Apple Signs Open Letter Opposing 'Anti-LGBTQ' State Legislation

[citysnaps]

Ah yes, Tim Cook's Apple virtue-signaling again. The same Tim Cook's Apple Inc. who does the vast majority of its hardware assembly in China. The same China where human rights are a joke.
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It's called hypocrisy for the sake of virtue-signaling. Tim Cook is the biggest hypocrite of them all.

On the subject of hypocrisy, and in relation to your strong stance on products being manufactured in China, I'm curious how you handle your consumer purchases. ie, computers, phones, tablets, smart speakers, TVs, radios, lamps, clocks, tools, office supplies, and on and on.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

That's being said, in my opinion, we should allow LGBTX to happily exist without prejudice. However, we should not openly encourage kids and teenagers to become LGBTX or to openly promote their values.

LGBT values are human values. We are not a separate species bent on destroying innocent families.

We don't encourage people to "become" LGBT. They either are or they aren't. You can't encourage someone to become gay or bi, but you can accept them and treat them humanely if they are.

 

[ravenstar]

Please explain how two consenting adults getting married harms another person? Are you suggesting that someone is going to force another person to get gay married against their will?

I'm not defending the position, but I believe the argument is something along the line of permitting same sex couples to marry grants approval of the relationship by the government, and therefore imposes the requirement to approve and recognize the marriage on others without their consent.

Of course, if everything a government did required unanimous consent and approval, governments would never be able to do anything. It's someone who cries that their personal freedoms are impinged upon because they can't control the private behavior of people they have never met that I find abhorrent.

 

[Brdl04]

The same logic that universally qualifies a fetus as an unborn child also qualifies you as a not-yet-dead corpse, therefore you should have all (and only) the rights that apply to a corpse. Right?

Yes.. The same rights apply, Ex. I cannot kill you because you inconvenience me.
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You, as a country don't seem to want to prevent the killing of born and growing children, why are you so worried about unborn foetuses.
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Me, as a sole person would like to prevent both. Why are you so willing to kill children 5 seconds before birth?

 

[BarrettF77]

You’re on to something here. When are we going to reintroduce slavery?

Did I just read you equating these two things to be the same? Wow, just wow.

I guess if you were one of those that didn’t have a say then you might have a different opinion. Oh wait. You never would have gotten a chance to voice it.... Your parents chose life, guess that’s a convenient position to be in.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

Of course, if everything a government did required unanimous consent and approval, governments would never be able to do anything. It's someone who cries that their personal freedoms are impinged upon because they can't control the private behavior of people they have never met that I find abhorrent.

A perplexing argument indeed. I might as well claim the government is forcing me to accept white supremacy by not outlawing it. Part of a functioning society is learning to live with differences that don't cause direct harm. That's why comparing same-sex marriage to abortion is fraught. People who oppose abortion are arguing that it does harm someone, i.e. the unborn child.

 

[TheWatchfulOne]

how can abortion harm a person?

Typically, in the process of performing an abortion, the unborn baby's arms and legs are ripped off and their skull is crushed and then all of its parts are vacuumed out of the womb. How is that not considered harmful?

 

[Moi Ici]

The basis of human society is the existence of the nucleus family, that is, mom, dad, and children. Any deviation from that will destabilize human society to some extent, but we can withstand some of that and absorb its impacts to some degree. Just like an aircraft carrier, it can take some torpedos and bombs without sinking, but there will be a point where the damage control team on the ship can no longer keep the ship operational.

That's being said, in my opinion, we should allow LGBTX to happily exist without prejudice. However, we should not openly encourage kids and teenagers to become LGBTX or to openly promote their values.

Seriously, you would write something like that in 2020!
I’d encourage you to grow up and have some decency towards others.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

@timhardwick how did you get through this entire article without mentioning any of the specific legislation at play?

 

[0924487]

LGBT values are human values. We are not a separate species bent on destroying innocent families.

We don't encourage people to "become" LGBT. They either are or they aren't. You can't encourage someone to become gay or bi, but you can accept them and treat them humanely if they are.

That's exactly my point... Justified in both paragraphs you quoted in part.
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Seriously, you would write something like that in 2020!
I’d encourage you to grow up and have some decency towards others.

