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What is Apple's core market though with the iPad ?

It is not business people and professionals it is school and college kids, university students and so on, the professionals and business people would go and buy a Mac Book or whatever, the iPad is a consumption device marketed at trendy youngsters, such people rarely own businesses, such people rarely are involved in important decisions in a business so there is no point in Apple creating iPad's outside of their core market.

When I was queueing outside Apple Store in Regent St for the iPad 1 almost everyone in the queue was under 25, why would Apple need to make a high end business device tablet for such people ? they bought it to play games on and listen to music and update their Facebook etc

This is merely a point of perspective. You're saying the Apple don't target professionals with the iPad, I'm saying thats because they can't target them. But some people want a tablet that can also be a more serious computer when they need it to be. On a plane, they may well just want to kick back and read an ebook or something they bought on the Kindle store, or watch a movie etc. You don't need a keyboard for this and in the comfined space of a plane it's more convenient not to have one. But then when they touch down and are sat in the hotel checking and writing emails, they may also prefer to pull out a wireless keyboard & mouse and type an email more efficiently than using an onscreen touch keyboard.

The clever thing about Windows 8 is that it plays exactly to that (huge) market. Metro is for tablet usage. The more conventional Windows UI works well with a wireless keyboard and mouse. Best of both worlds.

Apple's core market with the iPad is the only one it can be, because of their constraints with not eating into laptop sales. It's a consumption device, and a good, well designed one at that.....I have one so I'm not disagreeing with that point. But in my view it's limited, and because of that weakness, there is a Microsoft shaped gap in the market.
 
This is merely a point of perspective. You're saying the Apple don't target professionals with the iPad, I'm saying thats because they can't target them. But some people want a tablet that can also be a more serious computer when they need it to be. On a plane, they may well just want to kick back and read an ebook or something they bought on the Kindle store, or watch a movie etc. You don't need a keyboard for this and in the comfined space of a plane it's more convenient not to have one. But then when they touch down and are sat in the hotel checking and writing emails, they may also prefer to pull out a wireless keyboard & mouse and type an email more efficiently than using an onscreen touch keyboard.

The clever thing about Windows 8 is that it plays exactly to that (huge) market. Metro is for tablet usage. The more conventional Windows UI works well with a wireless keyboard and mouse. Best of both worlds.

Apple's core market with the iPad is the only one it can be, because of their constraints with not eating into laptop sales. It's a consumption device, and a good, well designed one at that.....I have one so I'm not disagreeing with that point. But in my view it's limited, and because of that weakness, there is a Microsoft shaped gap in the market.

I can see Windows 8 powered tablet forming its own little niche, the area you mentioned above but that would merely be getting into an area Apple doesn't really exploit as opposed to eating into Apple's existing client base, i can see MS bringing new people into the market that are not satisfied with the limitations of the iPad so have avoided buying one but I don't see an MS powered device eating into the iPad's existing client base.

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I am not anti MS even though I am a self confessed Apple obsessive, I have Windows 7 at work and am quite impressed with it but I do have a hatred of Ballmer so want to see MS get their fingers burnt by Apple

Ballmer's presentations where he prances about on stage like a monkey are nothing short of embarrassing, Ballmer seems to think he is 10 years old with his on stage antics, compare that with Jobs's keynotes, charismatic but professional at the same time, I also hate Ballmer's disrespect towards Apple and his continual hyperbole.
 
I can see Windows 8 powered tablet forming its own little niche, the area you mentioned above but that would merely be getting into an area Apple doesn't really exploit as opposed to eating into Apple's existing client base, i can see MS bringing new people into the market that are not satisfied with the limitations of the iPad so have avoided buying one but I don't see an MS powered device eating into the iPad's existing client base.


Why not if it does both things? That's a great angle and you can bet Microsoft and every tablet manufacturer supporting Windows 8 are going to be working it as hard as they can. Plus, if there's a big user base then angry birds and all your other favourite apps are going to follow the money.

And this is no "little" niche by the way. We're talking about millions of business travellers who are sick of knackering their shoulders lugging heavy laptops around. Frankly, it makes the iPad market look niche in comparison.

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I am not anti MS even though I am a self confessed Apple obsessive, I have Windows 7 at work and am quite impressed with it but I do have a hatred of Ballmer so want to see MS get their fingers burnt by Apple

Ballmer's presentations where he prances about on stage like a monkey are nothing short of embarrassing, Ballmer seems to think he is 10 years old with his on stage antics, compare that with Jobs's keynotes, charismatic but professional at the same time, I also hate Ballmer's disrespect towards Apple and his continual hyperbole.

