Apple Silicon Macs to Feature New Boot and Recovery Interface, New Mac Sharing Mode Replacing Target Disk Mode

[Soi Dog]

Buy a windows machine if you need it..

The question is valid for many users. I use Mac’s for 95% of my work. But I have some trading software that only works on windows and I don’t want to buy a windows machine for that little ocasional use.
But I believe Apple not answering the question means no more Boot Camp.

 

[GigabitEthernet]

Presumably 16 inch MBP will be next year now? My 2013 lives on another year

 

[farewelwilliams]

not sure how they're going to handle Mac Pro in two years.

 

[V-l-a-d-i-m-i-r]

End of October 2018, Apple themselves said the active install base was 100 Million Macs. Link

Given this official number, it seems absurd to claim that tens of millions of Mac users use Boot Camp, let alone daily.

So, just for example, if it's say 20+ millions (or roughly every fifth active user), is it that difficult to believe? Anyways, I'm not forcing anyone to believe my data...
To summarize, let's wait a bit and see what almighty APPL and MSFT will come to Office for ARM Mac is practically ready, so why not special distro of Windows for ARM... Also somewhere above I saw the post about no public availability of Windows 10 for ARM (true, there was no downloadable iso images, thus OEMs only), but this isn't so anymore: few months ago Microsoft has suddenly made some images available. Maybe not a coincidence.

 

[kissmo]

I wouldn’t buy any Mac right now.
The New ones to come will be too new, the older ones would make no sense unless you need a machine.

I have a 16’’ and a 15’’ MBP and plan to not waste money now on anything until 2-3 years from now.

what I read from this article is that there will be an AppStore only mode for Apps and an open App from anywhere.
If true, then I am sure there will be some support policies there

 

[m53rd]

Poosibility of running older versions of Mac OS may just keep me with Apple for a little longer, depending on the GPU performance we see.

That is a huge plus if you can potentially run any of the Intel specific Mac OS variants.

Will be really nice to be able to stick with Older OS's on new hardware, even with the performance hit, they'll suffer through Rosetta.

Hmmm I take this to mean that you'll be able to run any version of macOS going forward. I can't fathom Rosetta 2 being built into the firmware. And you otherwise wouldn't have it in an older OS.

 

[arn]

Does anyone know the exact title of this session? I want to watch this like a year ago!

Isn't it linked in the article? https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2020/10686/

 

[Aldaris]

Because IMO most Mac users have little need for Windows?

I have only one need for Windows and that so AutoDesk’s Revit- The only reason. I have parallels and a boot camp partition depending on my need for an individual project. Mac users have been hoping and dreaming for a native Revit, especially when AutoDesk brought AutoCAD back to the Mac-but so far nothing but crickets have come from the company. And that is what sucks-to buy a decent machine running Windows AND a Mac when previously I could get by with a Mac alone. I was ready to order a maxed out MacBook Pro 16”-seriously maxed out on everything bar storage-now I’m left wondering how long will it be supported, on one hand and, this might be the last Mac that could be a dual solution on the other.
The majority of Architecture Engineering Construction (AEC) industry have significant shifts towards Revit and leaving behind other BIM software solutions... in the end this situation just sucks for us.

 

[G4DPII]

Hmmm I take this to mean that you'll be able to run any version of macOS going forward. I can't fathom Rosetta 2 being built into the firmware. And you otherwise wouldn't have it in an older OS.

It would be stpuid to make an announcement, than as it is no different from the current situation, where you can run any version of Mac OS as far back as the machine originally shipped with.

The screen shot in the article and the watching the video, states if you disable SIP you can run any version of Mac OS ever trusted by Apple.

 

[mrjohnnyglass]

Honestly, I was kind of upset by this when they announced it, but I'm totally fine with it now.

I get that there are developers that are raising hell about this, and they should. I work in Sales for a Software Development company, and we operate exclusively on Macs building iOS/Android/Responsive Web Apps, and the questions we're getting about writing React Native apps along with Docker and VM/Windows usage is warranted.

But for me? I don't really care so much. I use all standard Apple apps, save for Chrome. Mail, Messages, Music, Calendar, all of it are the Apple apps, and I assume they'll work fine. Even when I do music production, it's on Logic Pro X, which they've already ported.

So for me? I don't care, but I understand there is a small contingent that have serious vocal questions, and if not answered correctly, maybe push people into other platforms.

I for one am excited about being able to run some iOS apps on my Mac, and have a higher level of synergy between my devices.

