Apple Signs Open Letter Opposing 'Anti-LGBTQ' State Legislation

[0924487]

Let's have my original post here for reference

The basis of human society is the existence of the nucleus family, that is, mom, dad, and children. Any deviation from that will destabilize human society to some extent, but we can withstand some of that and absorb its impacts to some degree. Just like an aircraft carrier, it can take some torpedos and bombs without sinking, but there will be a point where the damage control team on the ship can no longer keep the ship operational.

That's being said, in my opinion, we should allow LGBTX to happily exist without prejudice. However, we should not openly encourage kids and teenagers to become LGBTX or to openly promote their values.

and you said

the nuclear family is less than 100 years old and only exists as a result of consumer capitalism. Historically (and in many cases around the world still presently) multi-generations of families lived together.

You see a nucleus family can exist with other nucleus families. Just like how it works in an atomic crystal lattice. Singular or plural is beside the point. The point is, they are the same structure.

Also the family is like an aircraft carrier has to be one of the weirdest metaphors I’ve heard yet.

Read that again, the metaphor is the human society is like an aircraft carrier.

Further there is no such thing as LGBT values, guess what we aren’t a monolith and we have different values from each other.

LGBTX values are usually non-christian values. The mainstream Western society is Christian.

 

[v0lume4]

These are the bills https://www.aclu.org/legislation-affecting-lgbt-rights-across-country

Some prevent Boys who identify as girls, from competing against Girls in sports. So we don't have what we are seeing now, become the norm.

Some prevent Doctors from giving per-pubescent (ie. children) drugs that prevent adolescent hormones; thus preventing the person from naturally entering puberty. Such drugs can lead to life-long sterility, psychological, and biological disorders. We DO NOT KNOW all the future ramifications of intentionally interfering with a naturally occurring life stage (ie. adolescence). We do know that permanent sterility is a very likely scenario.

Now, a child cannot buy a home, sign a contract, get married, or enter into any legally binding arrangement - because they are a CHILD. But, they can, and are wise enough to make the decision to PERMANENTLY alter their bodies, before legal adulthood, or even entering puberty - and this is apparently offensive to people?

How about let their bodies reach maturation - then mutilate it any way you want to; when are are a legal adult, when it's entirely YOUR decision, and not when you are pressured by one parent or the other. Seems like sanity to me.

Yikes... We truly live in a clown world. Bizarro world. Whatever you want to call it. I was telling someone today that the type of stuff we see today is the kind of thing that I would have expected a satirical sitcom of the future to look like. Alas, this isn't a sitcom. This is the world we live in. Up is down. Down is up. The sky is green.

Drag queen library readings to kids. Drag queen strip dances for children (I kid you not; I saw a video just the other day. That's child molestation whether it's a drag queen or not). Boys competing in womens' sports. Women getting the life beat out of them by a DUDE in the women's UFC. Legislation trying to be passed to condemn parents that don't allow children to mutilate their bodies (was that in Canada?). Like I said, it's a clown world.

Now, I don't know if you agree with anything I just said. But I thank you for doing some digging and finding out what exactly these laws are. "Anti-LGBT" my foot.
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the nuclear family is less than 100 years old and only exists as a result of consumer capitalism

That doesn't make any sense. The "nuclear family" as a terminology be new, but it is as old as biology itself.

Look throughout the ENTIRE animal kingdom. Father, mother, offspring. Biologically, factually, and objectively devoid of biases, it is the only way to procreate. To argue that it is a man-made construct goes against the very fiber of all biology on Earth.

 

[Rojaaemon]

discrimination is disgusting. This is why I love apple.

discrimination (noun)
1. the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex: "discrimination is disgusting."
2. the ability to judge what is of high quality; good judgement or taste: "This is why I love apple."

 

[Moi Ici]

That's exactly my point... Justified in both paragraphs you quoted in part.
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You didn't do better than pulling spam from your community advocacy laundry list. That doesn't add value and reason to a conversation we expect from an adult whom words we value.

Really, you added NO value with your idiotic comment about “encouraging” kids to become gay. Seriously.. I’ll say it again. “Grow up”!!!! I came to this article with curiosity, you came to weight in with your ignorance and backwards thinking. You are harmful to lgbt and their right to exist without fear for their safety and lives.