The market doesn't care about your personal feelings towards Steve Ballmer.
 
Ballmer's presentations where he prances about on stage like a monkey are nothing short of embarrassing, Ballmer seems to think he is 10 years old with his on stage antics, compare that with Jobs's keynotes, charismatic but professional at the same time, I also hate Ballmer's disrespect towards Apple and his continual hyperbole.

But Jobs mocking mocking the competition and his suppliers is classy? Jobs has shown disrespect for Microsoft publicly on many occasions, even when being interviewed with Bill Gates. But I guess that's ok because it's Steve and anything he does is ok?
 
Why not if it does both things? That's a great angle and you can bet Microsoft and every tablet manufacturer supporting Windows 8 are going to be working it as hard as they can. Plus, if there's a big user base then angry birds and all your other favourite apps are going to follow the money.

And this is no "little" niche by the way. We're talking about millions of business travellers who are sick of knackering their shoulders lugging heavy laptops around. Frankly, it makes the iPad market look niche in comparison.

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The market doesn't care about your personal feelings towards Steve Ballmer.

I could see an MS device getting probably 10% of the market, maybe 20% of the market if they are lucky, the iPad is not THAT bad as a business device.

I use Pages, Numbers and Keynote perfectly adequately, I can create PDF's, I can save documents to PDF, I can print documents via iPad, Documents2Go and OfficeHD while not perfect are perfectly good for my needs, I have Dropbox, while the iPad is not perfect as a business device it does the every day things perfectly well so I don't think a high end device from MS would really have business people deserting Apple in great numbers.

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But Jobs mocking mocking the competition and his suppliers is classy? Jobs has shown disrespect for Microsoft publicly on many occasions, even when being interviewed with Bill Gates. But I guess that's ok because it's Steve and anything he does is ok?

I remember being sent a clip of Ballmer prancing about on stage like a monkey then he saw a journalist with an iPhone, he grabbed the iPhone, harangued the journalist then proceeded to smash up the iPhone while being disrespectful to Apple, if Steve saw someone using a HTC phone or a Galaxy while he is making a keynote he would not behave like that.

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But Jobs mocking mocking the competition and his suppliers is classy? Jobs has shown disrespect for Microsoft publicly on many occasions, even when being interviewed with Bill Gates. But I guess that's ok because it's Steve and anything he does is ok?

Plus when Ballmer has achieved in the industry what Jobs has then he will have the right to be disrespectful, all Ballmer is is someone who was Bill Gates' hired help who inherited the throne, Jobs created an empire from scratch and rebuilt it from scratch almost when he came back so he has the right to be disrespectful as opposed to a hired hand who has achieved nothing.
 
Apple is going to get their ass handed to them just like they do in the PC market. Their 1 model a year is good at first but when Asus, Samsung, HTC, etc begin shipping quad core tablets and the latest and greatest tech every 6 months Apple will have no chance in hell of catching up. On top of that Android is catching up at an astonishing rate and the next version will probably match or exceed iOS in performance. Right now Apple devices beat the competition mostly due to the marketing. I've never seen an Asus Transformer commercial and have only seen Xoom, Blackberry, and Galaxy Tab commercials sporadically. I see iPad commercials nearly every commercial break on every channel.
 
I could see an MS device getting probably 10% of the market, maybe 20% of the market if they are lucky, the iPad is not THAT bad as a business device.

I use Pages, Numbers and Keynote perfectly adequately, I can create PDF's, I can save documents to PDF, I can print documents via iPad, Documents2Go and OfficeHD while not perfect are perfectly good for my needs, I have Dropbox, while the iPad is not perfect as a business device it does the every day things perfectly well so I don't think a high end device from MS would really have business people deserting Apple in great numbers.

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Please, lets be realistic here. If you had to do three hour's worth of emailing, document writing and spreadsheet creation, would you honestly prefer to do it on a touch screen as opposed to using a keyboard and mouse? Really?

Just responding to forum posts on an iPad is trying enough. Sure, it can be done but it's not enjoyable. The fact is that whilst consuming information is more preferable with a tablet form factor, creating content most certainly isn't.

Also, saving, loading and sharing files on the iPad comes up short. What happens when you've authored a PDF in an environment where there's no accessible Wifi and you want to give it to your colleague who's sat right next to you? It's a fact that even with wifi, without services like dropbox the iPad would be even more dysfunctional in this regard.

