Apple Silicon Mac Pro Reportedly Not Coming at WWDC, Mac Studio Refresh Likely Delayed Until M3

[bice]

Who knows exactly what Apple prioritizes from one device to the next.

I'm sure they are taking advantage of the situation, given their definitions of "advantage" not ours.

I never said "major revamp", I just think they would make some changes, which has a cost. That's all. If the return for speed bumping the Mac Studio is next to zero, it doesn't take a huge cost to say: don't bother.

If they think a M2 studio won't sell better than an M1 Studio, then you are right. They should indeed not create it.
I'm guessing it would, as I am guessing interest kind of died down as the M2 mac mini is on par with base model studio for many tasks.

And indeed, you didn't say "major revamp", it was me. My point is still that it would make sense to create chips that supports your product line, when you are in control of both. If they got a new chip and they got an ageing product line, but they can't put the new chip in the current product line right now because of cost, then somehing is wrong.

Did you notice that Apple is no longer bumping up clock speed as a way to keep interest in a model? It would seem that beefed up mac is always going to be a mac with a new chip. There is great logic in that, Apple has chosen the path where speed gains are mainly coming from more cores, not from clocking them faster.

But that also says a design goal should be easy implementation of new chips. If moving the product line into a new generation of chips is more costly than speed bumping, well then the entire design choice of multiplying cores isn't as good as first thought.

 

[prefuse07]

It's the general attitude from Apple that is so frustrating. It is now shown that they don't care one bit about the professionals. They would rather update MacBook Airs than Mac Studios or work on the Mac Pro. They did it before in 2013 with the trash Mac Pro. They are doing it again now.

Perhaps another way to look at this rumor is that apple wants to get it right this time, having learned from their admitted past mistakes with the trash can (and the apology tour).

I prefer them to take long and get it right instead of rushing something halfassed to the market, which is what was going to happen but they realized and cancelled the M1 Max Mac Pro (thank god).

There is no way that current Apple Silicon can compete with AMD or especially Nvidia, this is a proven fact and this is what they are up against. Remember this is the Pro/Workstation market we are talking about, not kiddies and grannies with their little Macbook Airs and iPads.

Apple seems to be aware of that, so let them have their time to get their tech up to speed, and release a machine that is worthy of being called Mac Pro.

As some have said -- perhaps they will make mention of it during WWDC.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

13900k is waaaaay better than what Intel used to offer. Yeah it's not as power efficient as AMD, buuut.. AMD doesnt have all the instruction sets for Adobe apps... Hackintoshes using AMD processors have a lot of issues with this. Regardless, a 13900k CPU would be a huge improvement over everything Apple has now and it'd serve them well to just release as a stop gap between the gimped Mac Studio and a proper Apple Silicon Mac Pro.

They won't, Apple is spineless.

Building its own SoC was hardly "spineless"...

 

[CWallace]

It's the general attitude from Apple that is so frustrating. It is now shown that they don't care one bit about the professionals. They would rather update MacBook Airs than Mac Studios or work on the Mac Pro. They did it before in 2013 with the trash Mac Pro. They are doing it again now.

While in general I agree with you that Apple has been very slow in refreshing the Mac Pro over the past two decades, I am going to disagree with you in this specific case of the first Apple Silicon Mac Pro.

Apple Silicon is in many ways a fundamentally different architecture than PowerPC and Intel. Apple is also developing the majority of the hardware this time and not using reference systemboard designs and components from Intel and "commodity" CPUs and GPUs from Intel and AMD. And Apple was also trying to push the envelope with an " Extreme" version of the SoC, rather than just use a Max or Ultra and call it good. To me, that shows Apple takes this product seriously, at least for it's initial iteration.

All the above being said, once Apple finally get this thing out the door, the clock will start on how often they refresh it. If it's is another five to ten years, then indeed one could successfully argue (yet again) that Apple only really listens to the most "pro of the pro" macOS users when they threaten to jump ship en masse to another platform.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

That would be a good idea cause the M3 will have Ray tracing hardware capabilities. Something that makes the difference in various content creation workflows. And if Mas wants to seriously compete with PC the have to be able to offer Super graphics performance.

You may have hit on a point we all have been missing: hardware RT and how if fits into Apple SoC.

 

[Ethosik]

While in general I agree with you that Apple has been very slow in updating the Mac Pro, I am going to disagree with you in this specific case of the first Apple Silicon Mac Pro.

Apple Silicon is in many ways a fundamentally different architecture than PowerPC and Intel. Apple is also developing the majority of the hardware this time and not using reference systemboard designs and components from Intel and "commodity" CPUs and GPUs from Intel and AMD. And Apple was also trying to push the envelope with an " Extreme" version of the SoC, rather than just use a Max or Ultra and call it good. To me, that shows Apple takes this product seriously, at least for it's initial iteration.