You didn't do better than pulling spam from your community advocacy laundry list. That doesn't add value and reason to a conversation we expect from an adult whom words we value.

 

[Devyn89]

Indeed, some issues do require nuanced reflection and discussion. Unfortunately, at present, our society does not do nuance well.

For example, the matter of transgendered athletes participating in athletics against cisgender athletes poses challenges and questions of fairness that require compromises I've yet to see either side even discuss, let alone come close to finalizing to any kind of mutually respectful and compassionate conclusion.

Also, as someone with many friends and family in the LGBTQ community, I have seen it isn't really accurate to assume everyone within this broad grouping of subgroups is in lockstep on all the issues. There is much disagreement at times between people who identify with LGBTQ on the basis of sexual orientation vs. those who identify based on gender identification. Their interests do sometimes conflict. Some identify as both gay and transgender.

It is complicated. It requires nuance.

What is not complicated is that we are all human beings and we must make the effort to really listen to each other, treating each other with dignity. Nobody can instantly understand the other person's perspective. They might make assumptions, but they risk being wrong. It starts by listening to what each side feels they need and why.

At times all sides are guilty of blanking each other out. We can't go on pretending certain people don't exist or should not exist just because we don't like them. Or don't understand them. Or disagree with them. Or find them very inconvenient.

As for medical treatments for adolescents, it is concerning if we still lack all the long term safety data we need. But since I don't know what the outcomes are for early medical intervention vs. transitions made later in life, I am going to abstain from the discussion and let transgender people speak for themselves, and I will just listen.

This, all of this. Also I really appreciate your last paragraph about actually listening to trans people. I’ve heard so many misinformed (to put it nicely) cis people lecture me about how trans kids can’t make decisions about their own bodies while completely ignoring the mental health toll that can have on people.

Bottom line is if you aren’t trans and/or directly responsible for the health and well being of trans people your opinion about trans issues is meaningless and just creating noise that stops trans people from expressing our own needs and desires.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

That's exactly my point... Justified in both paragraphs you quoted in part.
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You said we shouldn't encourage kids and teens to become LGBT and I pointed out that that isn't the issue; they either are or they aren't*--you also implied that LGBT people have different values that are at odds with the values of families and non-LGBT people and I pointed out that that isn't true either.

*I would agree that parents should not make life-altering decisions about their children's bodies if their children appear to be trans, but I would go no further than this.

 

[Devyn89]

Oh look, more virtue signalling by tech companies.

I bet they won't pull out of countries that have NO human rights let alone LGBTQ rights [in some countries LGBTQ people are executed or sent to prison].
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You're kidding right? You're comparing banning killing a human life in development to enslavement?

I have a solution: Don't want a kid, don't have sex. It's not rocket science.

LOL at you on an article about gay people telling people if they don’t want kids to not have sex. I agree about them being hypocritical in regards to human rights - which means they should take drastic action against human rights violations in every area they operate.
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This.

Children aren't mature enough to make their own life-changing decisions. It's a parents job to teach a child and if a boy is confused and thinks they are a girl, it's because of poor parenting or because the LGBTQ+ community is constantly forcing THEIR views down everybody's throats.

LGBTQ+ can do what they want to themselves, but stop trying to force your beliefs on others. The government shouldn't regulate who can marry who as long as both parties are legal adults, nor should they give one group priority of the other.

But the second you try forcing LGBTQ+ education and cause further gender "dyspharia" instead of teaching that scientifically, you are biologically male or female [except in rare circumstances], you are crossing a line. At the MOST, this is an issue that should ONLY be touched on in sex ed, or offered as an OPTIONAL senior-level high-school class that doesn't have the goal of indoctrination.

Similarly religious people need to not push their beliefs on others unless somebody inquires. I don't need a blending of religion and government.

Until you can re-sleeve, much like in Altered Carbon, you are literally a man or women no matter what you think.

You’re dangerously factually incorrect here. Stop talking about things you know nothing about. And for ****s sake talking about queer people, including trans people, existing is not indoctrination. Your last statement is also just 100% wrong.
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The basis of human society is the existence of the nucleus family, that is, mom, dad, and children. Any deviation from that will destabilize human society to some extent, but we can withstand some of that and absorb its impacts to some degree. Just like an aircraft carrier, it can take some torpedos and bombs without sinking, but there will be a point where the damage control team on the ship can no longer keep the ship operational.