Again, I honestly don't care who gets the lion's share of the market.....I just want a better device that does more of the things I know the iPad could do. It's a powerful portable PC in all but name....Ten years ago I was doing 3D graphics with a desktop system that had half the capability that the iPad does now.....I want to see that used properly.
 
Apple is going to get their ass handed to them just like they do in the PC market. Their 1 model a year is good at first but when Asus, Samsung, HTC, etc begin shipping quad core tablets and the latest and greatest tech every 6 months Apple will have no chance in hell of catching up. On top of that Android is catching up at an astonishing rate and the next version will probably match or exceed iOS in performance. Right now Apple devices beat the competition mostly due to the marketing. I've never seen an Asus Transformer commercial and have only seen Xoom, Blackberry, and Galaxy Tab commercials sporadically. I see iPad commercials nearly every commercial break on every channel.

It isn't going to happen, most people don't care about specs and stats they care about the user experience, the availability of apps etc, here in the UK the advert for the Galaxy tablet was on tv loads and it was to the theme tune of Flash by Queen, it was making a big deal about the fact that the Galaxy has Flash, the sales of the Galaxy have been embarrassing so do people really care about the fact the iPad doesn't have Flash ? the answer is no so would the average person in the street know the difference between a quad core and an A5 ? most people think the A5 is a road here in the UK, only absolute hard core geeks know about specs and graphics chips and processors the average end user doesn't give a flying ****, if you think that specs are going to result in an iPad killer then you are not even close to being right, isn't going to happen.

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Please, lets be realistic here. If you had to do three hour's worth of emailing, document writing and spreadsheet creation, would you honestly prefer to do it on a touch screen as opposed to using a keyboard and mouse? Really?

Just responding to forum posts on an iPad is trying enough. Sure, it can be done but it's not enjoyable. The fact is that whilst consuming information is more preferable with a tablet form factor, creating content most certainly isn't.

Also, saving, loading and sharing files on the iPad comes up short. What happens when you've authored a PDF in an environment where there's no accessible Wifi and you want to give it to your colleague who's sat right next to you? It's a fact that even with wifi, without services like dropbox the iPad would be even more dysfunctional in this regard.

Again, I honestly don't care who gets the lion's share of the market.....I just want a better device that does more of the things I know the iPad could do. It's a powerful portable PC in all but name....Ten years ago I was doing 3D graphics with a desktop system that had half the capability that the iPad does now.....I want to see that used properly.

If a competitor launched what you said then Apple would only have to go out and make an iPad Pro or something, a high end iPad device that has much stronger specs than the ordinary iPad and sell it for £200 more, I am sure a more advanced iPad has been designed and probably prototyped and that Steve probably killed it because he didn't think it would sell but the second an MS device started being successful I am sure Apple would bring out an iPad Pro
 
If a competitor launched what you said then Apple would only have to go out and make an iPad Pro or something, a high end iPad device that has much stronger specs than the ordinary iPad and sell it for £200 more, I am sure a more advanced iPad has been designed and probably prototyped and that Steve probably killed it because he didn't think it would sell but the second an MS device started being successful I am sure Apple would bring out an iPad Pro

.......Which would then eat into Macbook & Macbook Air sales, as well as breaking the product partition scheme Apple has so carefully set up to preserve its product line.

I think I've made my points and we'll just have to wait and see what happens. We can't argue factually over what Apple may or may not do in response to Windows 8 Tablets gaining market share.

I do suggest you try and look at this as being about two companies rather than Steve / Tim vs Ballmer though.....It's not really giving any credibility to your argument.
 
Apple owns 95% of the real tablet market. You now actual units SOLD. They own this market and they are on their own schedule that has nothing to do with the rest of the companies. Apple only has to meet their own standards of perfectionism and demand from hungry Apple consumers.
 
And boy are they hungry, just the way Apple likes it.

The way I see it, only Amazon & Microsoft have any potential to dislodge the Apple tablet monopoly because of their eco-systems. Windows 8 on Samsung hardware + the Zune marketplace + SkyDrive can compete with Apple.
 
Plus when Ballmer has achieved in the industry what Jobs has then he will have the right to be disrespectful, all Ballmer is is someone who was Bill Gates' hired help who inherited the throne, Jobs created an empire from scratch and rebuilt it from scratch almost when he came back so he has the right to be disrespectful as opposed to a hired hand who has achieved nothing.

So Jobs earned the right to be a an arrogant, disrespectful douche? That makes it ok in the eyes of a loyal Apple fanatic? It sounds hypocritical to me.