 

[Stephen.R]

Biologically, factually, and objectively devoid of biases, it is the only way to procreate. To argue that it is a man-made construct goes against the very fiber of all biology on Earth.

Plenty of animal species require a male + female purely for the procreation part.

In some species the female eats the male after mating.

In some species the female deposits the eggs and the male cares for them.

In some species the breeding is done en-masse by a group and neither parent ever does anything for the offspring.

In some species males battle to breed with as many females as possible.



Note that not all of those attributes above are limited to non-humans either.


Is mother+father+children='family' a common way creatures on Earth raise their young? Sure. Is it the only way? Not by a long shot.

 

[laz232]

Thanks for the links. Well, the LGBTQ group really needs to clarify what provisions are they against. A generic letter hardly helps. I can't imagine a lot of people should have issues in bills that you mention here. I went through a few bills. I couldn't find any which prevented employment opportunities. Or access to general healthcare.

That's because groups like "Human Rights Campaign" are basically money and political favor groups that don't care about the people they supposedly want to help

With the release of its 990 tax form — which all tax-exempt non-profits are required to release when anyone asks for them, even via email — the Human Rights Campaign might have avoided an official IRS complaint after repeatedly refusing to turn over the documents (just like the National Organization for Marriage is doing, which HRC is quote-unquote furious about). But it also means the “largest” Gay Inc. group is disclosing that its coffers are 17 percent poorer this year after a tough economy and growing resentment with HRC leadership have cut cash flow. Luckily, if you work at HRC you wouldn’t have noticed any budget problems in your paycheck.

Digging through the forms that he’s been urging HRC to release, Michael Petrelis finds in salary and benefits, programming head David Smith is taking home $245k, (now former?) development director Cathy Nelson took home $272k, and president Joe Solmonese is still earning a cool $304k (all pictured above, L-R). That’s roughly what they earned in the previous year, thanks to a two-year pay freeze mandated by the board of directors in 2008.

HRC Took Home $7.9 Million Less In 2010. Not That Joe Solmonese Got Paid Any Less - Queerty

With the release of its 990 tax form -- which all tax-exempt non-profits are required to release when anyone asks for them, even via email -- the Human

www.queerty.com

and those are 2008 salaries (!)

Look at the comments from 2010 - the HRC has no standing in the gay "community" and we should ignore this macrumours press release which is basically meant as an ad for people that people just read the headlines and like to virtue signal.

I wish that Macrumours - if they are going to propagate this money-grab, would at least do 2 minutes of journalistic work to point to actual bills and summarise the bills. But I guess that's what scientists and engineers like myself have to do...
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[0924487]

Really, you added NO value with your idiotic comment about “encouraging” kids to become gay. Seriously.. I’ll say it again. “Grow up”!!!! I came to this article with curiosity, you came to weight in with your ignorance and backwards thinking. You are harmful to lgbt and their right to exist without fear for their safety and lives.

This is what I said

The basis of human society is the existence of the nucleus family, that is, mom, dad, and children. Any deviation from that will destabilize human society to some extent, but we can withstand some of that and absorb its impacts to some degree. Just like an aircraft carrier, it can take some torpedos and bombs without sinking, but there will be a point where the damage control team on the ship can no longer keep the ship operational.

That's being said, in my opinion, we should allow LGBTX to happily exist without prejudice. However, we should not openly encourage kids and teenagers to become LGBTX or to openly promote their values.

Specifically, I said

That's being said, in my opinion, we should allow LGBTX to happily exist without prejudice.

Which is most definitely, in your pathological opinion, "harmful to lgbt and their right to exist without fear for their safety and lives".

 

[himanshumodi]

That's because groups like "Human Rights Campaign" are basically money and political favor groups that don't care about the people they supposedly want to help

With the release of its 990 tax form — which all tax-exempt non-profits are required to release when anyone asks for them, even via email — the Human Rights Campaign might have avoided an official IRS complaint after repeatedly refusing to turn over the documents (just like the National Organization for Marriage is doing, which HRC is quote-unquote furious about). But it also means the “largest” Gay Inc. group is disclosing that its coffers are 17 percent poorer this year after a tough economy and growing resentment with HRC leadership have cut cash flow. Luckily, if you work at HRC you wouldn’t have noticed any budget problems in your paycheck.

