Sure you can. You’ll end up with HFS+. Nothing keeping you from that.
APFS is only enforced on pure-SSD systems, and even then can be circumvented.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Seeds Fifth Beta of macOS High Sierra 10.13.3 to Developers [Update: Public Beta Available]
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Sure you can. You’ll end up with HFS+. Nothing keeping you from that.
APFS is only enforced on pure-SSD systems, and even then can be circumvented.
honestly, High Sierra is much better than Sierra imo. I remember there were graphic bugs in Sierra for a long long time (they fixed them only in x.x.3 or 4 even). plus thanks to Metal 2 the UI is no longer laggy in High Sierra. also I didn’t really notice a faster battery drain except when i’m using heavy apps.
Now when each Apple introduce new MacOS, I'm not instantly installing in main production machine, instead I'll test in spare machine and evaluate how much "usefulness" in their OS. Even I'm still haven't High Sierra installed.
Yeah, I'm start to sick with annual release of MacOS. When new version available it will break something.
It ruin some workflow because some software not working properly / stop at all. Computer operating system should not treated like this, especially in workstation machine which need stable environment. Look at some enterprise version of Windows 10, they have LTSB which don't get update very often, just security patch.
I'm start thinking it's okay for Apple separate and released paid operating system for workstation, don't get update very often, just security patch, bug fix and hardware support instead annual non-sense without serious productivity feature. Make them have so many release like Snow Leopard (10.xx.8) or more, Most annual version of MacOS now only touch 10.xx.5 release.
Literally since we lost "Big Cat" name.
OSX is best. MacOS is doomed. We need true new Snow Leopard.
Seems you don't get it, I'll explain.
In the first post you say you want a new OS every 2-3 years, you want it to be stable without bugs, this means no new features yet you replied to the other one in which you want messages in the cloud.
The next one should be really clear but you didn't see.
I will skip HS entirely, for me it's the worst version of macOS released yet. Huge battery drain, slow and unresponsive on my rMBP 2015 (had it till the previous beta). Since I reversed to Sierra, everythings perfectly fine again.
I see now he edited his post (left the 2th bolded part out), the above was the original, you might have read it afterwards, just see the bolded parts.
Eh, I beg to differ. I've been a Mac user since Mountain Lion, and I've had nothing but good luck in the releases following. Heck, even these betas of High Sierra I've been running on my late 2015 MBP have been almost flawless. Keyword almost. Have had the occasional kernel panic and odd app crash here and there, but otherwise, no major problems like others have spoke of.
Also, I couldn't help but perk up when I saw your name and profile picture and couldn't help but think "Is this guy a furry?" because (even though my profile doesn't reflect it on here) I am too! Would ya mind if I messaged ya on Telegram? Would love to get to know another fellow geeky fur!
This is precisely the path Apple has taken. macOS, iOS, tvOS, … share a kernel and many frameworks in various layers. In some, work remains to be done (e.g., Cocoa/AppKit is still needlessly different from Cocoa Touch/UIKit), and in others, we see the benefits and pitfalls of that approach (e.g. PDFKit and APFS: in both cases, macOS and iOS share the same basic component, but because the Mac version has more complex feature demands, those aspects lack polish).
We’re already getting there; it’s just a long road.
What are you talking about? Apple announced iMessages in iCloud during their keynote last year and it hasn't arrived yet. How does that have anything to do with wanting a stable OS? And how does having a stable OS not allow new features? You're not making any sense.
Some people want the cake and to eat it, too. When people clamor for more quality, they don’t necessarily intuit that it inherently means more cost and more time.
[doublepost=1516205410][/doublepost]
You’re simultaneously complaining about lack of features and lack of quality. That isn’t gonna work.
Yes, they promised a feature that’s now late. But they also get criticism for quality issues. They can only prioritize one of those. Which do you want it to be?
Seems other(s) do get what I meant.
In the old days we got a new OS every 18-24 months or so, no new features during that time, the higher the version the more stable it got.
You want a stable OS, then don't expect new features like messages during that 18-24 time period, as the above poster says, you can't have both.
Again you're not making any sense. iMessages in iCloud was announced as a feature for High Sierra. It hasn't come out yet. What does this have to do with new features not being available in a stable OS? It's supposed to be a feature of the current OS. And how did you arrive at the logic that a stable OS can't receive new features in general? The age of the OS has nothing to do with features. If that's what Apple has led you to believe then you've been seriously misinformed.
[doublepost=1516207027][/doublepost]
What in the honest heck are you talking about? I made a comment regarding stability ... and I also made a comment that a promised feature hasn't arrived yet. None of what I said has anything to do with what you're talking about. Also how in your mind did you arrive at the conclusion that a stable OS can't have new features? I wasn't even talking about that, but it's something you have brought up, but it doesn't make any sense. Are you saying Microsoft is the only company capable of updating their OS with new features without making a new operating system every year?
