Apple 'Smokes the Competition' in Reliability Survey

[inlovewithi]

There are always things that one OS can do and the others can't (yet). So, what's your point? Would you like to compare the list of can and can't between the 2? But then, what's the point.

...and why are PC people always refer to windows 7? but not win ME, 98, XP, and ....yes, Vista. Is it safe to assume that all the older versions suck, well except XP.

Funny how like in those Mac commercials, (and Mac users) compare current macs to older Windows 95, 98. (Love bringing up problems that were common back then, and comparing them to current macs with core 2 duos.)

I'm user PC users compare macs with the latest Windows, whether it was Vista or XP. It's logical. Don't see why they would talk about Windows ME which came out in the year 2000 (or maybe 1999). XP came out in 2001, it was compared to mac for many years, if that makes you feel better.

 

[cmaier]

Funny how like in those Mac commercials, (and Mac users) compare current macs to older Windows 95, 98. (Love bringing up problems that were common back then, and comparing them to current macs with core 2 duos.)

What Mac commercials compare macs to Win 95/98 machines?

 

[RalfTheDog]

I think it's safe to say that you should buy your Apple products elsewhere or online rather than expecting the store to move. Some people may not see things the way you do.

I know too many people who will no longer go to that mall for any reason. The last time I watched a movie their, sealing panels fell down in the theater half way through the film.

Having the store in a very bad place is costing Apple reputation. The next time I need to get hardware fixed, I don't want to drive 200 miles to the next closest store. Like I said, the people at the OKC store are great. I would compare the staff with the NYC Midtown store. East St. Lewis is a safer place than the current OKC store location. I would prefer to walk through Harlem dressed in KKK drag waving a Confederate flag than walk around in their parking lot with a Mac Pro.

What Mac commercials compare macs to Win 95/98 machines?

The ones they did 10 years ago?

 

[foiden]

To be fair. I actually liked XP. It finally brought two badly separate OSes together. The 2000/NT platform and the Win 98. XP was definitely one of my favorites due to the fact that it didn't have massive memory leaks like 98, yet it had all the better driver support (unlike 2000/NT).

The only issue I have with Windows 7 is the price. Microsoft is always wierd about putting *obvious* features you want in the Home version, only in the Professional and up versions. So if you're interested in games, you probably need the XP mode ability only in professional. Since was game compatibility a *Professional* need? Even if you were to say that you could find a niche professional gamer thing, the games you normally need XP mode for, are ones outside of any professional circuit. So of course, let's get folk to spend $300 on just the operating system.

 

[MacinDoc]

Now the question is: how often do you have to seek service compared to the other companies? Sure, service may be great, but having to see them frequently means somethings seriously wrong w/ their QA.

Every year in recent memory, Consumer Reports' post-consumer surveys have shown Mac desktops to have significantly lower repair frequency than any other manufacturer. With laptops, Apple's reliability has annually been among the best, along with Sony and Lenovo. Anyway, maybe you should reread the article, because it surveyed reliability as well as customer satisfaction.

Common problem for the macbook that I bought in 2007, that I treated like gold- Cracking plastic where the lid closes, cracks in the bottom, swelling battery, unable to type because the inflated battery presses so hard against the track pad, that any light touch around it registers as a click, so if you're typing something, it's impossible since it's constantly going out of place. Always had to use the macbook without the battery, and the power cable was so easy to snap off, cutting the power. Pretty much all of the macbooks sold during that time had the same problems, and you know what? The mac still was highly rated in these category, top of the field, which leads me to believe that these number can't be trusted, due to the amount of mac users who would refuse to give their macs anything but a perfect score, even if it was just a brick.

In my experience, users of Apple products have higher than average expectations of those products (which they are entitled to, because they paid more for them), and certainly enjoy them when they are good, but are equally displeased with them when they are not. Just read a few pages of these forums and you'll see what I mean.

 

[gnasher729]

Translated. The best still sucks.

Do you want to be beaten together with a foam bat or a wooden bat? Those are your only choices.

Neither of these reflects my experience with Apple. The survey clearly shows Apple ahead of everyone else. My own experience shows that things can go wrong, but every single time (both Apple stores and non-Apple stores) problems were fixed promptly.

 

[inlovewithi]

What Mac commercials compare macs to Win 95/98 machines?

The one with the Mac guy and the PC guy. They exaggerated on problems that were common with Windows 95 and 98, that were not problems in current Windows. It's probably the number one reason why I became down on Apple, because of the pure, straight face FUD. It's also weird, the way that they seem to be dictating things so that fanboys would rush the internet and then repeat it themselves. For example, when Steve 1st called Adobe lazy, I knew immediately that it was something that was going to be repeated thousands of times by Mac users around the internet. Just pure manipulation. It's fascinating.

