that, I am holding on to hope for OS X. I would like to think that the IOS Maps 'disease' that had spread to OS X is being addressed. Hopefully, after the Forstall episode, Tim Cook has drawn a line in the sand.
Apple has slowly been building widespread acceptance for the desktop and laptop markets. They really can't afford, at this stage to start looking like the second coming of Microsoft. When I initially got the iMac, I was amazed. Everything pretty much worked as advertised. It even shut down uber-fast.
Now on the odd occasion that I have to shut it down I frequently have to wait up to five minutes and then 'pull the plug'. Otherwise it just sits there with a grey screen. This is not an issue for me, just a worry that the drive might be compromised if there are incomplete writes. (Running 10.8.2 by the way)
So my hope is that Apple management is turning the entire software ship around.
Sorry about what I posted! I'm trying to be as patient as I can. I apologized for it earlier in the thread, but I guess you did not see those apologies. Those apologies are on pages 2 & 3.
No, it's not.
Logic Pro is broken under 10.8.2. There is a bug in Core Audio that causes the entire Logic UI to hang for seconds on end, making the entire rig unusable for any serious work.
This is one of the things that has been listed as being "fixed" in the 10.8.3 notes. I know of several people who had to revert to 10.6, others who flat out returned their machines, and one shop that abandoned Logic entirely due to the instability in the OS and the insane delay in 10.8.3 (or any other applicable bug fix) being released.
Frankly, I'm tired of waiting- not for 10.8.3 or any subsequent release, but for Apple to get their **** back together and start solidifying what they have rather then "innovating" half-baked features into the OS that nobody wants or needs. It would be nice to know that the future of my platform could be counted on for once.
-SC
Yup, now it is March and the damn update has still not landed
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Perhaps they you push forward updates immediately (on the run) instead of point releases which depend on when Apple thinks they have gathered enough points to be released. It is almost 4 months, come on!
Now some people have to wait for months while that part of the update they have been waiting for was already finalized in November......this sucks.
Of course. Even for a single application like Photoshop or Final Cut, there are hundreds of bug tickets open at all times. So imagine how many bugs can one find for an entire operating system. Thousands is the number. And one can never fix all of them, for any OS out there. There will always be many bugs for any software complicated enough. The important thing is to get rid of the most crucial ones and there are always more crucial bugs than a slow shutdown. Something that makes some of us wait 20 seconds once a week isn't a big deal. The engineers time is better spent fixing the more important issues. And even though Apple has a lot of engineers they don't have infinitely many of them. So things have to be prioritised, always.
First of all, to make a retina as fast as a regular MBP Apple has to intentionally drop the quality of the GPU they put inside the regular one. Why would anyone do that? That won't make retina faster, only the regular slower. That's total nonsense. A retina mac will always be slower on certain rendering tasks than a regular one, whether it's a MBP or Mac Pro or iMac.
You don't pay higher premium for slower graphics. You pay a higher premium for the better display. And that better display is driven by the same GPU as other MBP's. There just isn't a faster GPU out there which can increase 2D rendering speeds of retinas at the moment. Even if you install semi desktop grade GPU's, their 2D performance won't be that much different on the retina resolution. There will be speed increases on retina macs in the future, mostly due to software being more optimised for HiDPI in the future. So there just isn't a time in the future when Apple "should" have released the retina MBP so that the performance didn't take a hit compared to regular ones. The same thing would have happened.
About Open GL 4.0 support, that's obviously a flaw of Apple not related to retinas. Apple has always been extremely slow on Open GL releases. This isn't specific to Lion or ML either. Open GL 3.2 was released around the same time as Snow Leopard yet Apple shipped SL with Open GL 2.1. But the performance hit compared to Windows isn't really about the lack of Open GL 4.0. That's an API for game and app developers. It doesn't speed things up for the current software. OS X being slower in games compared to Windows has tons of reasons, be it games being more optimised for DirectX instead of Open GL, be it issues with porting Windows games to OS X, be it OS X's GPU drivers being less optimised for gaming etc. Apple can ship 10.8.3 with Open GL 4.0 support tomorrow and all your games will run at exactly the same speed.
About overheating, I have no idea. I own a rMBP and it's running extremely cool compared to my 2009 MBP which was most of the time too hot to put on my lap. And the fan isn't kicking all the time on this one, even when I play games on it. So I'm really happy with the direction Apple took on these retina MBP's about heating. I haven't experienced any shutdowns, if someone has shutdowns due to overheating, it's a hardware issue and needs repairs/exchange. That's not a software bug.
I haven't had wifi dropout issues on my retina but then again I never had wifi dropout issues on my 2009 MBP either with SL or L. I'm probably one of the lucky ones on this.
They do eat background resources, like 0.2% CPU. If that's too much to give out for, then you should go back to Tiger if you can because every new OS had added more background tasks which run all the time. SL has more background tasks running than Leopard, Lion more than SL etc. But at any point you still have 96%ish CPU free where the 4% is everything the OS spends when it's idle.
Runs faster according to what? Geekbench scores on the same machines under SL and Lion have been the same. New OS releases don't increase or decrease hardware performance on Macs in big amounts.
Why stop there? You could install Leopard on it and it'd run even faster with 4GB's of Ram. I haven't used a machine with less than 8GB Ram since 2008 so I don't know how my machines would perform with 4. But with 8 I haven't had any performance drops when I switched from SL to Lion. I had some performance drop in Finder tasks when I switched from Leopard to SL due to the new Finder being rewritten in cocoa and is doing a lot more background tasks at every click compared to what it was doing in Leopard. In general, Leopard for me was the most responsive OS, and with SL things got slower at first and then some of them sped up with Lion or ML.
No known issues means that no serious issues are known which can be reproduced on every hardware at every time. Like I said, there are always thousands of known issues at every OS release. This was the same with SL or Leopard or Lion or Tiger or whatever.
You don't need rewrites, you just get rid of the most important issues and deal with them later, or possibly never. I have bug tickets open since Leopard which haven't been fixed yet, so that makes 3 major OS releases and same bugs still are there. If you are new to bug reporting, get used to it. There are thousands of those like yours and some of them will never be fixed. This isn't only for OS X either, it's the same way with every OS out there.