Apple Should Be in 'No Rush' on iPad 3 as RIM's PlayBook Falters

[Abazigal]

So Jobs earned the right to be a an arrogant, disrespectful douche? That makes it ok in the eyes of a loyal Apple fanatic? It sounds hypocritical to me.

How was he being disrespectful and arrogant? I watched some of his keynotes (the ones for ipad and MBA), and he was simply doing a straight comparison between his competitors products/offerings and those of his own company's, then pointing out how his products would be superior. It is not as though he made up faults that were never there, or pulling up random numbers out of his behind.

 

[AppleScruff1]

The only thing that might be benefiting Microsoft at this point is a stalled economy. If the economy was really roaring, then all the people who had waited to get a tablet would be just buying up iPads and there would be virtually no demand by the time Windows 8 tablets came out.

I wonder if people will keep their tablets as long as a computer before updating? The tablet market may change faster, especially when a good Apple alternative hits the market.

 

[KingCrimson]

I wonder if people will keep their tablets as long as a computer before updating? The tablet market may change faster, especially when a good Apple alternative hits the market.

Microsoft really has to deliver on Windows 8 as well as the hardware makers(Samsung, Asus, Dell). If they don't hit a home run by June 2012, it's all over.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Microsoft really has to deliver on Windows 8 as well as the hardware makers(Samsung, Asus, Dell). If they don't hit a home run by June 2012, it's all over.

The hardware makers are a big part of it, no doubt. I just hope Microsoft does a good job like they did with Windows 7. And if the hardware follows suit, we will have another good choice to go along with the iPad.

 

[KingCrimson]

The hardware makers are a big part of it, no doubt. I just hope Microsoft does a good job like they did with Windows 7. And if the hardware follows suit, we will have another good choice to go along with the iPad.

My point is Apple can't be allowed to have 3 full years(2010-2013) of total monopoly in tablets. If Apple gets that 3rd year, it's all over. Apple will sell a billion iPads in the next 7-8 years.

 

[Gomff]

Microsoft really has to deliver on Windows 8 as well as the hardware makers(Samsung, Asus, Dell). If they don't hit a home run by June 2012, it's all over.

I imagine Samsung will be happy to be on firmer ground, making hardware for an established ecosystem. The Windows 8 tablet PC could itself be another platform that explodes, albeit taking out a big chunk of the netbook, laptop and ultrabook markets.

When you think about it, why shouldn't you have the option to plug in a USB key, copy a file over to it and give it to a co-worker / whoever? Or pull the tablet out of a bag, put it on a stand on your desk and use it like a desktop computer with a mouse and keyboard? Why have two things that can do the same thing? That's the clever trick with Windows 8, it's not about choosing between Mouse / keyboard for serious work or Touchscreen for consumption and entertainment, it's about having the option to do both as you see fit.

The Minority Report vision of how we will interact with media and information has a lot to answer for. It looked cool but it's completely impractical to combine data retrieval with the wii.

 

[KingCrimson]

The Minority Report vision of how we will interact with media and information has a lot to answer for. It looked cool but it's completely impractical to combine data retrieval with the wii.

We're 20 years away from a holographic UI. But the touche-based concepts of swiping to another screen was essentially invented by the movie. Steve Jobs just copied it on a 2-D surface.

 

[AppleScruff1]

We're 20 years away from a holographic UI. But the touche-based concepts of swiping to another screen was essentially invented by the movie. Steve Jobs just copied it on a 2-D surface.

No way!! Steve invented it. And if he did copy, it was ok because he innovated.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Apple cant get complacent. They done that with the iphone and let Android take over.

Define "take over"

Sure.... there are more Android phones being sold per day than Apple's iPhone. And that is certainly a nice bulletpoint on a chart for them.

But most Android phone manufacturers would gladly switch places with Apple.

And other tablet manufacturers? Give up... don't sink another dime into them

The tablet race is shaping up to be like the MP3 player race...

 

[Gomff]

We're 20 years away from a holographic UI. But the touche-based concepts of swiping to another screen was essentially invented by the movie. Steve Jobs just copied it on a 2-D surface.

I think Minority Report is the reason Apple is pushing gestures. And some of us buy into the idea because it looked good on the big screen.