 

[farmboy]

Common problem for the macbook that I bought in 2007, that I treated like gold- Cracking plastic where the lid closes, cracks in the bottom, swelling battery, unable to type because the inflated battery presses so hard against the track pad, that any light touch around it registers as a click, so if you're typing something, it's impossible since it's constantly going out of place. Always had to use the macbook without the battery, and the power cable was so easy to snap off, cutting the power. Pretty much all of the macbooks sold during that time had the same problems, and you know what? The mac still was highly rated in these category, top of the field, which leads me to believe that these number can't be trusted, due to the amount of mac users who would refuse to give their macs anything but a perfect score, even if it was just a brick.

The survey says...your results are not typical. Sorry, this anecdotal story does not trump a large survey, and does not mean the numbers can't be trusted. "Pretty much all...had the same problems"? Where's your basis for this? Sorry you had a bad one, but it's not that common.

 

[cmaier]

The one with the Mac guy and the PC guy. They exaggerated on problems that were common with Windows 95 and 98, that were not problems in current Windows. It's probably the number one reason why I became down on Apple, because of the pure, straight face FUD. It's also weird, the way that they seem to be dictating things so that fanboys would rush the internet and then repeat it themselves. For example, when Steve 1st called Adobe lazy, I knew immediately that it was something that was going to be repeated thousands of times by Mac users around the internet. Just pure manipulation. It's fascinating.

Um, no. They were clearly referring to current versions of Windows. They explicitly named Vista in some, and the things they said about Vista were absolutely true. To the extent they were referring to XP in earlier commercials, those things were true, too - no person with a mac has ever gotten a virus from merely driving by a website. Millions of windows xp users (my relatives included) have been infected just by clicking on the wrong URL, without having to manually download the virus, clicking on it, and typing in a password, which is what you need to do to get infected with mac malware. Nothing in those commercials was made up by Apple - they even frequently cited press quotes about Windows.

 

[inlovewithi]

To be fair. I actually liked XP. It finally brought two badly separate OSes together. The 2000/NT platform and the Win 98. XP was definitely one of my favorites due to the fact that it didn't have massive memory leaks like 98, yet it had all the better driver support (unlike 2000/NT).

The only issue I have with Windows 7 is the price. Microsoft is always wierd about putting *obvious* features you want in the Home version, only in the Professional and up versions. So if you're interested in games, you probably need the XP mode ability only in professional. Since was game compatibility a *Professional* need? Even if you were to say that you could find a niche professional gamer thing, the games you normally need XP mode for, are ones outside of any professional circuit. So of course, let's get folk to spend $300 on just the operating system.

I'm not quite sure you understand what XP mode is. Are you talking about visualization? If so, I downloaded XP mode once, but erased it since it was quite useless, for most people I imagine. It was created basically for companies that had old custom programs that worked on XP, and that won't get updated. Other than that, I never found a program that would require XP mode. Plus, virtulazation wouldn't be good to play games, unless they were really old, in which case they can use an emulator like dosbox. I have some old games, like Return to Castle Wolfeinstein, Doom 3, Sonic Heroes, Grand Theft Auto 3, and they all work fine. I'm assuming you mean games like the original doom, don't know if they work, but again, dosbox.

 

[inlovewithi]

Every year in recent memory, Consumer Reports' post-consumer surveys have shown Mac desktops to have significantly lower repair frequency than any other manufacturer. With laptops, Apple's reliability has annually been among the best, along with Sony and Lenovo. Anyway, maybe you should reread the article, because it surveyed reliability as well as customer satisfaction.

In my experience, users of Apple products have higher than average expectations of those products (which they are entitled to, because they paid more for them), and certainly enjoy them when they are good, but are equally displeased with them when they are not. Just read a few pages of these forums and you'll see what I mean.

I would imagine that some would complain. I think even on the Apple website a lot of the stuff that Apple sells are very low rated, like 2 stars or something, but when it comes to a survey, Mac is the minority and it becomes an us against them thing, and I'm pretty sure a big chunk of them would not give Apple a low rating. For example, what I just mentioned, when I 1st bought my mac I was surprised how low the user ratings were for so many apple products, yet that doesn't reflect in the surveys.

 

[jimmyjoemccrow]

It's important to note that our survey results don't necessarily represent the opinions of a given company's customers as a whole. And because our data comes only from PCWorld readers who chose to take the survey, our results don't necessarily reflect the opinions of PCWorld readers in general.

Not the best statistical information to be gloating over.

