Apple Seeds Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) 9A559

[cbetta]

no, I don't have an intel mac

I'm not sayinganyhting about it not being universal. All I'm saying is that if it takes until 10.5.1 to get the PPCs stable, that's better than delaying everything further.

Why do people think that the switch from Tiger to Leopard will break just as much as it does from XP to Vista?

Leopard is still a OS 10 build, meaning that it is for most part a simple improvement on Tiger. OS 10 worked fine on PPC for years so why wouldn't it in Leopard? Yes there are optimizations for Intel and a whole ******** of big new features that operate at a higher lever, but that will seriously not have any effect on how existing things will run on a PPC.

PS: I have been testing Leopard on 2 Macbooks and a Mac Mini G4 for a while now, and basically haven't seen any big bugs for about 3 weeks. Most of those bugs were cross platform issues, which affected both Intel and PPC.

 

[kitki83]

Why cant apple FIX THE USB problems in 10.4.10

I been using a cheap 1.1 hub for my backing up, you know how horrible that is backing up 300gigs of my files.


Will there be student discount with purchase of this or bundle offer with Mac Os X, Ilife, and iwork?

 

[mklos]

Why cant apple FIX THE USB problems in 10.4.10

I been using a cheap 1.1 hub for my backing up, you know how horrible that is backing up 300gigs of my files.


Will there be student discount with purchase of this or bundle offer with Mac Os X, Ilife, and iwork?

USB issues???? I'm not following you problem there except you're using a cheap USB 1.1 hub. Just buy a damn USB 2.0 hub.

Typically Apple does an education discount of $69 for an OS. Seriously doubt you'll see any bundles for iLife, iWork, .mac, and Leopard. At least this has never been done in the past.

 

[FJ218700]

Why do people think that the switch from Tiger to Leopard will break just as much as it does from XP to Vista?

Leopard is still a OS 10 build, meaning that it is for most part a simple improvement on Tiger. OS 10 worked fine on PPC for years so why wouldn't it in Leopard? Yes there are optimizations for Intel and a whole ******** of big new features that operate at a higher lever, but that will seriously not have any effect on how existing things will run on a PPC.

yes, but aren't they dropping support for < 800 MHz G4's?

 

[kitki83]

USB issues???? I'm not following you problem there except you're using a cheap USB 1.1 hub. Just buy a damn USB 2.0 hub.

Typically Apple does an education discount of $69 for an OS. Seriously doubt you'll see any bundles for iLife, iWork, .mac, and Leopard. At least this has never been done in the past.

No, I have all the USB ports empty, but since the patch 10.4.10 it caused USB HD/memory sticks not to read unless connected to USB hub. Dont want USB 2.0 bec I have no need. Still the hacks I done to fix it have not worked.

 

[mklos]

yes, but aren't they dropping support for < 800 MHz G4's?

I'm pretty sure with the most recent builds they are recommending you have an 800 MHz G4 or later. I had the WWDC '07 release installed on a 450 MHz G4 Cube and it ran great so I think it will run just fine on any G4 based system and the 800/900 MHz G3 systems with the proper amount of RAM.

 

[FJ218700]

I'm pretty sure with the most recent builds they are recommending you have an 800 MHz G4 or later. I had the WWDC '07 release installed on a 450 MHz G4 Cube and it ran great so I think it will run just fine on any G4 based system and the 800/900 MHz G3 systems with the proper amount of RAM.

sweet, maybe the 500 Ti will see it after all

 

[TurboSC]

It's all about the RAM baby... Apple OS' can span back on several generations of machines without any problems really.

 

[mklos]

sweet, maybe the 500 Ti will see it after all

If you put at least 512MB of RAM in it, it should run pretty good. My G4 Cube had 1GB of RAM installed.

If Apple makes it so you can't install it on anything under 800 MHz G4 there are ways around that. If you have it, or have access to it, take an external HD case and put the HD out of your Mac into it. Plug that case into a PPC Mac (not intel) that supports the OS and install the OS. Then take the HD out of the case and put it back into your Mac and it should work fine. I've installed Tiger on a couple of 233 and 333MHz iMacs that way. Its also a great way to get Leopard or Tiger for that matter on a Mac that doesn't have a DVD drive in it.