 

[APlotdevice]

I imagine Samsung will be happy to be on firmer ground, making hardware for an established ecosystem. The Windows 8 tablet PC could itself be another platform that explodes, albeit taking out a big chunk of the netbook, laptop and ultrabook markets.

When you think about it, why shouldn't you have the option to plug in a USB key, copy a file over to it and give it to a co-worker / whoever? Or pull the tablet out of a bag, put it on a stand on your desk and use it like a desktop computer with a mouse and keyboard? Why have two things that can do the same thing? That's the clever trick with Windows 8, it's not about choosing between Mouse / keyboard for serious work or Touchscreen for consumption and entertainment, it's about having the option to do both as you see fit.

The Minority Report vision of how we will interact with media and information has a lot to answer for. It looked cool but it's completely impractical to combine data retrieval with the wii.

But there is still a choice you do have to make: Full application compatibility and better performance with x86, or superior battery life and less weight with ARM. For this reason you could still end up owning two devices.

 

[Michael Scrip]

But there is still a choice you do have to make: Full application compatibility and better performance with x86, or superior battery life and less weight with ARM. For this reason you could still end up owning two devices.

I wonder the same thing.

Right now... people enjoy their iPad for simple tasks in a light and thin package. And they still have some sort of laptop or desktop as well.

But will people buy a Windows 8 x86 laptop.... and a Windows 8 ARM tablet? Seems kinda redundant.

Or... will something like the Transformer but running Windows be the next big thing? Laptop when you need a more "PC-like" experience... and tablet when you don't?

I agree with you.... Windows 8 tablets running on ARM will give you iPad-like weight and battery life.... but loses all the full application support that is supposed to be the biggest part of a Windows tablet...

 

[kdarling]

Re: touch gestures being inspired by Minority Report. Heck, it didn't come along until what, 2002?

Sun Microsystem's Starfire project showed touch based moving of objects back in 1993. You can see a simple example in the first few seconds of this YouTube clip. The original movie script even had pinch-to-zoom.



Also in 1993 was the VR database scene in Disclosure with Michael Douglas, where he swiped through virtual pages:



Of course, beginning in 1987, Star Trek: The Next Generation used touch panels, and even swiping motions, although it often couldn't be shown beyond static prop screens at first. (Actually, I think the 1986 movie ST IV: TVH had touch controls on a Klingon ship before it.) Note the black rounded rectangular full glass surface with metallic edge and colored icons underneath, btw. Remind you of any recent lawsuits?



And, way back in 1982, there was the original Tron movie's touch desk, also made of backlit dark glass:

 

[fertilized-egg]

Or... will something like the Transformer but running Windows be the next big thing? Laptop when you need a more "PC-like" experience... and tablet when you don't?

Is that even possible though? What I mean is that a Transformer-like Windows tablet will still have an ARM CPU, which most likely mean the full legacy compatibility is out. Without the legacy compatibility, I don't know if people will actively buy Windows tablets although I suppose Microsoft can really get heavy dev support behind them to make it a more of a success than Android devices.

I think it's entirely possible Windows 8 succeeds and fails at the same time. PCs will sell with Windows 8 whether people like it or not but Metro might fail just as Windows Phone did at this point in time. People forget how big the Windows sales volume is: Vista, often considered a failure, still sold 20 million copies in one month(!).

While I appreciate Microsoft attempting a new UI with Metro, I somehow start to get the feeling that it might keep struggling to gain any traction with end users who will simply stick with the tried&true GUI when they are working on a Windows PC, and buy an iPad when they want a touch tablet. There is just something about Metro which makes is fascinating and alienating at the same time. But MS very well could prove me wrong here.

 

[KingCrimson]

Is that even possible though? What I mean is that a Transformer-like Windows tablet will still have an ARM CPU, which most likely mean the full legacy compatibility is out. Without the legacy compatibility, I don't know if people will actively buy Windows tablets although I suppose Microsoft can really get heavy dev support behind them to make it a more of a success than Android devices.

I think it's entirely possible Windows 8 succeeds and fails at the same time. PCs will sell with Windows 8 whether people like it or not but Metro might fail just as Windows Phone did at this point in time. People forget how big the Windows sales volume is: Vista, often considered a failure, still sold 20 million copies in one month(!).