Yeah, I'm definitely in that camp of "where the heck is that messages in iCloud" feature too. Would be nice to have so that way if I delete message threads from one device it should in theory do it on my other devices too. I'm one of those that likes to start with a clean slate for everything at the beginning of every week (not only for the sake of cleanliness, but for the sake of saving space too) and it drives me up a wall having to do that on both my iPhone at my MacBook Pro. Hopefully in due time they'll finally get this feature incorporated into this iteration of iOS like they announced. I know good things take time, but I didn't think that it would take this much time...
This isn't as complicated as you think it is, sorry. Microsoft adds new features in their OS and they don't make a new OS every single year. The fact that you think Apple can't do this is the real issue here. And again I'd like to reiterate that all this stuff you're talking about is something I never brought up in the first place. I just said that I was curious where iMessages in iCloud is ... which isn't a crazy concern to have.
So you’d rather have the feature, but a less stable OS. Got it.
Features are literally the opposite of stability. To add features means to rework existing code to make them fit, and to de-prioritize fixing bugs. If you’re lucky, refactoring is enough. You typically aren’t lucky. So you’ve just caused new bugs in existing components, not to mention new bugs in your new feature.
In other words, you’ve made the piece of software less stable.
Nobody mentioned age.
Because stability requires avoiding changes. And features require making them.
Depends on what you mean by “new operating system”. If anything, Microsoft’s cycle is even more rapid than Apple’s now, and I think Windows 10’s quality is suffering for it.[/QUOTE]
[doublepost=1516210688][/doublepost]
You’re one to talk.
Neither does Apple, by that measure.
You first complained about quality, then about features. Pick one. To quote a smart alec, “this isn’t as complicated as you think it is, sorry.”
Uh ... what?chucker23n1 said:
And again ... I just asked what's going on with iMessages in iCloud ... a feature that announced for the current OS and has literally nothing to do with anything you're talking about.
They did, actually.
I'm not sure what you're debating at this point. It sounds like you want macOS to stay buggy for the rest of eternity.
I use Windows 10 daily and it's fine. Microsoft isn't doing a yearly overhaul of the OS every year like Apple. If Apple did what Microsoft is doing, they would have less issues because of Apple's marriage of software and hardware. They don't need to worry as much regarding compatibility because of their finite hardware variations. Everything you've basically said makes it seem like you're illustrating Apple to be extremely incompetent and incapable of doing what Microsoft is doing. Most of the new "features" of the yearly OS are minuscule and aren't exactly groundbreaking ... and many are unnecessary and superfluous.
No, I said I wish macOS was more stable and that Apple should release a new OS every 2-3 years instead of yearly to help with this. I never complained about features. I said I was concerned why iMessages in iCloud hasn't arrived yet ... a feature announced for the current OS. I'm getting pretty tired of repeating this. I would take stability over new features any day, but new features isn't something I brought up.chucker23n1 said:
That’s a fairly low strawman.
Again, if anything, Windows 10 has a much higher release pace. I don’t know what the hell you mean by „yearly overhaul“, or why you bring up hardware.
And yet you keep bringing such a feature up.
Kind of like what you've been doing. Not fun to respond to, is it?
Windows 10 stays Windows 10 and receives big patches every now and again. We're not getting Windows 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, etc.. You don't know why I'm talking about Apple's yearly new operating systems? It's the basis for this conversation and comparison. You know, the very thing we're talking about? You don't know why I'm bringing up hardware? Apple only has to maintain a working OS for a finite number devices. Windows 10 has to work on millions of different hardware configurations with drivers that are maintained by many different vendors. Apple doesn't have to worry about compatibility issues like Microsoft does, so they could take what MS is doing and build on it much more efficiently. It's baffling to me how this concept is confusing to you.
Having iMessages synced with iCloud for cross-hardware compatibility, ease of use, and less pain when restoring a device from scratch and restoring it via Tunes is neither unnecessary or superfluous. It's been a long-time coming.
Microsoft does not consider them patches. They consider each of them equivalent to a macOS release.
The point is that it's all based on a unified groundwork ... and developers can focus on keeping their app updated in that singular OS. Any users that have Windows 10 now will be able to use the same apps in Windows 10 several years from now. Whereas with macOS ... devs more often than not (especially lately) stop supporting the older OSs a couple years back (the nicer ones offer older support). So new apps might only work back to Sierra and nothing older. If Apple followed this similar upgrade path, apps will continue to work for years to come. That's all I'm trying to say. And if they followed what MS is doing, older hardware would be able to hold onto newer updates much longer. So Windows 10 and macOS, while similar, are also very much different when it comes to software compatibility. Apps in Window receive much longer support than macOS ... so if you're dependent upon a certain workflow you won't have to worry about it being disrupted.