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Quarter after quarter increases of shipments indicate sales. Unless they're really over stuffing channels and channel partners are letting them do it. :rolleyes:


Wouldn't have been the first time.

http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/09/03/lenovo.believes.early.samsung.gtab.sales.very.low/

Lenovo exec claims Samsung only sold 20K Galaxy Tabs in 2010

Lenovo's Western Europe consumer product director Andrew Barrow leveled a significant accusation against Samsung at IFA on Friday. He claimed that, of Samsung's million Galaxy Tabs shipped through its first two months in 2010, only 20,000 had actually been sold. While he didn't say whether this was based on inside knowledge or just an estimate, the executive told The Guardian that Samsung was effectively channel stuffing, or shipping far more than it could realistically sell, to make it appear that the Galaxy Tab was more of a competitor to the iPad than it was at the time.
 
I disagree. As I've said, there has been a least one portable music player out there in the past that I feel is superior to the iPod it competed with (read: I don't think it was a better product).

I cannot blame Apple for making a product that sells, but I do not like the idea of the Apple iPod brand being so powerful that it severely limits the market for other players that may be cheaper and better. That is what is stopping other companies from doing the same. It stopped Microsoft didn't it? And as I've tried to imply, as much as I love my iPod touch, I'd prefer to be using my Zune HD. The interface is just that much better.

There is such a thing called too little too late. By the time Microsoft came out with a good interface that was good enough (with the Zune HD), Apple had already moved on to apps and expanding the functionality of the device. So while Microsoft, had a cool little MP3 player with a neat interact, the touch was becoming a portable computer.
 
And that applies to all the lawsuits? Even the ones that have absolutely no meaning? And what times are you talking about? Oh back in 2006?

We are in 2011 Einstein! wake up!

Creative absolutely didn't have a case against Apple then. I am not saying Apple is always innocent but the sheer stupidity in your comments and the constant apple hate is thrilling at best.
Dude, give it a rest. You got owned now go suck your thumb in the corner like a good little boy.

Yah, i looks really tough...

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LoL, if I was driking it would of come out my nose! This is awesome!
 
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There is such a thing called too little too late. By the time Microsoft came out with a good interface that was good enough (with the Zune HD), Apple had already moved on to apps and expanding the functionality of the device. So while Microsoft, had a cool little MP3 player with a neat interact, the touch was becoming a portable computer.

Thus, WP7 and Windows 8 Tablets, etc. Lateness upon lateness upon lateness.
 
Not to mention the number of models Samsung has vs Apple. I'd actually be surprised if any single Samsung model outsold any single iPhone model.

None has.

Apple fans often use this tactic of claiming that an Apple product sells more than any particular model of a competing product.

This is pure horse-hockey - because the fact that other manufacturers offer more options and choice is not a bad thing.

Samsung sells a lot more smartphones than Apple - in a fair number of different models. If no particular Samsung model sells more more than the best selling Iphone model - it means nothing. Samsung is still outselling Apple.

It reminds me of ancient history - when Apple was selling the space-egg Imacs in the toxic-colored plastic. Apple fans insisted on combining the sales figures for the SKUs for the different colors - yet not combining the HP Pavilion XXX with 256MiB RAM and a 233 MHz CPU with the HP Pavilion XXY with 512 MiB and 266 MHz (and the Pavilion XXZ and Pavilion XX* and other variants of the same system...).

HP was selling far more Pavilion XX* systems than Apple, but Apple fans claimed that Imacs were the most popular systems by this trick.

Some things don't change....
 
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Irrelevant. If Apple had more models, it wouldn't necessarily translate into more unit sales as people would diversify their purchases accross the line-up.

I'd be interested to see you support that assertion.

----------

Apple fans often use this tactic of claiming that an Apple product sells more than any particular model of a competing product.

This is pure horse-hockey - because the fact that other manufacturers offer more options and choice is not a bad thing.

Samsung sells a lot more smartphones than Apple - in a fair number of different models. If no particular Samsung model sells more more than the best selling Iphone model - it means nothing. Samsung is still outselling Apple.

It reminds me of ancient history - when Apple was selling the space-egg Imacs in the toxic-colored plastic. Apple fans insisted on combining the sales figures for the SKUs for the different colors - yet not combining the HP Pavilion XXX with 256MiB RAM and a 233 MHz CPU with the HP Pavilion XXY with 512 MiB and 266 MHz (and the Pavilion XXZ and Pavilion XX...).