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The way I see it, only Amazon & Microsoft have any potential to dislodge the Apple tablet monopoly because of their eco-systems. Windows 8 on Samsung hardware + the Zune marketplace + SkyDrive can compete with Apple.

Agreed, this is the only chance for some competition. Android isn't winning the public over. Windows has the opportunity to get a decent tablet market share. I think the OEM's will jump to this and leave Android out to pasture.
 
But Jobs mocking mocking the competition and his suppliers is classy? Jobs has shown disrespect for Microsoft publicly on many occasions, even when being interviewed with Bill Gates. But I guess that's ok because it's Steve and anything he does is ok?


Let's stop talking about the past. Steve is the past. Tim Cook is the future. I am looking forward to Tim taking Apple to new heights. I am confident iPad 3 will squash any competition under Tim's watch.
 
Let's stop talking about the past. Steve is the past. Tim Cook is the future. I am looking forward to Tim taking Apple to new heights. I am confident iPad 3 will squash any competition under Tim's watch.

Well I think that Steven Sinofsky is going to be CEO someday at MSFT, then all the bad feelings can be buried forever. But not until that monkey boy Ballmer is gonzo.
 
The way I see it, only Amazon & Microsoft have any potential to dislodge the Apple tablet monopoly because of their eco-systems. Windows 8 on Samsung hardware + the Zune marketplace + SkyDrive can compete with Apple.

Like I said, Ballmer has poisoned the waters with his iPhone gaffe alone. I can't understand why the MSFT board hasn't fired him.

If Windows 8 is a flop, they will.
 
If Windows 8 is a flop, they will.

Windows 8 won't flop, but it won't sell HUGE quantities because Windows 7 continues to be the "safe" choice. There is going to have to be some amazing synergy between Windows 8 + Windows Phone + Zune marketplace + Live services to really get the sales into the 100s of millions. Then there's Amazon coming out with tablets and who knows what else.
 
Windows 8 won't flop, but it won't sell HUGE quantities because Windows 7 continues to be the "safe" choice. There is going to have to be some amazing synergy between Windows 8 + Windows Phone + Zune marketplace + Live services to really get the sales into the 100s of millions. Then there's Amazon coming out with tablets and who knows what else.

All new non Apple computers will come with Windows 8 pre-installed. Probably the majority of Windows 8 users won't upgrade unless they buy a Windows phone and tablet. If it catches on with the tablet market, they could get some decent sales, but not hundreds of millions in a short time frame. But I think 100 million the first 12-18 months is possible.
 
All new non Apple computers will come with Windows 8 pre-installed. Probably the majority of Windows 8 users won't upgrade unless they buy a Windows phone and tablet. If it catches on with the tablet market, they could get some decent sales, but not hundreds of millions in a short time frame. But I think 100 million the first 12-18 months is possible.

I think anything less then 15 million per month is a horrible failure and should get Ballmer canned.
 
All new non Apple computers will come with Windows 8 pre-installed. Probably the majority of Windows 8 users won't upgrade unless they buy a Windows phone and tablet. If it catches on with the tablet market, they could get some decent sales, but not hundreds of millions in a short time frame. But I think 100 million the first 12-18 months is possible.

100 million is really going to hurt Adobe.

"Microsoft made quite a stir in the tech world on Wednesday, are they trying to follow Apple’s footsteps towards a “flash-free” world?"

http://popherald.com/news/windows-8-internet-explorer-ie-10-adobe-flash-no-more/11117

Ouch! That's almost as bad as Walt Mossberg telling the Adobe CEO "Flash sucks on Android."

Walt Mossberg Tells Adobe CEO To His Face That Flash Sucks On Android
June 3, 2011

http://www.dralnux.com/walt-mossberg-tells-adobe-ceo-to-his-face-that-flash-sucks-on-android/
 
Honestly at this point, it's an "iPad in every classroom, in every living room, in every distribution center, on every showroom floor and in every rental car agency". Apple goes for total global domination!
 
Honestly at this point, it's an "iPad in every classroom, in every living room, in every distribution center, on every showroom floor and in every rental car agency". Apple goes for total global domination!

I think the iPad will remain the dominant player, it was the first one out and the best one out. I think that Windows has a better chance at a decent market share than Android.
 
I think the iPad will remain the dominant player, it was the first one out and the best one out. I think that Windows has a better chance at a decent market share than Android.

The only thing that might be benefiting Microsoft at this point is a stalled economy. If the economy was really roaring, then all the people who had waited to get a tablet would be just buying up iPads and there would be virtually no demand by the time Windows 8 tablets came out.
 
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