Digging through the forms that he’s been urging HRC to release, Michael Petrelis finds in salary and benefits, programming head David Smith is taking home $245k, (now former?) development director Cathy Nelson took home $272k, and president Joe Solmonese is still earning a cool $304k (all pictured above, L-R). That’s roughly what they earned in the previous year, thanks to a two-year pay freeze mandated by the board of directors in 2008.

HRC Took Home $7.9 Million Less In 2010. Not That Joe Solmonese Got Paid Any Less - Queerty

With the release of its 990 tax form -- which all tax-exempt non-profits are required to release when anyone asks for them, even via email -- the Human

www.queerty.com

and those are 2008 salaries (!)

Look at the comments from 2010 - the HRC has no standing in the gay "community" and we should ignore this macrumours press release which is basically meant as an ad for people that people just read the headlines and like to virtue signal.

I wish that Macrumours - if they are going to propagate this money-grab, would at least do 2 minutes of journalistic work to point to actual bills and summarise the bills. But I guess that's what scientists and engineers like myself have to do...
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Isn't the invisible hand insidious. Activism has been infiltrated by capitalism as deeply as anything else.

That said, perhaps 200 - 300k salaries for activist groups heads is not so bad. It might attract more "talent" if activists know they aren't going to starve. It's hard to balance incentives of activist groups. How do they source money without getting influenced by the sources of their revenue?

 

[Moi Ici]

This is what I said


Specifically, I said

Which is most definitely, in your pathological opinion, "harmful to lgbt and their right to exist without fear for their safety and lives".

you wrote :

However, we should not openly encourage kids and teenagers to become LGBTX or to openly promote their values.

read it again...to become LGTBX...

 

[fhopper]

For a company to have inclusive HR practices is great. For a company to try to interfere with States Rights is self aggrandizement. If I were a legislator voting on any issue I would be outraged to see a multi million dollar campaign of intimidation coming from any quadrant of Industry. The usual arrogance from SV.

 

[Stephen.R]

If I were a legislator voting on any issue I would be outraged to see a multi million dollar campaign of intimidation coming from any quadrant of Industry.

So I guess you're outraged every time a member of congress votes against a bill to protect the natural environment, because they receive donations from oil companies, or against gun control, because they receive donations from arms manufacturers and the NRA?


Or are you only outraged when it's "liberal" policies?

 

[jeyf]

For a company to try to interfere with States Rights is self aggrandizement. If I were a legislator voting on any issue...

i really do not see how homosexuality is more wrong in one area of the country than the next.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Good. I like it when Apple does the right thing. The future is progressive, and they know it.

OMG! I thought this was lost when Windows decided to force a reboot for a meaningless update. I HATE WINDOWS!!! I don't know if this adds in a meaningful way to the discussion, but take it for what it is.

The past was so much better than today. Not the distant past, but the recent past (40 or so years). Back before certain political parties started in earnest to divide us. I was talking to someone about a related issue, and mentioned the sitcom 'Three's Company', and how that would ruffle peoples feathers today. The idea that a man would live with two women, pretending to be gay would freak people out. Old episodes of Saturday Night Live were mentioned too. They got away with so much that wouldn't fly today. It's like looking at a totally different country now.

United we stand, divided we fall. No truer words were ever spoken. I was in a political group on Facebook before I gave Facebook up, and the topic of where all this negativity leads came up. What is the end goal of the politicians pushing disgusting racism, sexism, and homophobia. Where do they want the country to end up, after (or as) their agenda is worked out. Do they seek a post-Shah Iran, with a totalitarian theocracy? Do they seek, ironically, a post-Castro Cuba, or a walled East Germany? The damage will be widespread. The end will cost millions of lives, and result in a total loss of what made all of us great. A new 'Dark Ages' will stall, or regress human development. At a time when humans should be trying to get ourselves off this rock, and explore the heavens, groups are using the concept of heaven to warp our entire society.