HP was selling far more Pavilion XX* systems than Apple, but Apple fans claimed that Imacs were the most popular systems by this trick.

Some things don't change....

Your assertions assume that Apple wouldn't sell more than they are now if they were given the same range of offerings that Samsung now has.
 
Your assertions assume that Apple wouldn't sell more than they are now if they were given the same range of offerings that Samsung now has.

chances are they wouldn't. Just the same number of total sells would be split up among each of the models.
 
chances are they wouldn't. Just the same number of total sells would be split up among each of the models.

I'd still like to see some support for this notion. This idea assumes that Samsung would always sell more than Apple, but I don't see anyone giving any support as to why this wouldn't change if Apple changed their model to match Samsungs, given Apple's sales per model is far higher than Samsung's. Granted, sales per model would drop with a larger product spread, but as to how much is a legitimate question.

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And interesting to see you refute it.

;) See what I did there?

It's logical, but impossible to support since Apple under the late turtlenecked overlord had a horrible fear of product diversity.

Yes, I see what you did there. You and KnightWRX made a claim without supporting it, and you think this back and forth game legitimizes what you say. Either support or retract. I only stated a fact as things are now -- that iPhones sell more per model than Samsung phones. There were no claims inherent in that statement.

If you have any actual support for the statement, then I'll build a case against it, or say that you are, in fact, correct. I'm not going to waste my time if you aren't willing to do your due diligence when you're (knightWRX) the first to make a claim :rolleyes:
 
To me it's obvious that Samsung is trying to copy Apple. They're even taunting Apple about it with their product naming.

Apple is suing because they feel Samsung is creeping on their 'Look and feel' with the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 and the Samsung Galaxy S. Where have we heard 'Look and feel' before in an Apple lawsuit...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation#GEM_.22look_and_feel.22_suit
Right. So this happened years ago. But what does it have to do with Samsung?
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Ahhhh... Look at that interface... The phone itself doesn't look anything like an iPhone, but that interface is the same as that of the Samsung Galaxy S that Apple was suing over earlier this year, plus this is a phone that is nearly impossible to find in the United States... I wonder why?

Thats not the home screen, thats the app drawer.
 
Actually, better product is subjective, I should say better ideas as the iTunes store was just as important in gaining the iPod popularity.



Powerful I believe is not the right word, it was more popular.

So the popularity of the iPod is stopping other companies from selling more portable music players? Well of course it is, better come up with something equally as popular I guess, that's called competition.

So perhaps we should not allow all the good athletes to compete in any sports as it would be unfair to all the not as good athletes to lose.



Microsoft is an entirely different ball of wax and not the same thing as what Apple is doing.

Microsoft used its market share dominance to hamper competition. Just look what it did to Netscape. You could not even uninstall Internet Explorer at one point.

At least now, Microsoft comes up with its own ideas instead of cloning someone else.

I never stated my opinion that the Zen Vision:M being an overall better product is itself a fact, however, there are features of the Vision:M that are factually superior to the rival iPod's and there are (IMO) nontrivial features of the Vision:M that the rival iPod lacked.

Power was the right word to describe it. When you have a product that dominates the market and a brand people specifically pay money for, especially in the face of cheaper, arguably superior alternatives, thats power.

So the popularity of the iPod is stopping other companies from selling more portable music players? Well of course it is, better come up with something equally as popular I guess, that's called competition.

It think you missed my point. There was competition, superiorcompetition, IMO. In my eyes, the Vision:M merited more popularity than the iPod. IMO, it was a superior device that cost less money. Its a token example of why its not as simple as "come up with something more popular". A device will ever only be as popular as the consumer base makes it. If the consumer doesn't care about the device because the word "iPod" is was immediately comes to mind when they think portable music player and they're content with that, then it doesn't necessarily matter if your product offers greater value, its simply not gonna be as popular. Microsoft realized that, and its why they gave up after producing the Zune HD. I firmly believe many other high quality portable music player lines would be on the market right now if there was a realistic market for them. To me it looks like there isn't, because the consumer dollars evidently go the iPod, regardless of what the competition offers. That is what I've experience with my Zen Vision:M and my Zune HD. Its why I dislike I dislike the iPod's dominance, because I know there is potential that will be unrealized and/or unappreciated, not exactly because it "won't" exist, but because it can't exist.