 

[Aperture]

It's all about the RAM baby... Apple OS' can span back on several generations of machines without any problems really.

Good advice.

 

[FJ218700]

If you put at least 512MB of RAM in it, it should run pretty good.

got 2x that

 

[MikeTheC]

I don't mean to be a wet blanket here or anything -- honest -- but there seems less incentive for me to get it, as a PPC user, than if I were an x86 user, especially up front and until whatever bugs that need to be worked out are worked out. I mean, I'm in no great hurry for it or anything.

I've also got a computer here in the house that's an iBook G3 14", and I'm not sure if it'll run on it or not.

 

[Aperture]

If you put at least 512MB of RAM in it, it should run pretty good.

If it will run well on a TiBook w/ 512MB of RAM - then I need to stop debating putting in 2Gb into my MBP. (as opposed to my 1 that I have now)

 

[aLoC]

C'mon Apple... no one who has ever worked in software development believes there are only two known issues in a system that size.

It's just spin because they're going to release it soon.

 

[FJ218700]

I'm pretty sure with the most recent builds they are recommending you have an 800 MHz G4 or later. I had the WWDC '07 release installed on a 450 MHz G4 Cube and it ran great so I think it will run just fine on any G4 based system and the 800/900 MHz G3 systems with the proper amount of RAM.

by the way, did it seem faster than Tiger?

 

[mklos]

If it will run well on a TiBook w/ 512MB of RAM - then I need to stop debating putting in 2Gb into my MBP. (as opposed to my 1 that I have now)

Well there are other reasons for needing more RAM. You may possibly be using apps that require more RAM. You're using PPC apps which will use more RAM to function than a PPC Mac. You're trying to run Windows using Parallels which uses a ton of RAM. You're missing the point....

 

[Mr. Dee]

Leopard is Universal, hence the large build sizes 6GB+. This is Apple's first major OS release that deals with the Intel Macs. Yes, Tiger has an Intel version, but no major changes except it being operational with Intel CPU's.

I assume there are many "under the hood" optimizations to make the Intel Macs run better. Since the future for Apple is Intel Macs, it only makes sense to further optimize it Intel CPU's. This doesn't mean it won't run on PPC Macs or that it will run like crap, but it just didn't get as much emphasis. This will eventually become a trend for all developers, not just Apple. It will take a while just like it did with Apple and developers to slowly dwindle down OS 9 (Classic) support, but it will eventually happen. You've already seen the start with Adobe's new Creative Suite being Intel Mac only and I thought I remember seeing that Microsoft Office 2008 for Mac will be Intel only as well. I could be wrong about that though.

Your conclusions are not correct. We don't know anything about Apples internal development processes when it comes to optimizing Leopard for either Intel or PPC architectures. I have even read on Insanely Mac where one reader said Leopard PPC build 9A527 on his PowerBook was faster then Leopard Intel on his MacBook Pro and MacPro. Its also hard to measure performance between PPC G4, G5 and Intel at the moment, Apple still loves the platform.

As for support, Adobe CS3 supports PowerPC, only new versions of SoundBooth and Premier do not support PowerPC. Office 2008 will be a Universal Binary, the only difference is, there will be not VBA support. The Office for Mac team has recommended that users start moving their scripts to Apple Script. Man, I'm a Windows user and I know more about Apple!

 

[mklos]

by the way, did it seem faster than Tiger?

To me it didn't seem any slower. I can't say it was faster but then again it was an early beta release of the complete features so it may be better now or it may be worse.

 

[Luap]

I don't mean to be a wet blanket here or anything -- honest -- but there seems less incentive for me to get it, as a PPC user, than if I were an x86 user, especially up front and until whatever bugs that need to be worked out are worked out. I mean, I'm in no great hurry for it or anything.