 

[krazzix]

How cool is it that this mode defaults to dark mode

 

[progx]

Tens of millions people use Boot Camp, and a good part of this crowd use it daily.

You're not combining the people who use Parallels and Fusion are you? Even with those numbers, it still isn't tens of millions.

From my past Macs, MacBook (Late 2008) and iMac (Late 2012), to my current MacBook Pro 13" (Early 2015) and Mac mini (late 2018), I never used it. Parallels and Fusion I have used, plus own multiple versions of the latter.

Windows 10 does run on ARM. I believe it the Surface X? Saw some strong reviews for it online, praising it over the former RT model. I would imagine Microsoft will be watching Apple's transition with eager eyes. Rumors have been swirling that they want to kick Intel out of the Surface portable line, AMD was mentioned as well. macOS will add to the fire, if this transition goes over smoothly.

 

[BvizioN]

Source?

His mind.

 

[Mr. Dee]

Even though my plan is to start a major Apple ecosystem upgrade in 2023, I might pick up one these Apple Silicon base model MacBooks for the fun of it. Would be nice if the new model is 16 inch though since I want to switch from my current 2015 13 inch MBP to a larger screen.
I suspect the first Apple Silcon Mac though might be the MacBook Air and not Pro. It will be the perfect example to show off the thermal performance versus the Intel MBPs.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Who remembers Hetfield's "I am the table"?

Somewhat similarly, I could state I am the source
To explain: so I develop some drivers and tools for Boot Camp, and counting just two primary download mirrors these have been downloaded millions of times by unique users. Yet it's safe to assume much bigger group of Boot Camp users may not even know about them, because I never truly advertized anything. For example: I don't run any banners, ever. I don't even have any YouTube video on this topic, and neither related social network accounts. But people anyway find and download the drivers. To me personally this situation is an indirect (but still reliable) proof how big the real Boot Camp users community is. As for the daily usage: I have long-term and daily email feedback from people where it's almost always mentioned they use their Boot Camp daily (and really need it).

Forgive me, but I can’t see “tens of millions of people use boot camp” anywhere here.

 

[the future]

So, just for example, if it's say 20+ millions (or roughly every fifth active user), is it that difficult to believe?

Yes, it is. IMHO, of course. The only way I could imagine it to be near this much would be if gaming on Macs via Boot Camp is a much bigger thing than I (as a non-gamer) would ever have thought. Maybe that‘s the case? What other software that tens of millions of users need isn‘t available native for Mac? (Honest question)

To summarize, let's wait a bit and see what almighty APPL and MSFT will come to

Agree. For those who want/need it I hope there will be a solution.

 

[lunarworks]

The reason several product lines changed name with the Intel shift is because they previously used "Power" in the name, which was a subtle reference to the PowerPC CPUs they used.

They explicitly changed the names to be Mac-centric, not CPU-centric. There's no reason to think those names would change now.

The PowerBook line pre-dates the PowerPC architecture by a few years. The PowerMac name was later adopted by the desktop line when they switched to PPC.

 

[jezbd1997]

Why is this always an acceptable answer for you lot?

So now instead of my overpriced Mac I now have to buy two equivalent computers costing double what I needed initially?

Say what you like about bootcamp being under used or no one uses it but come on, options are nice. Especially when we are talking about apple and the apple tax.

I for one hope we get some solution for running Windows, seeing as gaming will be dead that's eGPU use out the window so I won't need bootcamp specifically so I'll take a VM instead.

And don't reply saying buy a gaming pc, that was just one use case of needing windows bare metal.

Whatever you say, I’ve tried bootcamp and had driver issues anyway. I know some things will never work properly from the Apple hardware on windows. Would rather go for a cheaper windows laptop if I needed it

 

[DevNull0]

Buy a windows machine if you need it..

And here's the dilemma a lot of people face. I love Mac, I **need** windows. And I'm only going to carry one laptop with me. Therefore, as much as I love Mac, I simply can't use one anymore.

The only Mac-only thing I'll be losing is iMessages and I wish there was a work-around, which is a surprisingly big deal to me. I don't even send text messages from an iToy because I can't stand "typing" on the touch screens. But running Windows is not optional for me. I carried a bluetooth keyboard around with my phone before, I can try going back to that again.

 

[bryce13950]

Boot Camp will be going away. I think 10's of millions is a little high. Most colleagues of mine that have a Mac at home with their iPhone's, iPads's and use a Win Box for work, simply bring a work Win Laptop to and from home if they need to access their companies system with a Win Device. Granted, I know more people with iMacs than MBP's.