All the above being said, once Apple finally get this thing out the door, the clock will start on how quickly the update it. If it's is another five to ten years, then indeed one could successfully argue (yet again) that Apple only really listens to the most "pro of the pro" macOS users when they threaten to jump ship en masse to another platform.

It's not just the pro. Mac Studio should be upgraded with M2. They are not focusing on their current pro system either.

 

[Analog Kid]

Everyone seems to be blaming Apple hardware here, and that may be the case (problems with an M2 Ultra could affect the Pro and the Studio, for example), but it's also possible that they don't want to release without critical software support. The delay might be in getting those applications adapted to the new non-Intel+GPU architecture.

Usually these things debut with a few devs singing praises, and if they're still trying to realize the full benefit of the new architecture, Apple may choose to wait rather than ship with mediocre early benchmarks.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

UMA is not magic.

If your app needs lots of RAM, it will need about as much of RAM under Apple's ARM architecture as Intel's architecture.

It has the advantage of offering the GPU *lots* more RAM than most dGPU cards have, so it does have that advantage, but there are still tradeoffs.

Agreed that in the short term If your app needs lots of RAM, it will need about as much of RAM under Apple's ARM architecture as Intel's architecture. However IMO in the longer term IMO OS/apps will evolve to take advantage of Apple's much faster UMA. Both in general RAM usage as well as in in GPU performance.

 

[Analog Kid]

I wonder if Apple internally is struggling to justify the existence of the Mac Pro.

If they were, they would have called the Mac Studio the Mac Pro, taken their lumps, and been done with it. They didn't do that, which tells me they have something else cooking.

 

[blazerunner]

I always thought they'd continue the Mac pro in some capacity, for their own internal R&D alone. The Studio is a fabulous machine, but an M chip mac pro will still beat it for high demanding tasks.

And what are they going to use for tasks like developing AI and machine learning? PCs? I guess they could have their own internal line of Mac Pros, but why not put them on the market?

100% Apple has working versions of Mac OS with hardware that has Alder and Raptor Lake CPUs (with Mac OS optimized for p-cores and e-cores) including the Xeon chips as well.

Apple just wants to force you to spend as much money as possible on their gimped products. You aint getting their best.

 

[blazerunner]

Building its own SoC was hardly "spineless"...

Oh yeah, it's gonna work out real well for you in the long run. Wanna upgrade your computer? Too bad, buy a whole new machine. SSD drive failed? Too bad, it's soldered to the motherboard. Buy a whole new machine. Need more RAM?Too bad, buy a whole new machine.

Yup, Apple's really done us a huge favour.

 

[CWallace]

It's not just the pro. Mac Studio should be upgraded with M2. They are not focusing on their current pro system either.

Aye, and I've noted views on why they have not (in order of likelihood):

1. Demand for an M2 Mac Studio is not high enough to warrant it and Apple wishes to wait until M3 when the performance delta over M1 will be that much more pronounced that it was with M2 to encourage M1 Mac Studio owners to upgrade and to excite new customers to purchase it.
2. TSMC's yields on the M2 Pro/Max/Ultra wafers are (relatively) poor and all usable chips are going to Pro and Max production, leaving little to none for Ultra.
3. Demand for M2 Pro/Max is so high that all of TSMC's P/M/U wafer production capacity is going to make Pro and Max SoCs, leaving little to none for Ultra.
4. M2 Ultra has a design issue that is causing problems (draws too much power? generates too much heat? both?) and Apple is not confident to put it into general production.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

It's the general attitude from Apple that is so frustrating. It is now shown that they don't care one bit about the professionals. They would rather update MacBook Airs than Mac Studios or work on the Mac Pro. They did it before in 2013 with the trash Mac Pro. They are doing it again now.

So a Mac Studio with M1 Ultra released about a year ago was not geared towards professionals? Or the M2 Pro/Max MacBooks released just a few months ago? I’m sure their focus is on the best selling product in this category, which happens to be the MacBook. They haven’t updated the Mac Pro yet, but to say their current lineup doesn’t appeal to professionals is absurd.

 

[Ethosik]

Aye, and I've noted views on why they have not (in order of likelihood):

1. Demand for an M2 Mac Studio is not high enough to warrant it and Apple wishes to wait until M3 when the performance delta over M1 will be that much more pronounced that it was with M2 to encourage M1 Mac Studio owners to upgrade and to excite new customers to purchase it.
2. TSMC's yields on the M2 Pro/Max/Ultra wafers are (relatively) poor and all usable chips are going to Pro and Max production, leaving little to none for Ultra.
3. Demand for M2 Pro/Max is so high that all of TSMC's P/M/U wafer production capacity is going to make Pro and Max SoCs, leaving little to none for Ultra.
4. M2 Ultra has a design issue that is causing problems (draws too much power? generates too much heat? both?) and Apple is not confident to put it into general production.