While I appreciate Microsoft attempting a new UI with Metro, I somehow start to get the feeling that it might keep struggling to gain any traction with end users who will simply stick with the tried&true GUI when they are working on a Windows PC, and buy an iPad when they want a touch tablet. There is just something about Metro which makes is fascinating and alienating at the same time. But MS very well could prove me wrong here.

Microsoft realizes that the iPad is their true enemy over time. People who had desktops but never really needed them have bought iPads. So they need to nip this in the bud. If people really just need a tablet, at least Microsoft wants some of that profit pie.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Is that even possible though? What I mean is that a Transformer-like Windows tablet will still have an ARM CPU, which most likely mean the full legacy compatibility is out. Without the legacy compatibility, I don't know if people will actively buy Windows tablets although I suppose Microsoft can really get heavy dev support behind them to make it a more of a success than Android devices.

I think it's entirely possible Windows 8 succeeds and fails at the same time. PCs will sell with Windows 8 whether people like it or not but Metro might fail just as Windows Phone did at this point in time. People forget how big the Windows sales volume is: Vista, often considered a failure, still sold 20 million copies in one month(!).

While I appreciate Microsoft attempting a new UI with Metro, I somehow start to get the feeling that it might keep struggling to gain any traction with end users who will simply stick with the tried&true GUI when they are working on a Windows PC, and buy an iPad when they want a touch tablet. There is just something about Metro which makes is fascinating and alienating at the same time. But MS very well could prove me wrong here.

Exactly.

Bonus points to Microsoft for finally thinking outside the box...

Yet... they might not succeed in the same way Apple has with the simple iPad...

 

[smoking monkey]

Oh, the Apple attack dogs are out again.

Yes really, there's a much greater sense that Microsoft are listening to their customers compared to Apple. Whilst Cupertino are working on new toys to sell and concentrating on lifestyle twitter / Facebook users, professionals are waking up to the fact that Apple don't care about them anymore. The iPad may be the only game in town right now, but Microsoft haven't spoken yet. There's a good chance that I'll be able to do actual work on a win 8 tablet because it will have a file system I can use and real applications that I won't have to buy tablet versions of.

Frankly, blinded Apple devotees such as yourself can't or won't see that because your head is too far up your own arrse. If I can do more with a windows 8 tablet than my iPad, then I'll get one. I have no issue with using the best tool for the job because I'm not an Apple apologist.

But feel free to keep drinking the kool aid.

Again, where is this humility and greater sense of listening? I still think you're talking out your arrse. Apple has always had a fixed ecosystem. MS has always been about allowing you to do whatever you want as long as you know what you are doing.

To be honest it sounds to me like you are throwing a tantrum. You didn't get the exact toy you wanted for Chrimbo so everybody's toy is crap.

I have no twitter or facebook account and I use an iPad. I'm only one person but your statement that the iPad is primarily for this is ludicrous. Again, talking out your arrse.

If you want to do "real" work on portable device why don't you buy a Air or one of the other small slate type PCs out there. They'd probably serve your needs better until Tablets become more powerful with better battery life to run such powerful apps or even wait for the win8 Tablet - I couldn't give a toss what you use.

 

[firewood]

But then when they touch down and are sat in the hotel checking and writing emails, they may also prefer to pull out a wireless keyboard & mouse and type an email more efficiently than using an onscreen touch keyboard.

Plenty of processionals are already using their iPads with a keyboard to access their Windows desktop at work. That's why RDP apps are so popular, and why VMWare and Citrix are selling so many cloud virtualizable PCs to companies.

 

[Gomff]

Again, where is this humility and greater sense of listening? I still think you're talking out your arrse. Apple has always had a fixed ecosystem. MS has always been about allowing you to do whatever you want as long as you know what you are doing.

To be honest it sounds to me like you are throwing a tantrum. You didn't get the exact toy you wanted for Chrimbo so everybody's toy is crap.

I have no twitter or facebook account and I use an iPad. I'm only one person but your statement that the iPad is primarily for this is ludicrous. Again, talking out your arrse.

If you want to do "real" work on portable device why don't you buy a Air or one of the other small slate type PCs out there. They'd probably serve your needs better until Tablets become more powerful with better battery life to run such powerful apps or even wait for the win8 Tablet - I couldn't give a toss what you use.