I love the movie 'Forbidden Planet'. It's an amazing look at the power of the subconscious mind. The need for revenge, the power of fear. The Matrix has a line where the planners of the matrix made a 'perfect world', and humans revolted from it. Is the reason that there haven't been any other civilizations in the universe just because of the great distances, or is it because no advancing civilization makes it past their own fears and the base need for power over others above all.

We've never been closer to nuclear annihilation. We, humanity, need to pull ourselves away from fear, from hate, from paranoia, from suspicion.
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The basis of human society is the existence of the nucleus family, that is, mom, dad, and children. Any deviation from that will destabilize human society to some extent, but we can withstand some of that and absorb its impacts to some degree. Just like an aircraft carrier, it can take some torpedos and bombs without sinking, but there will be a point where the damage control team on the ship can no longer keep the ship operational.

That's being said, in my opinion, we should allow LGBTX to happily exist without prejudice. However, we should not openly encourage kids and teenagers to become LGBTX or to openly promote their values.

That's the most bizarre statement I think I've read in a while. Your second paragraph almost makes up for the first. I haven't heard of parents 'encouraging' their children to be gay.

It's the STIGMA attached to gay parents, it's the CONDESCENSION that kids would feel from others that is damaging. Children need respect, they need emotional support, they need love, and to feel safe and valued. What hole their parents have, or use, doesn't have any bearing on any of those characteristics. A woman/woman, or man/man couple could be just as enriching for children than a 'traditional' woman/man couple. If the parents are devoted to the children and their well being, it won't matter. I can't count on both hands and feet the number of 'traditional families' that were shockingly toxic.

I'd like to point out at this point that a lot of the people tut tutting the 'death of the traditional family' are multi-divorced hypocritical religious bigots. So if the butt heads in society knitting sweaters about the 'death of their traditional ideas' would just take a deep breath, we all can get back to being members of a vibrant and supportive nation, and leader of the world. Just a thought.

 

[CarlJ]

When the dignity of one person is denied, all of us are denied.

Hubert H. Humphrey

It positively astounds me that there are people who would downvote this. I guess homophobic bigots are still a thing, in the second decade of the 21st century.

 

[Brdl04]

It positively astounds me that there are people who would downvote this. I guess homophobic bigots are still a thing, in the second decade of the 21st century.

One.. on this internet forum.

 

[0924487]

you wrote :

I think that's fair. You should only let kids become Trans as the last resort.

You should not tell a 5-year-old boy that it's okay to be on blockers to be turned into a trans-MtF girl just because girls can wear the prettiest of dresses. And can you imagine? Twirl in them! Soo beautiful and cutesy, that shouldn't even be legal...

Or a 14-year-old sexually frustrated teenage girl who "hates" all men to be lesbian, and vice versa.

It's fine for kids and teenagers to be LGB or sexually ambivalent. Just don't tell them for certain that they are LGB specifically, allow them to morph freely. I've had many friends (girls) that really liked other girls, and some had sex with each other, but in the end, most of them had long-term boyfriends. Had we tell them that they are lesbian, they may have actually become one.

I think more than a trivial amount of heterosexual adults have had some homosexual experience or wouldn't have minded should the time were right, which would make them bisexual with some ambiguity. However, in the long run, they have heterosexual relationships, especially when they settle down. What happens in the process is transient, and they should be regarded as so.

This is good. It doesn't matter what you like, what you do, or whatever that turns your crank, none of that determines what you are. And it's not our job to affirm anything in the process. Hopefully, in the long run, they will become more in tune with their body naturally, and settle into an identity and path of life that they see fit, which at this point, we should accept whatever they declare without dispute.

 

[rgbrock1]

On the subject of hypocrisy, and in relation to your strong stance on products being manufactured in China, I'm curious how you handle your consumer purchases. ie, computers, phones, tablets, smart speakers, TVs, radios, lamps, clocks, tools, office supplies, and on and on.

I purchase most of my technology from companies who produce them in China. But, I don't virtue-signal ever and don't really give a rat's a** about human rights in China.