 

[farmboy]

First, the sample was tainted. Out of 79,000 responses, I would bank on less than 300 were Apple.
About Apple fan-boy owners:
They spent a lot on the Mac, so they are "happy", weather this means the mac is performing or they let it collect dust, they are satisfied because they believe in the "value" of spending more on a product, or the more you pay, the better it must be. Of those who use a mac and are totally satisfied, they maybe the only computers that they have used for years, and so they just don't understand the value of a pc.
Also, when you conceder that the demand for PCs is far greater than macs, you come across the "cut corners" approach by many manufacturers to keep prices competitive. This does not exist on the mac because OSX is linked to hardware, and not supported on any other platform.
FYI: I have been building computers for over 15 years, and own a Mac Mini for iPhone App Development. Recently I upgraded the mac mini with a hybrid drive and more memory. Yes, I did upgrade it myself, and no, I did not use the spatula method as it damaged the case, I used the wire method. Apple does not want you to upgrade their computers, they want to have you spend money. Do I love the mac? Not really, OSX is not the easiest to use and there are so many basic things that windows 7 does that OSX does not.

Pretty silly post. You left out the key "they buy Macs just because they want to be cool" line.

And because "demand"(!) for PCs is high, the manufacturers cut corners to keep prices low? OK, I guess that whole supply and demand thing that's a staple of economics just isn't true on your planet.

Don't you have a Linux site to go bother people on?

 

[inlovewithi]

The survey says...your results are not typical. Sorry, this anecdotal story does not trump a large survey, and does not mean the numbers can't be trusted. "Pretty much all...had the same problems"? Where's your basis for this? Sorry you had a bad one, but it's not that common.

Just go to ebay and search for white macbook, (not the newer ones) read the details. Virtually all of those white macbooks have similar problems. Or simply google crack macbook. These problems are not a secret, you can ask apple.

 

[inlovewithi]

Um, no. They were clearly referring to current versions of Windows. They explicitly named Vista in some, and the things they said about Vista were absolutely true. To the extent they were referring to XP in earlier commercials, those things were true, too - no person with a mac has ever gotten a virus from merely driving by a website. Millions of windows xp users (my relatives included) have been infected just by clicking on the wrong URL, without having to manually download the virus, clicking on it, and typing in a password, which is what you need to do to get infected with mac malware. Nothing in those commercials was made up by Apple - they even frequently cited press quotes about Windows.

If you say so.

 

[a.gomez]

"Our survey doesn't distinguish between netbooks and laptops"

factoring Asus 350 dollars Eee in there - they really are the story on the laptop list.

nice to see MOTOROLA back - we have a bunch of Droid X at the office, they did a nice job on them

 

[notabadname]

Did you ever see an article in car magazine comparing BMW and KIA? I did not think so. Comparisons are conducted in respective price categories. HP and Dell do have products in the same price category as Apple and this is where comparison makes sense. One should not expect to pay three times less for a laptop and expect the same quality (or should they?) and that's not accounting for Apple Care which lately became almost a requirement.

Ahhhh . . . . . Yes, in Consumer Reports, which is the magazine I actually referenced. However, magazines such as Car and Driver also make comparisons for very different price categories. Such as Jeep versus Land Rover, or Acura MDX vs. BMW X5, Infiniti QX4, Land Rover Discovery, Lexus RX300, M-B ML320, Mitsubishi Montero (unless you are going to tell me Mitsubishi is in the same price class as the BMW - ha, ha) Additionally, much of Car and Driver's as well as Motor Trends comparisons try to keep the field fair, in that they test performance numbers; Acceleration, lateral G, top speed. So if a car is in the same performance category, they will test it against others of similar, without regard to cost. Kia, at the moment, does not make a high-performance sports sedan, so they don't get compared for a road test against each other. Not much suspense as to which car would out-handle or out-accelerate the other. A good example is of the Chevy Corvette ZR1 versus a Porsche 911 Turbo. Those vehicles, as tested were $37,000 apart in price but they still get directly compared. (Might want to check your facts before asking me a question and then answering for me).

 

[Eidorian]

Given the price of my Macbook, I was much more inclined to use the warranty much more often when possible. Everything short of the terrible display and lower case has been replaced on that notebook. The new fan is getting louder over time but it's still quieter than the original from 2007.

Apple phone and retail are painful to deal with when they're arrogant. I'd rather avoid those.

 

[HLdan]

Funny how like in those Mac commercials, (and Mac users) compare current macs to older Windows 95, 98. (Love bringing up problems that were common back then, and comparing them to current macs with core 2 duos.)

I'm user PC users compare macs with the latest Windows, whether it was Vista or XP. It's logical. Don't see why they would talk about Windows ME which came out in the year 2000 (or maybe 1999). XP came out in 2001, it was compared to mac for many years, if that makes you feel better.

I'd like you to point out which (if any) ads showed Apple comparing the latest OS X to the older Windows, ignoring the current version. The ads proved problems all the way to Vista. Nice way to make things up as you go along.

 

[MacinDoc]

Just go to ebay and search for white macbook, (not the newer ones) read the details. Virtually all of those white macbooks have similar problems. Or simply google crack macbook. These problems are not a secret, you can ask apple.