Shhh....The grown ups are talking.

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Plenty of processionals are already using their iPads with a keyboard to access their Windows desktop at work. That's why RDP apps are so popular, and why VMWare and Citrix are selling so many cloud virtualizable PCs to companies.

Sure, and there's obviously a market for that. But when you're thousands of miles from the office and VNC / whatever isn't practical, then what? Remote desktop technology is only good to a point but it's quite laggy.

The ARM tablets will definitely have a place for people who want long battery life and don't necessarily need powerful machines. But new Intel chips that are in the Airs are also pretty practical for tablets that need X86 architecture and a bit more power.

I think there are interesting times ahead. I can't understand people who want or expect there to be some difinitive point when Apple or Microsoft / whoever are somehow declared outright victors and there's no competition anymore. It's as if people don't want choice, they just want to be told what to buy. Competition is good for us, as is keeping an open mind.

 

[Raidersmojo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoking monkey View Post
Again, where is this humility and greater sense of listening? I still think you're talking out your arrse. Apple has always had a fixed ecosystem. MS has always been about allowing you to do whatever you want as long as you know what you are doing.

To be honest it sounds to me like you are throwing a tantrum. You didn't get the exact toy you wanted for Chrimbo so everybody's toy is crap.

I have no twitter or facebook account and I use an iPad. I'm only one person but your statement that the iPad is primarily for this is ludicrous. Again, talking out your arrse.

If you want to do "real" work on portable device why don't you buy a Air or one of the other small slate type PCs out there. They'd probably serve your needs better until Tablets become more powerful with better battery life to run such powerful apps or even wait for the win8 Tablet - I couldn't give a toss what you use.

Shhh....The grown ups are talking.

That is really classic. He slams your argument, makes you look like a tool and that is what you come back with?

How old are you? 16? That was pathetic.

 

[wovel]

No way!! Steve invented it. And if he did copy, it was ok because he innovated.

I can make movie showing me flying around in just my underwear. I could even jump up to LEO and float down, landing without even bending a blade of grass.

Do you now think making my movie reality requires innovation? So if someone invents faster than light travel, who cares, you saw it in a movie?

----------

My point is Apple can't be allowed to have 3 full years(2010-2013) of total monopoly in tablets. If Apple gets that 3rd year, it's all over. Apple will sell a billion iPads in the next 7-8 years.

Apple had many years as the dominant MP3 player manufacturer and they were also one of , if not not the leading innovator the entire time.

 

[tgc]

maybe

Windows 8 will do fine on pc's ... I am looking forward to it myself.

On a tablet ... competing against an iPad? No chance!

It doesn't take long for a change. i.e. our 'Windows based' company is deploying ipads as they're supposedly 'more secure' than android and more supportable with 'one model'. But... we're windows based and if there's a windows tablet, i can't conceive not moving towards it if it's anygood. They'll also probably be more supportable using enterprise apps like SharePoint, etc.

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A friend at work just sold his iPad 2 and got an Asus Android tablet.

Boy is he excited that he can drag/drop music onto it and doesn't have to use iTunes.

I'm curious if Microsoft will take the Apple or Android path to this. I'm betting Apple's...

 

[Gomff]

That is really classic. He slams your argument, makes you look like a tool and that is what you come back with?

How old are you? 16? That was pathetic.

I am old enough to know the difference between an intelligent discussion and a barbed, childish diatribe peppered with insults designed to provoke a reaction.

But for the record, what's pathetic is folks like you piling in on other people's arguments to try and bag some sort of glory by association.....that my friend is behaving like a proper tool.

 

[jwhite878]

My conversations with industry insiders have revealed that Apple's next iPhone will be available sometime before the end of the year.

I can haz analyst job?

 

[KingCrimson]

It doesn't take long for a change. i.e. our 'Windows based' company is deploying ipads as they're supposedly 'more secure' than android and more supportable with 'one model'. But... we're windows based and if there's a windows tablet, i can't conceive not moving towards it if it's anygood. They'll also probably be more supportable using enterprise apps like SharePoint, etc.

Microsoft will have actual minimum specs on what a Windows 8 tablet can be. I see the main OEMs being Samsung, Asus & Dell. Essentially I would expect to see Windows 8 on the Galaxy Tab hardware soon.