 

[jeyf]

i always thought the future in manufacturing was to automate. Instead its low level slavery. Call it what you want so it is more difficult to see. Whatever?

where i am going with this:
American women's suffrage took almost a generation. Just saying if 50% of the population want something enough they should have it. Like the right to vote in a "democracy". So if China's masses want better conditions they can have it. If they want it enough they can have it sooner than later.

Too bad gay peeps dont want to wear your pink triangle.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

Please explain how two consenting adults getting married harms another person? Are you suggesting that someone is going to force another person to get gay married against their will?

No. Read my post carefully again, to avoid any additional and inadvertent hair-triggering.

 

[Moi Ici]

I think that's fair. You should only let kids become Trans as the last resort.

You should not tell a 5-year-old boy that it's okay to be on blockers to be turned into a trans-MtF girl just because girls can wear the prettiest of dresses. And can you imagine? Twirl in them! Soo beautiful and cutesy, that shouldn't even be legal...

Or a 14-year-old sexually frustrated teenage girl who "hates" all men to be lesbian, and vice versa.

It's fine for kids and teenagers to be LGB or sexually ambivalent. Just don't tell them for certain that they are LGB specifically, allow them to morph freely. I've had many friends (girls) that really liked other girls, and some had sex with each other, but in the end, most of them had long-term boyfriends. Had we tell them that they are lesbian, they may have actually become one.

I think less than a trivial amount of heterosexual adults have had some homosexual experience or wouldn't have minded should the time were right, which would make them bisexual with some ambiguity. However, in the long run, they have heterosexual relationships, especially when they settle down. What happened in the process was transient, and they should be regarded as so.

This is good. It doesn't matter what you like, what you do or whatever that turns your crank, none of that determines what you are. And it's not our job to affirm anything in the process. Hopefully, in the long run, they will become more in tune with their body naturally, and settle into an identity and path of life that they see fit, which at this point we should accept whatever they declare without dispute.

who is telling anyone to be gay/trans?

 

[citysnaps]

I purchase most of my technology from companies who produce them in China. But, I don't virtue-signal ever and don't really give a rat's a** about human rights in China.

How do you feel about folks who are LGBTQ being human beings like yourself, having the same rights as yourself?

 

[Mac Rules]

You're on to something here. When are we going to make circumcision illegal?

It should be. No person should have that right over another person's body.

 

[jeyf]

few 21 year old men would opt for a circumcision

 

[Mac Rules]

The problem is you literally don’t understand the situation. Not one bit. No one is mutilating anyone and the fact that you say that shows you never researched the issue.

Doctors who know far more about this than you do say that in extreme cases of gender dysphoria, puberty blockers are a better solution than letting someone go through puberty and suffer more gender dysphoria.

An entire team of medical professionals plus the individual make this determination, not one person or their parents.
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Read my response above. No one is mutilating anyone.

Whilst mutilate is perhaps too strong, children are effectively being experimented on with puberty blockers which will leave (obviously) affect them for the rest of their lives, whether they continue to present as trans or not. If a child isn't allowed to buy cigarettes or alcohol, it seems odd they can be prescribed drugs which do far more harm.

As to "medical experts" in this field, they are only human after all and are just as easily able to cave in to woke politics than be branded -phobic - we have increasing numbers of cases in the UK of trans people wanting to de-transition and suing the doctors who enabled them in the first instance as there was too little time given to reflection but almost keen willingness to provide the drugs they believed they wanted.

 

[Stephen.R]

No. Read my post carefully again, to avoid any additional and inadvertent hair-triggering.

This is the relevant part of your post.

I personally do not object to what anyone chooses to do, or whom to worship (or not), so long as it doesn't harm another person. And even that is complicated: i.e. LGBT marriage laws vs. abortion laws.

So let me ask again. How can LGBT marriage laws possibly harm someone?

children are effectively being experimented on with puberty blockers which will leave (obviously) affect them for the rest of their lives, whether they continue to present as trans or not. If a child isn't allowed to buy cigarettes or alcohol, it seems odd they can be prescribed drugs which do far more harm.

... Right why trust the doctors to present the pros and cons, and the patient to make an informed decision about whether they live the rest of their life in misery or not. Trust a guy on an Internet forum who assures us that these drugs to delay the onset of puberty are worse than cigarettes or alcohol. He's on the internet, he must be right.