Well there is the new hackintosh running both Windows and Big sewer:
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Apple Silicon Macs to Feature New Boot and Recovery Interface, New Mac Sharing Mode Replacing Target Disk Mode
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The current rumors indicate that the first ARM machines will be a 13 inch MBP and a redesigned iMac.
Not really.
It outperforms....
in Geekbench...
during burst loads...
Once it beats i7s in majority of HPC oriented benchmarks however...
Do what you need to do. Craig just confirmed no Boot Camp support. You'll still be able to use Virtulalization if you really need that method.
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I disagreed because while you are right the person you were replying to was talking about something entirely different.
Has nothing to do with 32 Vs 64 bit. Catalina is a bug ridden hole and Big Sure, looks like a baby threw up jelly and ice cream all over the screen.
Sadly cloud solutions are not a cure-all (although it's hard to know that till you try). For example, I have two issues doing remote development: connectivity and security. Connectivity isn't a problem at home but it becomes an issue when trying to use a hotspot (which I do for a two month stretch each summer); even with a robust client like mosh it can be exceedingly painful at times. It's the security story that's the big deal killer though. I'd be summarily canned (and potentially dragged into court) if I was found uploading the data I work with to a cloud provider (or indeed, unencrypted filesystem locally). I know my use case is anecdotal, but I have to believe there are others in the same boat.
They certainly did mention Docker. Given the effort Docker has made to provide its MacOS port (and the maturity of ARM in the Linux world), I don't think I'd expect too many show stopping issues.
And so to your last point, I think you've hit the nail on the head. There's a lot of sound and fury about what this unreleased hardware can't do but with a years long roll-out planned, I think it's a little premature to be consigning new Apple hardware to the bin because it can't run Windows today (where "today" means before a single unit has been sold). Sure, there doesn't seem to be a viable Windows ARM distribution yet but with the potential of selling 100M units (to use the number quoted earlier) to former Bootcamp users, I'll bet MS isn't ignoring the issue. Perhaps I'm wrong; time will tell.
To comment on the article: I think this boot menu is a great idea. I've been a Mac user since System 7 and still can never remember the key combinations nor if they're supposed to be held down before or after the chime. And although it's not a concern I share, I think it points to Apple not choosing to lock the system down further (see the rampant "we're not going to be able to install non-App Store software" angst that's everywhere this week).
Docker is nice, but I've got Windows Servers and vSphere to support. Some of the older Macs can't run ESXi 6.5 so I'm stuck with the vSphere client, which I need to run under Windows.
Now, some of the services I need to run will do so in Docker, but not everything. We have six months to two years, so hopefully someone comes up with a virtualization solution for Windows on ARM. I'm still concerned about performance though. Intel's virtualization technology in their CPUs is pretty mature, addressing memory and performance. I'm not convinced Apple's ARM virtualization instructions will be comparable. We'll see. But it's pretty lame that Apple doesn't already have a solution ready. They could have at least had something in development that they could announce. Windows is still the most popular non-mobile OS on Earth.
Now, some of the services I need to run will do so in Docker, but not everything. We have six months to two years, so hopefully someone comes up with a virtualization solution for Windows on ARM. I'm still concerned about performance though. Intel's virtualization technology in their CPUs is pretty mature, addressing memory and performance. I'm not convinced Apple's ARM virtualization instructions will be comparable. We'll see. But it's pretty lame that Apple doesn't already have a solution ready. They could have at least had something in development that they could announce. Windows is still the most popular non-mobile OS on Earth.
at best Boot Camp was a nice bonus of using the same ISA as Windows. I think the pros of moving to internal chips greatly outweigh having the ability to boot Windows. Either way, running Windows is not what Macs are for, they're for running macOS.
Having the ability to run Windows is really not Apple's focus and doesn't really benefit them much. Like you said, options are nice, and there are literally hundreds of alternate solutions of varying price/quality in the broader PC market. You could skimp a bit on the Apple machine (smaller SSD since you don't need a partition for Windows? we all know how expensive Apple's SSD upgrades are) and build a cheap Windows box. If you really can't stomach buying another machine, get one of Apple's Intel machines before they phase them out, they're plenty fast and capable (except for the Air with it's non-sensical thermal solution).
As said on this thread apple could if they wanted to continue to support bootcamp on these new macs, Linux supports ARM and so does Windows if Microsoft pull their finger out and get a iso out like intel/amd.