I've also got a computer here in the house that's an iBook G3 14", and I'm not sure if it'll run on it or not.

Reports i've read suggests it runs faster than 10.4 on PPC machines, even if they are short of some ram.
And no, i dont think it will work for your G3 iBook. Apple states you MUST have a G4 800mhz or better/faster mac to run it on.

Having said that.. I did see on one of those suspect torrent sites, a hack/patch that would allow a Leopard beta to run on lower spec machines. So likely this may appear for the GM too.

Again, none of this stuff I have tried myself, its just what I have been reading on my internetular travels.

 

[ckurowic]

10.5 on G5: question for developers

Out of curiosity, developers, should I see good performance with these specs?

PowerPC G5 1.6GHz
4GB RAM
256MB ATI Radeon 9600 Pro

 

[mklos]

Your conclusions are not correct. We don't know anything about Apples internal development processes when it comes to optimizing Leopard for either Intel or PPC architectures. I have even read on Insanely Mac where one reader said Leopard PPC build 9A527 on his PowerBook was faster then Leopard Intel on his MacBook Pro and MacPro. Its also hard to measure performance between PPC G4, G5 and Intel at the moment, Apple still loves the platform.

As for support, Adobe CS3 supports PowerPC, only new versions of SoundBooth and Premier do not support PowerPC. Office 2008 will be a Universal Binary, the only difference is, there will be not VBA support. The Office for Mac team has recommended that users start moving their scripts to Apple Script. Man, I'm a Windows user and I know more about Apple!

Well as a person who has experienced this first hand I can tell you my postings are accurate. Don't always believe what you read. There are too many variables to go off what someone else said.

Don't be the cocky SOB who thinks they know everything because they can read articles and take everything they read to its automatically true for every user.

I never said it was exactly true that Office '08 for Mac was Intel only, I just thought I heard rumblings somewhere that it would be. Yet, another reason why you shouldn't always believe what you read. I should have been more specific about the Adobe Creative Suite....

 

[offwidafairies]

so much specualation about the release and ship date!!
i guess it is a rumour site

 

[FJ218700]

. . .Don't always believe what you read. There are too many variables to go off what someone else said.

Don't be the cocky SOB who thinks they know everything because they can read articles and take everything they read to its automatically true for every user.

I never said it was exactly true that Office '08 for Mac was Intel only, I just thought I heard rumblings somewhere that it would be. Yet, another reason why you shouldn't always believe what you read...

best post I've read today

 

[aeropix]

i sure hope this build is gold master and it ships by mid october

I am curious, in an honest and sincere way, to know why it is so important to get this new OS so quickly. Is there something wrong with OS10.4 that so urgently needs fixing?

I honestly ask this, because I am so happy with the current 10.4.10. It does everything I could want, and is extremely stable. Everything works just fine.

In fact, though I have a 1 year old MacBook, so have quite curent hardware, I will delay upgrade until late in the new year to assure no degradation of system performance that often occurs when older machines are mated with new software.

 

[/dev/toaster]

And you are teh one who si gonna do the actual beta testing.


As I am an experienced/smart buyer, I will wait a few months until the revision comes out. I am not going to install the new OS to face a bunch of bugs and get frustrate as every one else do when they go all "desperate" to get the first realease of anything.

I will wait a bit still.

I see everybody who is running Vista (sorry, I'm just making a point) desperate. I had a friend the other day frustrate it because he just couldn't install some elements for his 3D software, MS was asking him for a bunch of things.

Of course Apple is way beyond that but again... I will wait.

I can totally understand. For me however, I can't wait to be using it for real. Timemachine is such a godsend. Last week I had major data corruption due to a bug in some backup software (go figure). After that, I realized how much timemachine is going to rock. As of current, I don't have proper backups of mine or my girlfriends Mac. I am setting up my local server to handle the timemachine repo.

I just love that timemachine works over a network.

This won't be even remotely close to the disaster that is Vista. If for some odd bizzare reason it is, I will quickly roll back to tiger. I am doing a clean install anyway. (Have to, since I am running Leopard right now LOL)