The only reason for Boot Camp any longer IMO is for the Mac user who also wants to be a "casual" Win PC gamer without wanting a separate box for each. But, that's simply my opinion.

If I have to buy two computers to run windows and macOS, then I will probably stop using macOS. I use Windows a lot for development as well as gaming. I would rather have one computer running Debian and Windows than two computers running macOS and Windows. If there is no solution to boot camp by the next time I need to buy a computer, then I will be waving goodbye to Apple.

 

[tdbrown75]

I for one am excited about being able to run some iOS apps on my Mac, and have a higher level of synergy between my devices.

Exactly this. I don't think we should discount the number of developers already developing for ARM, albeit for the iPad. Then there's the ARM based Surface. Sure there are some applications/packages that are hardcore Windows, but OS is becoming less and less of a factor.

These days software developers re expected to deliver a consistent experience across multiple platforms including Windows, Mac, IOS, ChromeOS, or Android. Look what MS has achieved with M365 for example.

Multi-platform support has also led to the widespread adoption of cloud and browser based apps. It's a very different time than it was the last time there was a processor transition. "Windows Product 2002" is either going to evolve, or it will be replaced by something else.

Tim

 

[JPSaltzman]

I'm still trying to find out what this means for Parallels and other VM. Even Parallel's blog is rather vague about the future of running Windows and other Mac OS systems with the Apple "Silicon". I specifically use Parallels to keep my 10.6.8 Snow Leopard Server running. (Yes, I still rely on that easy-to-use GUI of AppleWorks' database, which Apple never bothered replacing when they came out with the "new and improved" (ha!) "iWorks".)

Yes, I know there are supposedly "some" replacements out there (Bento was supposed to be one of them, but Claris killed that off rather early), but none have the ease of use as the AppleWorks did. I know, times are changing... and as the Mac OS and Apple get more complicated and obtuse in their execution of apps (hide and seek GUI, anyone?), it just makes it easier to launch Parallels and go back into the comforting world of Snow Leopard with its real "buttons" and easy-to-navigate file management. Plus no difficult-to-read San Francisco system font!

 

[shplock]

But did they say anything about booting to other OSes? It was a question with Windows 10 for ARM in mind. Tens of millions people use Boot Camp, and a good part of this crowd use it daily. So it's a big question, not just some 'private' question. Although, have to tell, I do have some private interest as well, because I'm deeply involved in developing improved Boot Camp-targeted drivers (Trackpad++ drivers for example). I cannot believe Apple didn't say anything about Boot Camp future yet, did they?

In the keynote they literally said and showed MacOS Big Sur running a virtual machine Linux.
So yes, you will still be able to run Windows 10 no problem. You may not be able to use bootcamp(I do not know if you can or can not) but you will be able to use other Ones so there will be no problem.

 

[Stephen.R]

Yes I suppose for basic users they don't need windows you are right.

"Subtle shade" as the kids say these days. Nice.

Are you seriously suggesting that anyone who doesn't use windows on their Mac, is a "basic user"?
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But when you make it so you can't even contact the original owner to ask if they have sold the phone or if its stolen then its useless.

Well here's a good rule of thumb:

If you come across a phone that has activation lock, just assume it's stolen.

If someone tried to sell a car without the keys or registration paperwork, no one in their right mind would treat it as anything but stolen.

 

[V-l-a-d-i-m-i-r]

Whatever you say, I’ve tried bootcamp and had driver issues anyway. I know some things will never work properly from the Apple hardware on windows. Would rather go for a cheaper windows laptop if I needed it

Most, if not all issues can be solved. And then your Intel Mac becomes one of the greatest Windows machines out there (not stopping being already great as macOS machine). Even if you spend some $$$ on supportive software from third parties, it's still just 1-2% of the price of separate good PC machine. So, old video drivers? One can get newer better versions directly from Intel, AMD, or even from third party devs who pack their better versions for community. Awful trackpad drivers? Again, you can get third-party solutions with gestures support, kinetic scroll, and so on (e.g. Trackpad++). Touch bar bugs? Again, there is third-party solution for that. iMac SD card-reader not mounted in Windows? There is a fix! OK, this isn't the path for everyone, I agree. But at the end it's possible to get the great PC, right out of your Mac. Some haters will hate, but true, Intel Mac is the great PC as well Which obviously changes now with an ARM epoch. But anyway it's cool time folks, whether we like it or not. Finally something radically new on Mac topic!