The options you list there both compromise the experience of both machines. At the moment I could have a 16inch maxed out MBP and run both very fast, one computer to carry and very high quality. Sure for the money I could get a macbook pro 13 and a cheap HP but then both suffer. I like many others do not view having to carry 2 laptops a benefit or a good idea.
But again, with ARM currently there wouldn't be any benefits to running windows bare metal vs in a VM. I would happily take VM support but at the moment we know nothing and the sooner we do the better.
As for the pros of ARM, I still await it with great caution. I only barely remember the PPC->Intel move and that was a disaster for the poor people who brought PPC at the end. (and no one OS update does not count as support in my eyes)
Do what you need to do. Craig just confirmed no Boot Camp support. You'll still be able to use Virtulalization if you really need that method.
Well that is extremely disappointing. I just bought a 2020 MacBook Pro after they announced this, so hopefully by the time that computer needs to be replaced there will be a real solution. Otherwise I suppose it will be back to windows after two decades of Mac usage. I know that there are rumors of Microsoft adding more ARM support, so maybe there can be some positive news on the subject in the next few years from Apple as well.
Someone needs to explain this to me. Y’all currently use Macs because they run macOS *and* windows. Fine. But in the future, Macs won’t do that. So y’all say ”i’m done with Macs” as if you can buy a PC and run MacOS and windows on *that*
That makes sense. If you don’t need or want MacOS, there are plenty of other choices, and some even like those Mac alternatives better than Macs.
As it’s been for the last 40+ years in PCs, buy the machine that best fits your requirements 🤷♂️
Or maybe they'll deliver a MacBook Air with performance that rivals intel Pro machines - that'd make everyone take it seriously
Conversely, my previous employer was rapidly heading towards a situation where data had to be stored on the official servers* and accessed remotely “because data protection compliance” - with home workers encouraged to use Remote Desktop via VPN. I’m going to go out on a limb and bet you an “I told you so” that my scenario is going to be more common than your scenario on the 3+ year timescale of the ARM transition. Frankly, it makes more sense to let a professional data warehouser worry about the security-by-bureacracy (which is only going to increase), and if it means that I can fill in “All sensitive data remains on the secure server and is Somebody Else’s Problem“ on my data protection report then I’m a happy bunny.
* in the process of being outsourced to Microsoft when I left... funny how this “if this data touches the cloud, the world will end” issue softly and silently vanishes away once the Azure/AWS salesforce get into the boardroom...
Glad to hear you will still be able to disable SIP/etc.
Ha ha, epic answer! I AM THE SOURCE!!!Who remembers Hetfield's "I am the table"?Somewhat similarly, I could state I am the source
To explain: so I develop some drivers and tools for Boot Camp, and counting just two primary download mirrors these have been downloaded millions of times by unique users. Yet it's safe to assume much bigger group of Boot Camp users may not even know about them, because I never truly advertized anything. For example: I don't run any banners, ever. I don't even have any YouTube video on this topic, and neither related social network accounts. But people anyway find and download the drivers. To me personally this situation is an indirect (but still reliable) proof how big the real Boot Camp users community is. As for the daily usage: I have long-term and daily email feedback from people where it's almost always mentioned they use their Boot Camp daily (and really need it).
Source?
Attempting to shift the burden of proof to another doesn't prove that they're wrong. Nice try, though.
As much i'd miss VMWare stuff, if i even bough one of these things, the number of startup combinations drives me insane... Good for Apple finally giving users a easy menu for this,, No one should have for look up a "log book" of keys to press at start-up and see which ones do what..
Now i guess users will be overly joyful of having these on screen instead :. Hopefully less.
Now i guess users will be overly joyful of having these on screen instead :. Hopefully less.
the number does seems to be pulled out of air, considering that 2% of mac users have bootcamp set up and mac is supposedly around 110 million users. So it seems to be closer to 2 million than 10s of millions.
The Power naming scheme in that case would be for the PowerMacs, PowerBooks originally came with 68k CPUs.
Intel's Virtualization instructions are mature because they aren't very complicated. ARMv7 and ARMv8 both have similar instructions.
Windows 10 on ARM supports x86 instruction translation (similar to Apple's Rosetta2), so really all you need is Microsoft to make Win10 on ARM available at retail and you should be able to run it in a VM and use 32bit x86 Windows programs. The ball's really in Microsoft's court.