Finally, it looks to me like you took my statement about stopping Microsoft out of context. I was saying the iPod's dominance stopped Microsoft from trying to compete with its Zune line. I don't know how you linked that to whatever tangent you were going off on.
 
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Apple is right here. Samsung should know better than to make a black rectangle made with glass and metal. Because Apple owns that design. Samsung should have produced a circular tablet made out of wood and cloth instead. :rolleyes:
 
Yes, I see what you did there. You and KnightWRX made a claim without supporting it, and you think this back and forth game legitimizes what you say.

But by the very nature of your question it is unsupportable.

You want us to produce sales figures for products that do not exist, and possibly will never exist.

Instead of demanding hard data - perhaps you should give us your opinions as to why you think that our opinions are wrong.
 
But by the very nature of your question it is unsupportable.

You want us to produce sales figures for products that do not exist, and possibly will never exist.

Instead of demanding hard data - perhaps you should give us your opinions as to why you think that our opinions are wrong.

Parallel examples probably do exist in the market.

Liking the goal post shift, btw. Now we are discussing opinions ;)
 
If I had IBM I'd sue the pants off Apple. Shoot, Apple wasn't even the first to coin the word "pad" referring to a tablet. IBM was. ThinkPads were originally supposed to be tablets (see this model).

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:700T

They ended up using the name for computers as well, not to mention.. tablets!

The rounded off rectangle with a dark bezel was IBM's thing also.
http://paulsdeals.com/Computer/comppics/ibm-monitor.jpg

(Not to mention Casio and others actually used black LCD bezels.. most gameboys had them... hrmm!!!
 
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Parallel examples probably do exist in the market.

Liking the goal post shift, btw. Now we are discussing opinions ;)

Then provide them. So far you are the one making stuff up.

People want iPhone or iOS they only have 3 choices (3GS, 4 and 4S)
You want Android you have a long list.
You want WP7 again long list of phone
BB - wide list.

Increase models do increase the sales but not by much more it just splits the market and a smaller share for each one.

So yes samsung would more than likely still have more sales than Apple. Sales of each iPhone would go down and at most only a minor increase in total sales.

More models just means that the person buying the phone has to compromise less to get what they want.
 
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Couldn't RIM essentially do the same and sue Amazon for infringing the looks of the Playbook with its Kindle Fire.
 
If I had IBM I'd sue the pants off Apple. Shoot, Apple wasn't even the first to coin the word "pad" referring to a tablet. IBM was. ThinkPads were originally supposed to be tablets (see this model).

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:700T

They ended up using the name for computers as well, not to mention.. tablets!

The rounded off rectangle with a dark bezel was IBM's thing also.
http://paulsdeals.com/Computer/comppics/ibm-monitor.jpg

(Not to mention Casio and others actually used black LCD bezels.. most gameboys had them... hrmm!!!

Comparing the iPads to a CRT moitor are quite different designs. CRT's are not flat, and the bezel is also flush with the screen.

Finally, it looks to me like you took my statement about stopping Microsoft out of context. I was saying the iPod's dominance stopped Microsoft from trying to compete with its Zune line. I don't know how you linked that to whatever tangent you were going off on.

Ok, looks like you were talking about something different, my mistake.
 
Then provide them. So far you are the one making stuff up.

I was asking him to provide them. It's the support for his claims. I made nothing up.

If Apple can't sell as much just by making more models (and that's what is being claimed, regardless of whether I agree or not) surely there are others out there in the same boat, which is what I'm suggesting. But instead, he regressed to saying we are discussing opinions rather than giving other examples, which is fine, because i think opinions are the truth of the matter.

People want iPhone or iOS they only have 3 choices (3GS, 4 and 4S)
You want Android you have a long list.
You want WP7 again long list of phone
BB - wide list.

Increase models do increase the sells but not by much more it just splits the market and a smaller share for each one.

So yes samsung would more than likely still have more sells than Apple. Sells of each iPhone would go down and at most only a minor increase in total sells.

This is the same conjecture as earlier, just longer. You don't provide any real reason why Apple would sell less than Samsung even if they both had the same number of models. If this is your opinion, fine. If you think it's fact, you have two options: 1) provide Apple sales numbers (as noted, this is not possible) or 2) provide a market example to make your point.

These forums are always filled with baseless conjecture from both sides, it is disappointing.

More models just means that the person buying the phone has to compromise less to get what they want.

This assumes that all these products are actually all that different. Some would argue that Samsung's are not different enough to be much more than a choice of what logo you want on the device.
 
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