That's being said, in my opinion, we should allow LGBTX to happily exist without prejudice. However, we should not openly encourage kids and teenagers to become LGBTX or to openly promote their values.

Apart from the obvious homophobia here the nuclear family is less than 100 years old and only exists as a result of consumer capitalism. Historically (and in many cases around the world still presently) multi-generations of families lived together. Also the family is like an aircraft carrier has to be one of the weirdest metaphors I’ve heard yet.

Further there is no such thing as LGBT values, guess what we aren’t a monolith and we have different values from each other.

 

[Stephen.R]

Any deviation from that will destabilize human society to some extent

Hyperbole much?

I believe the argument is something along the line of permitting same sex couples to marry grants approval of the relationship by the government, and therefore imposes the requirement to approve and recognize the marriage on others without their consent.

Permitting religion grants approval of the religion by the government and imposed the requirement for me to recognise said religion without my consent.

I realise you didn’t make the argument but that’s among the least defensible/logical I’ve heard.

Me, as a sole person would like to prevent both. Why are you so willing to kill children 5 seconds before birth?

What the **** are you talking about?

firstly, to be pedantic: 5 seconds before birth it isn’t a child. It’s a foetus.

But to your point, I specifically said there’s a long gap between the period abortions are performed and when the foetus will be born.

 

[H2SO4]

LGBT people deserve equal rights, period, end of story. There is literally no valid argument anyone can make against that, not even religion because guess what, your religion should have ZERO bearing on anyone else's life.

That's a difficult one.
There's lots of talk in the news at the moment about people born as men, now competing as women in sports. Do you really think that's fair? What about the rights of the people originally born as women?
Is that not a valid argument.
That person born as a man with very likely much more developed muscles than any 'naturally' born woman may have for generations, could quite easily break records that natural woman or her ilk will be able to for decades upon decades.

The women's 100m for example is held by Flo Jo at 10.49s and consider that Usain Bolt posted 9.58s and you see how much difference muscle mass makes.

All I will say is that there is no such thing as fair. We need to try and be inclusive, strive for fair and let common sense prevail but things will NEVER be fair, or equal.

 

[blizaine]

I have no issue with LGBT rights. If a transgender adult wants to dress as a woman and get reassignment surgery, that is up to her. The problem is when LGBT rights infringe on other's rights or the protection of minors. The right to not have a biological male, in the same bathroom as my daughter. My daughter's right to not have to compete in sports with biological males. A child's right to not have life-altering hormone treatments or surgery before they're an adult or even gone through puberty. Which is absolutely incredible and should be considered child abuse.

 

[Mainyehc]

Indeed, some issues do require nuanced reflection and discussion. Unfortunately, at present, our society does not do nuance well.

Also, as someone with many friends and family in the LGBTQ community, I have seen it isn't really accurate to assume everyone within this broad grouping of subgroups is in lockstep on all the issues. There is much disagreement at times between people who identify with LGBTQ on the basis of sexual orientation vs. those who identify based on gender identification. Their interests do sometimes conflict. Some identify as both gay and transgender.

It is complicated. It requires nuance.

What is not complicated is that we are all human beings and we must make the effort to really listen to each other, treating each other with dignity. Nobody can instantly understand the other person's perspective. They might make assumptions, but they risk being wrong. It starts by listening to what each side feels they need and why.

[…]

I am going to abstain from the discussion and let transgender people speak for themselves, and I will just listen.

Exactly. Spoken like a true ally. That’s their speech standpoint to have, not ours, and these issues are far too complex to be treated in black or white terms. Your comment deserves more likes.

 

[IIGS User]

Needs a Memoji. A Memoji will fix everything...

 

[wbeasley]

Indeed, some issues do require nuanced reflection and discussion. Unfortunately, at present, our society does not do nuance well.

For example, the matter of transgendered athletes participating in athletics against cisgender athletes poses challenges and questions of fairness that require compromises I've yet to see either side even discuss, let alone come close to finalizing to any kind of mutually respectful and compassionate conclusion.

Also, as someone with many friends and family in the LGBTQ community, I have seen it isn't really accurate to assume everyone within this broad grouping of subgroups is in lockstep on all the issues. There is much disagreement at times between people who identify with LGBTQ on the basis of sexual orientation vs. those who identify based on gender identification. Their interests do sometimes conflict. Some identify as both gay and transgender.