Agreed, it was a common problem in that particular Macbook model, but they represent a small part of the total number of Apple laptops, hence their relatively small impact on the survey numbers. Apple's dominance in the CR laptop reliability category waned a bit a year or two ago, likely because of this issue and a common hard drive issue. But if you look at the current picture and the overall historical picture, it becomes clear that such issues are outliers rather than the norm, and historically, over the last 10 years, Apple has topped the reliability ratings in almost every large published survey.

I would imagine that some would complain. I think even on the Apple website a lot of the stuff that Apple sells are very low rated, like 2 stars or something, but when it comes to a survey, Mac is the minority and it becomes an us against them thing, and I'm pretty sure a big chunk of them would not give Apple a low rating. For example, what I just mentioned, when I 1st bought my mac I was surprised how low the user ratings were for so many apple products, yet that doesn't reflect in the surveys.

Please justify your contention that a consumer purchasing an Apple product is more likely than one purchasing a Windows-based product to provide a misleading assessment of that product.

 

[HLdan]

I know too many people who will no longer go to that mall for any reason. The last time I watched a movie their, sealing panels fell down in the theater half way through the film.

Having the store in a very bad place is costing Apple reputation. The next time I need to get hardware fixed, I don't want to drive 200 miles to the next closest store. Like I said, the people at the OKC store are great. I would compare the staff with the NYC Midtown store. East St. Lewis is a safer place than the current OKC store location. I would prefer to walk through Harlem dressed in KKK drag waving a Confederate flag than walk around in their parking lot with a Mac Pro.

While I'm certainly not going to disagree you in terms of how bad that mall is (since I've never been there) I will say this, how a company's reputation is viewed is solely dependent upon each and every customer. Seeing as how virtually every Apple store is packed full of customers on a daily basis I don't think Apple is concerned about reputation, especially if the $$$ is flooding their cash registers.

This is the only problem I have with people that view Apple the way you do, they are not some fancy pants boutique like Tiffany's or Cartier. Yes, they do make a premium computer but they are not the Miele Vacuum of computing. I'm saying this because Miele is german made, exclusive to only select stores and locations and their products are not massed produced. Too many people look at Apple as some exclusive boutique with custom-made products from germany and they are just the opposite.
It's only YOU as the customer that's concerned about Apple's image, in the end, money takes center stage over reputation.

 

[paul4339]

....I would prefer to walk through Harlem dressed in KKK drag waving a Confederate flag than walk around in their parking lot with a Mac Pro....

hahaha.. i had to pause for a moment to imagine what this would look like...


P.

 

[seashellz]

What is particularly entertaining for me, is reading all the "PC World is so biased, these results are not credible" comments at the PC World link. I could understand the bias in "MacWorld" and other Apple centered publications, but "PC World"? The ultimate example of denial is in people who ignore results, regardless of source, if they do not support their own personal agenda.

It's like being a "Pats" fan and saying Payton Manning sucks. If you can't stand back and recognize that Manning is an amazing quarterback, regardless of your personal choices in teams, you are simply closed minded to reality and simply the one who is actually biased and lacks credibility in your evaluations.

and 90% of the whining came from caveman PC fangirls

 

[RalfTheDog]

While I'm certainly not going to disagree you in terms of how bad that mall is (since I've never been there) I will say this, how a company's reputation is viewed is solely dependent upon each and every customer. Seeing as how virtually every Apple store is packed full of customers on a daily basis I don't think Apple is concerned about reputation, especially if the $$$ is flooding their cash registers.

This is the only problem I have with people that view Apple the way you do, they are not some fancy pants boutique like Tiffany's or Cartier. Yes, they do make a premium computer but they are not the Miele Vacuum of computing. I'm saying this because Miele is german made, exclusive to only select stores and locations and their products are not massed produced. Too many people look at Apple as some exclusive boutique with custom-made products from germany and they are just the opposite.
It's only YOU as the customer that's concerned about Apple's image, in the end, money takes center stage over reputation.

Every company is concerned about reputation. I don't care if it is a thrift store or Harvard Medical. Reputation is not about exclusivity, it is about quality and not getting knifed in the back while taking your computer to your car. If too many people get mugged, raped or killed in a year at your store, people will stop purchasing things from you. Not long ago, another mall in OKC was shut down because of these kinds of things happening. The people who caused problems at the first mall are moving to the Apple mall.

 

[Peikko]

Does PCWorld not believe in numbers or something? I gave the article a quick skim and even though they state the characteristics they used to rank manufacturers I can't seem to find the actual scores and statistics. Yeah, we got feedback from 79.000 and this is what the stats mean, but you don't need to see the numbers, just trust us. I would've actually been interested to see those figures, Asus' in particular.