And where is a current Mac with more than 128GB of RAM? This is what I need for the top end of my workflow. What pro is satisfied with only 128GB of RAM? The RAM increase of 2x M2 Max would make the upgrade worth it alone.

 

[Ethosik]

So a Mac Studio with M1 Ultra released about a year ago was not geared towards professionals? Or the M2 Pro/Max MacBooks released just a few months ago? I’m sure their focus is on the best selling product in this category, which happens to be the MacBook. They haven’t updated the Mac Pro yet, but to say their current lineup doesn’t appeal to professionals is absurd.

Where is a current Mac with more than 128GB of RAM? This is what I need. Plus the GPUs do not compete with NVIDIA cards at all which locks out a LOT of professional workflow. Why do you think I still use Intel and NVIDIA setups? I want to get rid of Windows, I cannot stand it.

 

[skippermonkey]

Just release an Intel 13900k Mac Pro and call it a day. That CPU runs circles around anything and everything Apple has to offer. Jesus christ, it's NOT that hard. A company worth 3 trillion dollars cant sell a good computer? That's embarrassing.

Apple loves making life hard for itself when it comes to the Mac Pro.

 

[Realityck]

At apple the macOS and hardware teams are not the same teams and are not privy to what they are working on. hell your managers don't even know what your working on.

So its not surprising that his leaks may contain only HW info. It means that his sources only have access to the HW details.

Thats make a lot of sense.

 

[docbop]

The Apple silicon Mac Pro will not be among the new hardware announcements at WWDC 2023, Bloomberg's Mark Gurman believes.

Speaking on the latest episode of The MacRumors Show, Gurman explained that while he still expects the new Mac Pro to launch this year, it is unlikely to emerge at WWDC in June. This is a significant delay over when the machine was originally expected to launch.

He added that the next-generation Mac Studio will likely not contain M2-series chips, with Apple postponing a refresh of the device until the M3 generation to avoid cannibalizing the new Mac Pro.

Gurman also said that the new 15-inch MacBook Air, which will contain an M2 chip, was originally supposed to launch last year. This apparently means that the 13-inch MacBook Air could run on a separate chip upgrade cycle to the 15-inch model, with the smaller device potentially set to receive the M3 chip well before it comes to the larger model. How Apple plans to align the chip upgrade cycle of the two devices in the long term remains to be seen.

Following up on an earlier report, Gurman said that he now expects the "in-air typing" text input method to be present on Apple's mixed-reality headset when it launches, despite its "finicky" experience. He added that the device's two-hour battery life may be likely to remain through successive generations of the mixed-reality headset, much like how the two standard Apple Watch model sizes have had no battery life improvements since their announcement in 2014.

For more of Gurman's latest thoughts on Apple's upcoming hardware announcements, listen to the latest episode of The MacRumors Show on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast player.

Article Link: Apple Silicon Mac Pro Reportedly Not Coming at WWDC, Mac Studio Refresh Likely Delayed Until M3

In non-Tech Report speak.... The Apple tech drought will continue until 2024.

 

[CWallace]

And where is a current Mac with more than 128GB of RAM?

At the moment, that would be because M1 appears to be limited to supporting 8GB or 16GB modules. With M2 (and M3) supporting 8GB, 12GB, 16GB and 24GB modules, an M2 Ultra or M3 Ultra could support up to 192GB (8x24GB nodules).

 

[HiVolt]

Without reading the whole thread so it might have been mentioned, I think Apple either has to do the following.

A - separate the CPU, GPU & RAM onto separate upgradeable modules

or

B - make multiple sockets/slots for multiple SoC's to be populated later if the user chooses to expand, and commit to at least a next generation upgrade support for the chassis/logic board.

 

[tdar]

I know that they want to be done with Intel. But no one has been able to do that yet. So to help your customers give them a Mac Pro with a Xeon. Not a fake one like before, but a full server class one. You can go to Apple Silicon when you figure it out. But don’t delay the Pro and the Studio because you can’t get it done now.

PS- if staying with Intel is the problem, my friends at AMD will be happy to help you with an Epic.

 

[falainber]

Obviously, scaling up the architecture developed for a phone SOC (with unified memory) is proving to be difficult. There is a limit and it looks like it has been already reached. So, no Mac Pro for you. Stick with web browsing. Use x86 machines for anything else.

 

[mr.datsun]

This rumour-mill is getting more and more 'the boy who cried wolf'. People are going to stop being interested in rumours soon.

 

[videosoul]

Yeah, I think the MP has gone the way of AirPower. If the entire platform is built around everything being built in to an SoC, what is there to be modular?

PCI cards?

 

[turbineseaplane]

I bought my Dell used for $300 with an i7-8700, 32 GB of RAM, and a GTX 1070.

I’m still rocking my 8700, 32gb RAM and RX 6800 Hackintosh

Totally great machine still for dual boot gaming and work