It is complicated. It requires nuance.

What is not complicated is that we are all human beings and we must make the effort to really listen to each other, treating each other with dignity. Nobody can instantly understand the other person's perspective. They might make assumptions, but they risk being wrong. It starts by listening to what each side feels they need and why.

At times all sides are guilty of blanking each other out. We can't go on pretending certain people don't exist or should not exist just because we don't like them. Or don't understand them. Or disagree with them. Or find them very inconvenient.

As for medical treatments for adolescents, it is concerning if we still lack all the long term safety data we need. But since I don't know what the outcomes are for early medical intervention vs. transitions made later in life, I am going to abstain from the discussion and let transgender people speak for themselves, and I will just listen.

does anyone know someone who is cisgender who actually publicly identifies as that? most friends who hear the term look at me when explain it to them and they laugh and say "you mean like the way i was born?". why did we need the term?

totally agree with your first line: our society does not do nuance well. shout a few words. get a few eyeballs. forget the detail.

there is also a lot of money involved keeping us divided. diverts focus from other matters like climate or the economy.

the world didn't end (as many right wing proponents said) when same sex marriage was legalised. Wont stop them blaming coronavirus on it

spew hate speech to marginalised people, take their money. repeat. has worked for centuries.
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So, sex reassignment surgery is “mutilation” to you? Any other worldview you’d like to share?

wonder if they feel the same way about tattoos and body piercing?
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The basis of human society is the existence of the nucleus family, that is, mom, dad, and children. Any deviation from that will destabilize human society to some extent, but we can withstand some of that and absorb its impacts to some degree. Just like an aircraft carrier, it can take some torpedos and bombs without sinking, but there will be a point where the damage control team on the ship can no longer keep the ship operational.

That's being said, in my opinion, we should allow LGBTX to happily exist without prejudice. However, we should not openly encourage kids and teenagers to become LGBTX or to openly promote their values.

how exactly do you let "LGBTX" people happily exist but then want to hide them away and not "promote" their values?
you are openly promoting your values. that's your right. why do they not have the same right?

 

[wbeasley]

LGBTQI+ has become just like iTunes - one program trying to do too many things and not really meeting the original aim.

maybe time to break it up into simpler agendas?

LGB is who you sleep with.
TQI+ is who you identify as.

left-handed kids were once forced to fit into a right-handed world and made to hide their orientation to "fit the norm". thankfully we never got to "cishanded" terminology - just ambidexterous... which was often seen as a freakish skill.

no matter what category label "sums you up", we should treat everyone fairly, equally and with respect.
people, just be nice to each other.

 

[1345873]

Sad that sexuality has to be such an issue. Sad that rights for certain groups of humans still have to be fought for.

Happy that Apple and the others aren’t afraid to take a stand. If companies and executives want to make people’s lives better and allow them to have more opportunities, I’m all for it.

These companies can make their profits AND speak on social issues as well.

In the mean time by condoning in russia and china, appletim is aiding and abetting the suppression of LGBT, Uyghur, religious groups, political opponents of these totalitarian regimes. Everything for a buck..

 

[2010mini]

I swear, straights think more about gay people and gay sex than gay people do... y'all got something you wanna tell us?

straights?? WTF is straights?

 

[steve333]

Stop wasting time on things that have nothing to do with your over priced products and concentrate on putting out an OS that doesn't suck.
Can't wait until Timmy is replaced

 

[steve333]

LGBTQI+ has become just like iTunes - one program trying to do too many things and not really meeting the original aim.

maybe time to break it up into simpler agendas?

LGB is who you sleep with.
TQI+ is who you identify as.

left-handed kids were once forced to fit into a right-handed world and made to hide their orientation to "fit the norm". thankfully we never got to "cishanded" terminology - just ambidexterous... which was often seen as a freakish skill.

no matter what category label "sums you up", we should treat everyone fairly, equally and with respect.
people, just be nice to each other.

I was forced to write right handed and my handwriting has always sucked. Darn chairs with the right side attached desk.

 

[cbaca51]

discrimination is disgusting. This is why I love apple. They aren’t perfect but they’re usually always on the RIGHT side of history