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Apple Seeks Sanctions Against Samsung for Unlawful Use of Apple-Nokia Patent License Terms

Daalseth said:
At the top of the page there are tabs for Front Page, Mac Blog, iOS Blog, etc. It would be great if they added a tab for Litigation Blog so those of us that don't want to read all the stupid legal machinations could just skip it.
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They don't have a gun to your head...:p
 
samcraig said:
Not excusing Samsung... but

You can't unknow something.

If the outside council mistakenly or on purpose posted something that was accessible (but confidential) and someone sees it - they can't unsee it. So using it for negotiations really can't be "helped."

Now - here's where stupidity reigns. Even if you know the terms - shut up and just negotiate. Grandstanding that you know the terms was a fatal flaw in execution.
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Nokia: "We want $500 million for these patents".
Samsung: "We want to pay $100 million only".
Nokia: "No way. Nobody got the patents that cheap."
Samsung (knowing Apple paid $100 million): "I'm sure you sold them cheaper".
Nokia: "Not going to happen. Apple even paid us $800 million".
Samsung (knowing Apple paid $100 million): "We want the same price as Apple".
Nokia: "That's $800 million then. "

Sometimes knowing something helps in negotiation. Sometimes the other side knowing that you know something helps.

But the info was passed on within Samsung. That's not "not unknowing". That's passing on the information. You can't pass on that kind of information.
 
Not a start...but a continuing saga

Jsameds said:
It starts.



Again.
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Geez...It just never ends! :p
Don't they both have better things to do?

I own products from BOTH companies; blame is equally distributed IMHO.

I say: "Give Cook and his Samsung counterpart the gloves, and let em duke it out!"
 
samcraig said:
Also if you read the filing (not the blog post) you'll note that this is also "hearsay" - a filing based on what Nokia is stating to be the truth. So that's why Apple has filed.
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If it indeed was hearsay then it would be thrown out of court. It seems that there's more to it than that.
 
gnasher729 said:
You didn't read actually what I posted, right? It is quite common that company A gives highly confidential information to _the lawyers_ of company B, with strict instructions to not pass anything to company B itself. Everyone does it.

The lawyers then passing things on, against strict instructions by the court, that is highly unusual. It's the kind of thing that turns a lawyer into an ex-lawyer.
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or probably someone behind bar...
 
portishead said:
It's funny, I've never met a samsung fanboy in real life. On the internet, they're everywhere.

Likewise, I've met a couple people who just don't like Apple, but most people don't really care. So who are these Samsung shills and Apple haters??
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I work with several, actually. Conversations at work are just like the garbage you read on here. I don't know why they bother reading a board for Apple news.
 
samcraig said:
... and someone sees it - they can't unsee it....
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agreed, but usually one knows the subject matter of the document before opening it up to read it... if the document is a Nokia/Apple agreement, then maybe the execs shouldn't open it.

Also having "Highly Confidential -- Attorneys' Eyes Only" clearly states who should be reading it.

.
 
paul4339 said:
"Highly Confidential -- Attorneys' Eyes Only"

... so if only attorneys were able to see this info, who's attorney's gave this info to Samsung executives?

.
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Samsung's attourneys.

Both sides are obligated to share all the info they have that pertains to the case. Sometimes this includes sensitive info that bears on the case but will not be disclosed in open court.
 
calaverasgrande said:
does not bode well.
With Samsung still providing parts for Apple devices, if this fight gets much uglier it could backfire on Apple.
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How so? If Apple lets this slide, what's to stop Samsung's foundry division from passing along confidential information about the A8/A9 design to Samsung's SoC engineers?

Apple had no legal obligation to provide Samsung with details about its confidential agreements with Nokia. In fact, they may have been contractually prohibited from sharing that information. A court granted Samsung's lawyers very limited access to that information for the sole purpose of discovery in connection with the lawsuit between Apple and Samsung, and not to share with Samsung executives for their use in their own negotations with Nokia.
 
calaverasgrande said:
does not bode well.
With Samsung still providing parts for Apple devices, if this fight gets much uglier it could backfire on Apple.
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Do you really think that Samsung would say no to all of the money that they generate due to the popularity of Apple devices? I think not.
 
iKen1 said:
There's a law firm that needs to be disbarred.
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I do wonder if they are at fault in this situation. If the lawyers disclosed the information to the appropriate Samsung representatives and they illegally distribute the documents what culpability do the lawyers have? History has clearly shown that Samsung pays little regard to ethics when it interferes with their profits.
 
samcraig said:
Which is why there will be a hearing no?
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I don't think that there would be one based purely on hearsay. The information was given to the attorney, which somehow made its way to Samsung. Unless Samsung is using some sort of psychic powers then the lawyer leaked that information to someone.
 
If it isn't already, this should be a criminal complaint against Samsung's external law firm. They're the ones who will be in deep doo doo. And if Apple or Nokia can prove that they were substantially harmed monetarily in negotiations with Samsung over this, it could be a rather large judgement against that law firm, possibly bankrupting them (unless Samsung bails them out, of course).
 
samcraig said:
Also if you read the filing (not the blog post) you'll note that this is also "hearsay" - a filing based on what Nokia is stating to be the truth. So that's why Apple has filed.
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Granted I didn't read the filing, the blog post clearly describes a lot of stuff that is traceable, mail logs, people in possession of classified PDFs.
 
samcraig said:
Not excusing Samsung... but

You can't unknow something.

If the outside council mistakenly or on purpose posted something that was accessible (but confidential) and someone sees it - they can't unsee it. So using it for negotiations really can't be "helped."

Now - here's where stupidity reigns. Even if you know the terms - shut up and just negotiate. Grandstanding that you know the terms was a fatal flaw in execution.
Click to expand...

Even if it was a "mistake" that doesn't account for Sammy posting it on their FTP server and passing it around to 50 of their executives. If you are the recipient, once you get to the first part that should have been redacted and stop. You contact your attorney to correct the mistake and fess up to it. You don't pass it on to your negotiator to use in their negotiations with the third party. No. Sammy got caught cheating.... Again.
 
DaveN said:
Even if it was a "mistake" that doesn't account for Sammy posting it on their FTP server and passing it around to 50 of their executives. If you are the recipient, once you get to the first part that should have been redacted and stop. You contact your attorney to correct the mistake and fess up to it. You don't pass it on to your negotiator to use in their negotiations with the third party. No. Sammy got caught cheating.... Again.
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Perhaps I misread the filing. I read it quickly. I'm unclear as to the timing of the trickle down. Was it uploaded by the attorney to the company ftp then accessed by 50 or was it handed to one internal person at Samsung and then passed on. I'm on my cell know so not as easy to quickly check myself.
 
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